Consider how bad our offensive line was and how Burrow was always getting hit or getting pressured and we still were the only team in the NFL to have three receivers record AT LEAST 800 YARDS!

Chase had 1,455, Higgins had 1,091, and Boyd had 828, which I think they could all go for over a thousand yards this season!

Throw in the fact that Mixon was third in the league in rushing behind that horrible line, add in Hurst, and our offense looks pretty damn dangerous for this season!

NFL Network flashed that on their screen, while also talking about our improvements on the line, and it has me getting pretty optimistic about this year!

(08-08-2022, 12:10 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Consider how bad our offensive line was and how Burrow was always getting hit or getting pressured and we still were the only team in the NFL to have three receivers record AT LEAST 800 YARDS!

Chase had 1,455, Higgins had 1,091, and Boyd had 828, which I think they could all go for over a thousand yards this season!

Throw in the fact that Mixon was third in the league in rushing behind that horrible line, add in Hurst, and our offense looks pretty damn dangerous for this season!

NFL Network flashed that on their screen, while also talking about our improvements on the line, and it has me getting pretty optimistic about this year!

It was interesting when we were debating this subject last year at this time.  I had Boyd getting the most receptions but the least yardage.  If teams try to take away the big plays, this year that could be true.  He and Hurst could kill you in 10 yard, high %, receptions but the better line play could also allow for more deep shots/routes.  

Boyd's season was odd.  He had some solid games, but there were some where he was barely involved at all.  One reception against Detroit and the first Cleveland game, and just two in the blowout win over pitt.  I think a big key to this season is for Burrow to continue to just attack the weak spot on the opposing team and not try to force the ball to Chase.  Sure, on big down and distances Chase will be the #1 receiver, and they are going to move him around and possibly even use him out of the backfield, but Boyd, Hurst, Mixon/Evans, and maybe even Sample will be relied upon a great deal to move the chains.  

It's crazy how fast things can change in the NFL. 2020 when it looked like we were gonna struggle to get a win I pointed out to friends that in 2015 we were the last undefeated team. I had a lot of despair about the future. I never would've imagined two seasons later we go to the superbowl. I was saying that the 2020 team had talent and I'm glad we've added the right pieces to let that talent show. Hopefully the talent we've added only continues that trend.


On a side note I thought Tee was changing his # to 8? But he's still wearing 85 in camp. Is he no longer changing #'so? Or does that happen at the first game?

This is just a product of health and a bit of cherry picking. If you include TEs, other teams did this as well. Tampa Bay and Dallas both had three guys above 800 yards. The Chargers, surprisingly, did not despite Herbert throwing for over 5k yards. The Rams would have done it if Robert Woods would have stayed healthy, as he was on pace for 1,050 yards. That being said, Cincinnati is at bare minimum in the conversation for best WR room in the league. I personally think they have the best room. I am really looking forward to the season.

(08-08-2022, 08:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It was interesting when we were debating this subject last year at this time.  I had Boyd getting the most receptions but the least yardage.  If teams try to take away the big plays, this year that could be true.  He and Hurst could kill you in 10 yard, high %, receptions but the better line play could also allow for more deep shots/routes.  

Boyd's season was odd.  He had some solid games, but there were some where he was barely involved at all.  One reception against Detroit and the first Cleveland game, and just two in the blowout win over pitt.  I think a big key to this season is for Burrow to continue to just attack the weak spot on the opposing team and not try to force the ball to Chase.  Sure, on big down and distances Chase will be the #1 receiver, and they are going to move him around and possibly even use him out of the backfield, but Boyd, Hurst, Mixon/Evans, and maybe even Sample will be relied upon a great deal to move the chains.  

This is a good point. I even brought up myself if this team could handle adding Chase from an ego perspective because he would become the # 1. I think Boyd handled well because while he did have some good games there were a lot like you pointed out where he was irrelevant to non existent. I do remember at least a couple times throughout the season where Burrow would get sacked and the announcer would point out if he just had a second more he had an open man. Then on the replay it was Boyd on a long developing route that right when he's coming open Burrow gets sacked. So hopefully the new pieces on the online can allow him to really spread that ball around. 

(08-08-2022, 09:43 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is just a product of health and a bit of cherry picking Cincinnati. If you include TEs, other teams did this as well. Tampa Bay and Dallas both had three guys above 800 yards. The Chargers, surprisingly, did not despite Herbert throwing for over 5k yards. The Rams would have done it if Robert Woods would have stayed healthy, as he was on pace for 1,050 yards. That being said, Cincinnati is at bare minimum in the conversation for best WR room in the league. I personally think they have the best room. I am really looking forward to the season.

