Reds.com posting that was probably Castillo's last game as a Red with the Trade Deadline here. So as we wave good-bye to Castillo as some play-off team gets a good pitcher, words can not describe how much more Cincinnati Sux. Add Castillo to yet another Red Star who Reds have dumped in payroll cuts.

THE LAST PLACE Reds. Get use to those words. They will probably be THE LAST PLACE Reds again in 2023 as the whole season will be a promotion for end of season Joey Votto Retirement Day.

As for now, when Castillo goes, the Reds will win very few ball games the last 2 months. This is a team heading for a well deserved 100 loss season. Saying Good Bye to Castillo, Suarez, Winker, Disco, Gray and now Castillo in recent history, this team blows bubbles. Some even want Reds to trade Drury and really get THE SUX AWARD.

Is there any point to watching one single second of The Reds the last 2 months of this year. No. Not at all. Bring on Preseason Football as the Super Bowl AFC Champion Bengals return to the field.

(07-28-2022, 12:56 AM)kevin Wrote: Is there any point to watching one single second of The Reds the last 2 months of this year.  No.  Not at all.  Bring on Preseason Football as the Super Bowl AFC Champion Bengals return to the field.

I'll still watch Hunter Greene, Graham Ashcraft and Nick Lodolo pitch.

We have a really promising starting line up for the future with those 3 showing signs of greatness. I am excited for the future of this team, especially if we get a few premium near-majors prospects for Castillo.

Trading Castillo could also open up a spot in the rotation for Brandon Williamson, the key piece of the Winker/Suarez trade, who will likely be called up in September at the latest.

I'm personally looking forward to 2024 for the Reds because they'll be out from under two really bad contracts in Votto and Moose, assuming they buy out the 2024 options (7M for Votto and 4M for Moose, compared to their 20M salaries in 2025.)

For now, stock up on prospects, get them major league ready and have a big free agency in 2024. Hopefully, with a star studded rotation by then and enough money to fill out the batting order, we could be looking at a contending team in 2 years.

(07-28-2022, 01:27 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'll still watch Hunter Greene, Graham Ashcraft and Nick Lodolo pitch.

We have a really promising starting line up for the future with those 3 showing signs of greatness. I am excited for the future of this team, especially if we get a few premium near-majors prospects for Castillo.

Trading Castillo could also open up a spot in the rotation for Brandon Williamson, the key piece of the Winker/Suarez trade, who will likely be called up in September at the latest.

I'm personally looking forward to 2024 for the Reds because they'll be out from under two really bad contracts in Votto and Moose, assuming they buy out the 2024 options (7M for Votto and 4M for Moose, compared to their 20M salaries in 2025.)

For now, stock up on prospects, get them major league ready and have a big free agency in 2024. Hopefully, with a star studded rotation by then and enough money to fill out the batting order, we could be looking at a contending team in 2 years.

The big rumor is that the Yankees are becoming more open to trading number 2 overall prospect Oswald Peraza for Castillo. He's a SS that was previously thought to be totally off limits.  It would be a premium return with other prospects thrown in.  I'd want something else on a mid-tier top 100 prospect pitching level, and they have a couple of guys like that.  NYY is showing some serious weaknesses of late, and Castillo is precisely the kind of player they need.  I despise seeing him go because he's probably the best pitcher we've had since Soto.  That said, it would be a step forward for this organization to trade a highly-valued commodity like Castillo and not get fleeced by a bigger organization as they have in the past.

I can't stand the Castellinis and their cheap, nepotism based organizational structure, but Krall should be commended if he holds out and works a trade partner into giving up more than they initially wanted to to get Luis.  Whoever gets him will get a guy that's perhaps a second tier ace that's currently pitching like a first tier one.  The acquiring team should have to bleed out in the farm system to the point where it's painful for them.  Quality isn't free and high quality takes a premium to bring in.  

This trade should make the Reds farm system top ten in the league when the dust settles.  If it doesn't, they have failed. I look at the Astros, who basically tanked and stocked the farm system for a few years before they became a major AL power and won a title. They were an absolute joke. Then, as their prospect capital started to mature, they blossomed into a loaded team that was largely built through trading for young players, drafting well, and developing. The Reds should have done this after 2013 but they botched it by holding on to players too long. That can't happen this time.

The Reds are irrelevant in MLB. The best this franchise has is competing with the Pirates to avoid last place.

(07-28-2022, 12:56 AM)kevin Wrote:   Some even want Reds to trade Drury and really get THE SUX AWARD.

The Reds caught a huge break with Drury.  He is 29 years old with a career .733 OPS who we signed for less than a million dollars.  But right now he has a career-high OPS of .841.  He has never hit more than 16 home runs in an entire season, but he has 19 in just 87 games this year. His numbers this year are a fluke, but we will get the benefit of him having some actual trade value.  

Anything we can get for a career journeyman like him will be a bonus.

