(07-19-2022, 10:43 AM)Nepa Wrote: Ditto. It is as if Haslam (net worth 4 billion) didn't just want to sign Watson, but also wanted to make it hard for owners without his deep pockets (i.e. Bengals) to compete come contract time. 

He did it because they were the first team Watson eliminated and they wanted back in the running and that contract, 100% guaranteed and the way it was constructed to avoid fines, was the only way.

(07-19-2022, 10:42 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Can you imagine coming out of college, then working your way up in the corporate world, then when you get ready to move into that corner office you tell them, "I'll take the position, but I want my salary guaranteed for the next 5 years regardless of if I come to work or put in any effort or not?"

Unlike the corporate world, you're allowed to quit on the spot and go elsewhere as you please unless you are under contract.
NFL players don't have that luxury.

Imagine if a NFL player just decided midseason to leave their team and go to another team. They'd be jumping ship every midseason to go join either a team that will pay them more and/or a team that actually is competing for postseason.

But yes, to your point, that's the risk you have with doing contracts.
You can have people who don't put in much/any effort once the contract is signed.

(07-19-2022, 02:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Unlike the corporate world, you're allowed to quit on the spot and go elsewhere as you please unless you are under contract.
NFL players don't have that luxury.

Imagine if a NFL player just decided midseason to leave their team and go to another team. They'd be jumping ship every midseason to go join either a team that will pay them more and/or a team that actually is competing for postseason.

But yes, to your point, that's the risk you have with doing contracts.
You can have people who don't put in much/any effort once the contract is signed.

Actually at that level non-disclosure and non-compete contract clauses are pretty standard, which pretty much locks you into the company you go with.

(07-19-2022, 04:46 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Actually at that level non-disclosure and non-compete contract clauses are pretty standard, which pretty much locks you into the company you go with.

Yep….depending on company and position within that company, you sign an employment contract (vs being an “at will” employee).

The company and the employee agree to specific terms about employment time frame (which usually can be renegotiated if both sides feel it’s mutually beneficial), scope of work, non-disclosure (usually much more restrictive than normal at will terms), etc.

If the company breaks the terms, there are payments made (golden parachutes).  If the employee breaks the contract, they usually agree not to work in the same industry for a period of time, and must pay back bonuses and maybe some salariy.

Regarding Bates, last year he admitted his play was affected by his focus on contract instead of it being on Football.  This year, it’s not different.  The longer this goes on, the less likely I think they come to terms.  Play football.  Play well enough and the money will come.  As it stands, the average salary for safeties in the NFL is $8M-$8.5M/season.  Bengals are paying Bates 50% more than that.

Top safeties make more because they play well….CONSISTENTLY.  Bates already admitted he doesn’t.  Personally, I think that’s the agent’s fault.  But, ultimately it’s Bates’ call.  If he thinks more money will make him happier somewhere else, more power to him.  Sit out the season and see where the cards fall.

Let Jessie walk. $77 million is a ton of money. I wouldn’t break the bank on this petty prima Donna


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(07-21-2022, 10:04 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: Let Jessie walk. $77 million is a ton of money. I wouldn’t break the bank on this petty prima Donna


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I would.


If he’s the only safety that can play 1 high then he’s got a rare skill that’s worth money.

We were the only team in the playoffs playing 1 safety high and we were doing it well. If we lose Bates say gooodbye to that versatility

(07-21-2022, 11:39 PM)Housh Wrote: I would.


If he’s the only safety that can play 1 high then he’s got a rare skill that’s worth money.

We were the only team in the playoffs playing 1 safety high and we were doing it well. If we lose Bates say gooodbye to that versatility

I know some think Dax Hill is a Slot Corner but they are wrong, he has great range and it is similar to Bates range.

He can tackle better and can be a ballhawk just the same, he might be an even better single high Safety for us.

I know I am saying might because he is only a rookie but Dax was drafted for this very reason for Lou's Defense.

If we pay Bates that much money, say goodbye to Ja'Marr Chase cause he will call for even more dough.

I say let Bates go and pay Tee, Burrow and Chase...

Dax Hill I bet will be the better player than Jessie Bates in the NFL.