Here's my question....

Usomah had 493 yards last season. If the line protects better, can Hurst get to 800? This would give the Bengals 4 guys with 800+.

I would contend that NO, he wouldn't. At least, not with the other 3 still getting over 800. Where's why: I believe the Bengals want to and WILL run the ball more and more effectively IF the O line is better. This will cut down on drop backs quite a bit and/or open up the screen game.

I also don't think the TE is featured in what the Bengals are running as a general concept. The TE is more of an outlet or a player where the play is adapted to roll that way at the line after checks and adjustments are made. More of an opportunistic position in the ZT/Burrow/LSU style offense than a featured guy.

My guess is that a stronger O line would make Hurst a strong red zone target and 3rd down guy more than an every play option. Especially since he isn't a strong blocker and wouldn't be on the field on every down.

(08-08-2022, 09:43 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is just a product of health and a bit of cherry picking Cincinnati. If you include TEs, other teams did this as well. Tampa Bay and Dallas both had three guys above 800 yards. The Chargers, surprisingly, did not despite Herbert throwing for over 5k yards. The Rams would have done it if Robert Woods would have stayed healthy, as he was on pace for 1,050 yards. That being said, Cincinnati is at bare minimum in the conversation for best WR room in the league. I personally think they have the best room. I am really looking forward to the season.

Honestly that was my exact first thought. But while I am very hopeful for another healthy season I think our receivers could step into the #1 role if forced. Hopefully we find that solid 4th WR that could step up if needed. I think it's gonna have to be Hurst or one of the UDFA's because I don't think it's Thomas or Morgan. Could possibly Taylor although I think his ceiling might be lower just due to size and speed restrictions. Come on Kendrick Pryor. 

(08-08-2022, 09:54 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Here's my question....

Usomah had 493 yards last season. If the line protects better, can Hurst get to 800? This would give the Bengals 4 guys with 800+.

I would contend that NO, he wouldn't. At least, not with the other 3 still getting over 800. Where's why: I believe the Bengals want to and WILL run the ball more and more effectively IF the O line is better. This will cut down on drop backs quite a bit and/or open up the screen game.

I also don't think the TE is featured in what the Bengals are running as a general concept. The TE is more of an outlet or a player where the play is adapted to roll that way at the line after checks and adjustments are made. More of an opportunistic position in the ZT/Burrow/LSU style offense than a featured guy.

My guess is that a stronger O line would make Hurst a strong red zone target and 3rd down guy more than an every play option. Especially since he isn't a strong blocker and wouldn't be on the field on every down.

I don't think Cincinnati will run the ball more - I fully expect them to continue doing what they were doing. They have Burrow, Chase, Higgins and Boyd. They have a Ferrari passing game that isn't going to stay together for much longer. Cincinnati passed the ball 59% of the time last season, good for 13th in the league. I think that will stay roughly the same, if not increase slightly. Towards the end of the season, Cincinnati was really chucking the ball around, passing the ball 66% of the time. That obviously led to a Super Bowl appearance, and nearly a victory. 

Mixon is good, don't get me wrong. I expect him to have a great season. However, passing the ball correlates much better to points scored than running does, and points scored correlates highly to victories. It is boring to say this, because RBs are cool, but RBs aren't very important to team success. QB performance is the single largest indicator of team success - RB performance barely matters at all, even for guys like Derrick Henry.

In regard to Hurst, I really think he is going to replace Uzomah's production. Neither guys are world beaters, but are good enough to do some damage as an outlet player. 

(08-08-2022, 09:54 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Here's my question....

Usomah had 493 yards last season. If the line protects better, can Hurst get to 800? This would give the Bengals 4 guys with 800+.

I would contend that NO, he wouldn't. At least, not with the other 3 still getting over 800. Where's why: I believe the Bengals want to and WILL run the ball more and more effectively IF the O line is better. This will cut down on drop backs quite a bit and/or open up the screen game.

I also don't think the TE is featured in what the Bengals are running as a general concept. The TE is more of an outlet or a player where the play is adapted to roll that way at the line after checks and adjustments are made. More of an opportunistic position in the ZT/Burrow/LSU style offense than a featured guy.