Reds need more money

(07-28-2022, 08:22 AM)samhain Wrote: The big rumor is that the Yankees are becoming more open to trading number 2 overall prospect Oswald Peraza for Castillo. He's a SS that was previously thought to be totally off limits.  It would be a premium return with other prospects thrown in.  I'd want something else on a mid-tier top 100 prospect pitching level, and they have a couple of guys like that.  NYY is showing some serious weaknesses of late, and Castillo is precisely the kind of player they need.  I despise seeing him go because he's probably the best pitcher we've had since Soto.  That said, it would be a step forward for this organization to trade a highly-valued commodity like Castillo and not get fleeced by a bigger organization as they have in the past.

I can't stand the Castellinis and their cheap, nepotism based organizational structure, but Krall should be commended if he holds out and works a trade partner into giving up more than they initially wanted to to get Luis.  Whoever gets him will get a guy that's perhaps a second tier ace that's currently pitching like a first tier one.  The acquiring team should have to bleed out in the farm system to the point where it's painful for them.  Quality isn't free and high quality takes a premium to bring in.  

This trade should make the Reds farm system top ten in the league when the dust settles.  If it doesn't, they have failed.  I look at the Astros, who basically tanked and stocked the farm system for a few years before they became a major AL power and won a title.  They were an absolute joke.  Then, as their prospect capital started to mature, they blossomed into a loaded team that was largely built through trading for young players, drafting well, and developing.  The Reds should have done this after 2013 but they botched it by holding on to players too long.  That can't happen this time.

I love the idea of getting a top prospect + some more from the Yankees, but Peraza seems like something we already have two fold in Elly De La Cruz and Matt McLain
According to MLB.com La Cruz is the 48th ranked player in the minors with the following scouting grades:
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 55 | Run: 60 | Arm: 60 | Field: 55 | Overall: 55

McLain is the 58th ranked player in the minors with the following scouting grades:
Scouting grades: Hit: 60 | Power: 50 | Run: 60 | Arm: 55 | Field: 50 | Overall: 55

Peraza is the 37th ranked player in the minors with the following scouting grades:
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 50 | Run: 60 | Arm: 60 | Field: 60 | Overall: 55 

(As an aside, baseball scouting grades are not on a 0 to 100 scale, they are on a 20 to 80 scale where 50 is considered average and 80 is considered the most elite tool you'll see, like Billy Hamilton's speed.)

So better as a fielder, worse either as a hitter or in terms of power relative to the other two.

And this may even be out of date because De La Cruz is having an incredible season, hitting near .300 in A+ and AA with 20 HRs, 28 SBs with an OPS over .900.

We could shift De La Cruz to 3rd base, so it's not a huge deal, but I'd love to see us get some high quality pitching in return for Castillo. The Yankees don't really have any pitchers in their minor league system that could qualify for that, but the Dodgers do have Bobbly Miller, the 25th ranked player in the minor leagues with the following scouting grades:
Scouting grades: Fastball: 70 | Curveball: 55 | Slider: 60 | Changeup: 60 | Control: 50 | Overall: 55 

I'd love to get a player with 4 above average pitches (I hear he even has a good 2 seamer as a 5th pitch) and average control in exchange for Castillo rather than a shortstop who may not even be the top shortstop prospect in our farm system. But, obviously, it all depends on what teams are offering.

Alternatively, I would love to get a premium outfielder like Robert Hassell III from the Padres.

No matter which way we go, we could get a really good foundational piece for the future out of this trade. It's weird to feel this excited this late in the season for exactly the wrong reason haha!

(07-28-2022, 12:56 AM)kevin Wrote: Is there any point to watching one single second of The Reds the last 2 months of this year.  No.  Not at all.  Bring on Preseason Football as the Super Bowl AFC Champion Bengals return to the field.

I agree. Go to the Jungle board for the rest of the baseball season. The reality of this team's situation appears to be a bit traumatic for you.

I remember getting into it with another board regular years ago when he wanted to build the team around Puig. I said "Trade him and get something for him." They got a month of unexpected greatness from Aquino and a season later, their only Cy Young award winner in their history. For this, I was followed around the board and had every just about every post disputed, refuted or called a liar by this poster for a week. How and why he would attach so much happiness to a player that was obviously going to be flipped at the deadline is beyond me. Puig has not played since that season.

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/reds

I somewhat agree that we don't need a shortstop. Although shortstops tend to be the best athletes with position flexibility.

Pitching would be my priority followed by another outfielder to add into the system.

Above is MLB.com's rank of the prospects

I still say maybe package Castillo with Moose or Votto to dump salary. Problem is nobody wants them.

(07-28-2022, 10:41 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I still say maybe package Castillo with Moose or Votto to dump salary. Problem is nobody wants them.

Salary dump would help a team more if they built through free agents.  Reds have been willing to sign some higher priced free agents, but we have so many holes we are going to have to re-build with cheaper younger prospects.  Then if we get to the level of a decent 80-85 win team we can go out and spend big money on one key player that could push us into the postseason.