(07-22-2022, 01:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know some think Dax Hill is a Slot Corner but they are wrong, he has great range and it is similar to Bates range.

He can tackle better and can be a ballhawk just the same, he might be an even better single high Safety for us.

I know I am saying might because he is only a rookie but Dax was drafted for this very reason for Lou's Defense.

If we pay Bates that much money, say goodbye to Ja'Marr Chase cause he will call for even more dough.

I say let Bates go and pay Tee, Burrow and Chase...

Dax Hill I bet will be the better player than Jessie Bates in the NFL.

Why would we lose Chase? He's the #2 most important guy on the team? Also we're not going to sign Higgins regardless of what Happens with Bates. The Bengals are not paying 90 Miion in Guaranteed money to one position  outside of QB.

Hill probably  can play single  High but that's not where he will thrive. Replacing Bates will not be an easy task.

(07-22-2022, 01:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know some think Dax Hill is a Slot Corner but they are wrong, he has great range and it is similar to Bates range.

He can tackle better and can be a ballhawk just the same, he might be an even better single high Safety for us.

I know I am saying might because he is only a rookie but Dax was drafted for this very reason for Lou's Defense.

If we pay Bates that much money, say goodbye to Ja'Marr Chase cause he will call for even more dough.

I say let Bates go and pay Tee, Burrow and Chase...

Dax Hill I bet will be the better player than Jessie Bates in the NFL.

i agree about hill buddy. and i'm just ready to move on from bates all together.

(07-22-2022, 01:56 PM)J24 Wrote: Why would we lose Chase? He's the #2 most important guy on the team? Also we're not going to sign Higgins regardless of what Happens with Bates. The Bengals are not paying 90 Miion in Guaranteed money to one position  outside of QB.

Hill probably  can play single  High but that's not where he will thrive. Replacing Bates will not be an easy task.

always a problem when you hit a home run on the same position 2 drafts in a row. sadly... Cant keep them all.

but overall thats good for the NFL in general i guess to help keep the talent spread out

(07-22-2022, 01:56 PM)J24 Wrote: Why would we lose Chase? He's the #2 most important guy on the team? Also we're not going to sign Higgins regardless of what Happens with Bates. The Bengals are not paying 90 Miion in Guaranteed money to one position  outside of QB.

Hill probably  can play single  High but that's not where he will thrive. Replacing Bates will not be an easy task.

Hey, you pay Bates all that money and you HAVE to pay Burrow like half a billion bucks.

Chase will be the best WR in the NFL if he keeps it up and will HAVE to be paid like it.

We will see on Tee. 

If we pay Bates all that money and he plays like he did last regular season for the rest of his career we are screwed.

I don't trust the man anymore. You go ahead and gamble on him. I won't. He made his bed.

Dax Hill WILL play better than Jessie Bates did last regular season for the rest of his long career with us. I trust this more.

(07-22-2022, 02:02 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: i agree about hill buddy. and i'm just ready to move on from bates all together.

Same here, just bad energy going on. I wish he just signed the Tag so we could trade him honestly.

(07-22-2022, 02:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hey, you pay Bates all that money and you HAVE to pay Burrow like half a billion bucks.

Chase will be the best WR in the NFL if he keeps it up and will HAVE to be paid like it.

We will see on Tee. 

If we pay Bates all that money and he plays like he did last regular season for the rest of his career we are screwed.

I don't trust the man anymore. You go ahead and gamble on him. I won't. He made his bed.

Dax Hill WILL play better than Jessie Bates did last regular season for the rest of his long career with us. I trust this more.


Same here, just bad energy going on. I wish he just signed the Tag so we could trade him honestly.

I agree with you about Hill but what's the outcome going to be now?

Do we continue with the tag and just hope that someone comes calling for a trade once he signs it or hope a team suffers an injury at safety and then offers a trade for him mid-season?

Is our front office looking at trade offers? Will any team pay him the kind of money he wants?

I'm at the point where, if we can't get him to sign the tag to trade him, just cut bait and say the hell with it.

No other team will offer him that kind of money, and, the closer we get to the season, the smaller the offers will get. Call his bluff because, like you said, he made his bed.

(07-22-2022, 03:18 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree with you about Hill but what's the outcome going to be now?

Do we continue with the tag and just hope that someone comes calling for a trade once he signs it or hope a team suffers an injury at safety and then offers a trade for him mid-season?

Is our front office looking at trade offers? Will any team pay him the kind of money he wants?

I'm at the point where, if we can't get him to sign the tag to trade him, just cut bait and say the hell with it.

No other team will offer him that kind of money, and, the closer we get to the season, the smaller the offers will get. Call his bluff because, like you said, he made his bed.

All great questions and just a great overall post Brad.

I completely agree, no point in carrying this out. We already seen how Bates plays when he has questions about a contract.

Might just have to cut bait with Bates.

(07-22-2022, 03:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All great questions and just a great overall post Brad.

I completely agree, no point in carrying this out. We already seen how Bates plays when he has questions about a contract.

Might just have to cut bait with Bates.

I don't know if the Bengals will until they can see Hill in action at FS.

If Bates isn't on the roster, the four safeties would be:
Bell (starting SS)
Hill (starting FS)
Anderson
Wilson/Henderson

Would people feel comfortable with one of Anderson, Henderson, or Wilson starting at FS if Hill were to get injured?

(07-22-2022, 04:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't know if the Bengals will until they can see Hill in action at FS.

If Bates isn't on the roster, the four safeties would be:
Bell (starting SS)
Hill (starting FS)
Anderson
Wilson/Henderson

Would people feel comfortable with one of Anderson, Henderson, or Wilson starting at FS if Hill were to get injured?

True, that is why they are probably waiting to cut Bates if that is the plan cause it looks like Bates' agent isn't 
going to budge and we sure as hell know the Bengals FO isn't going to budge. Wait and see if Dax Hill is the 
legit stud we think he can be and then we can cut ties.

On the last part, I really like Henderson. Played great last preseason. Love Tycen's upside. Wilson is a question
mark though at Safety, I think more of him as a Kick Returner and ST'er. But yeah, I think we can get by with 
those guys as backups in case Dax gets hurt.

(07-22-2022, 05:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True, that is why they are probably waiting to cut Bates if that is the plan cause it looks like Bates' agent isn't 
going to budge and we sure as hell know the Bengals FO isn't going to budge. Wait and see if Dax Hill is the 
legit stud we think he can be and then we can cut ties.

On the last part, I really like Henderson. Played great last preseason. Love Tycen's upside. Wilson is a question
mark though at Safety, I think more of him as a Kick Returner and ST'er. But yeah, I think we can get by with 
those guys as backups in case Dax gets hurt.

They aren't going to cut him.  He'll sit out till just before half way through the season so he can get paid something or he'll show up for week 1.....then likely get injured from lack of preparation.

His agent is a dumb ass.  Bates needs to fire him.

(07-22-2022, 05:22 PM)Stewy Wrote: They aren't going to cut him.  He'll sit out till just before half way through the season so he can get paid something or he'll show up for week 1.....then likely get injured from lack of preparation.

His agent is a dumb ass.  Bates needs to fire him.

As usual you are probably right Stewy.

Fire the dude Jessie and sign the extension. This would be your best move. You get paid big bucks and get to play for a 
team that is in contention for the SuperBowl every year with Joe Burrow and your brothers.

(07-22-2022, 05:22 PM)Stewy Wrote: They aren't going to cut him.  He'll sit out till just before half way through the season so he can get paid something or he'll show up for week 1.....then likely get injured from lack of preparation.

His agent is a dumb ass.  Bates needs to fire him.

I don’t think his agent is a dumb ass. Bates wants the money and that’s his prerogative. It’s his life and can’t blame him. I think he’s making a mistake for sure. Of course none of us know the figures.

This hasn't been a talking point because it's banking on a rookie panning out.

Who says Dax can't lead the defense as a rookie? It's been done before.

(07-22-2022, 04:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't know if the Bengals will until they can see Hill in action at FS.

If Bates isn't on the roster, the four safeties would be:
Bell (starting SS)
Hill (starting FS)
Anderson
Wilson/Henderson

Would people feel comfortable with one of Anderson, Henderson, or Wilson starting at FS if Hill were to get injured?

If we released Bates then we would sign a free agent Safety.

But it isn't going to happen.