My guess is that a stronger O line would make Hurst a strong red zone target and 3rd down guy more than an every play option. Especially since he isn't a strong blocker and wouldn't be on the field on every down.

I love Uzomah. But of his 493 and 5 tds. Something like almost 300yds and 4tds came in 2 games. So he had 200 yds and 1td the rest of the way. He definitely did more than receiving for the team with blocking, Humor and the power of positive thinking. But if early indications from camp can be trusted they look to be running plays designed for Hurst. So they either look at him more as a receiver or maybe realize that TE was an under utilized part of the offense and hopefully want to get more out of it.

I'm not too worried about TE and wanted Uzomah back but not for the money he got. When he left and I looked at the free agents I wanted Hurst. So I'm glad they got him.

(08-08-2022, 10:06 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I don't think Cincinnati will run the ball more - I fully expect them to continue doing what they were doing. They have Burrow, Chase, Higgins and Boyd. They have a Ferrari passing game that isn't going to stay together for much longer. Cincinnati passed the ball 59% of the time last season, good for 13th in the league. I think that will stay roughly the same, if not increase slightly. Towards the end of the season, Cincinnati was really chucking the ball around, passing the ball 66% of the time. That obviously led to a Super Bowl appearance, and nearly a victory. 

Mixon is good, don't get me wrong. I expect him to have a great season. However, passing the ball correlates much better to points scored than running does, and points scored correlates highly to victories. It is boring to say this, because RBs are cool, but RBs aren't very important to team success. QB performance is the single largest indicator of team success - RB performance barely matters at all, even for guys like Derrick Henry.

In regard to Hurst, I really think he is going to replace Uzomah's production. Neither guys are world beaters, but are good enough to do some damage as an outlet player. 

"More" may be the wrong terminology I used. More successfully is what I meant.

More successfully, to me, would = shorter down and distance plays. They may throw for 3 yards instead of needing 8+. How many times did we see negative runs walk back yardage previously gained? I feel like it was a ton. This created longer pass plays being utilized. With a strong O line, I don't know if that trend of longer down and distance continues.

(08-08-2022, 10:14 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I love Uzomah. But of his 493 and 5 tds. Something like almost 300yds and 4tds came in 2 games. So he had 200 yds and 1td the rest of the way. He definitely did more than receiving for the team with blocking, Humor and the power of positive thinking. But if early indications from camp can be trusted they look to be running plays designed for Hurst. So they either look at him more as a receiver or maybe realize that TE was an under utilized part of the offense and hopefully want to get more out of it.

I'm not too worried about TE and wanted Uzomah back but not for the money he got. When he left and I looked at the free agents I wanted Hurst. So I'm glad they got him.

Great stats and great points.

I'll be interested in seeing if they open up things at the TE spot. More consistency from the TE position would be interesting to see!

CJ was fine but overpriced this year and the Bengals made the right decision in letting him walk and bringing in Hurst.

Plus CJ was trying to be the leader ion a team that already has a natural leader in Joe Burrow. Seems Joe had to correct him twice about what he was saying publicly as well.

Think Zac may have let this happen for this very reason too. The Bengals seemed to not try very hard to keep CJ.

The Bengals offense & personnel, as constructed, aren't needing Hurst or any TE to put him big numbers. They just need Hurst to be ready as a go-to option when Burrow makes the read that the ball needs to go to the TE. I think we'll be pleasantly surprised with his production. Is he on a one-year deal? I bet the dude gets paid in '23 free agency and will have Burrow to thank.

(08-08-2022, 09:54 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Here's my question....

Usomah had 493 yards last season. If the line protects better, can Hurst get to 800? This would give the Bengals 4 guys with 800+.

I would contend that NO, he wouldn't. At least, not with the other 3 still getting over 800. Where's why: I believe the Bengals want to and WILL run the ball more and more effectively IF the O line is better. This will cut down on drop backs quite a bit and/or open up the screen game.

I also don't think the TE is featured in what the Bengals are running as a general concept. The TE is more of an outlet or a player where the play is adapted to roll that way at the line after checks and adjustments are made. More of an opportunistic position in the ZT/Burrow/LSU style offense than a featured guy.

My guess is that a stronger O line would make Hurst a strong red zone target and 3rd down guy more than an every play option. Especially since he isn't a strong blocker and wouldn't be on the field on every down.

If Hurst were to get 800+ along with all the other guys getting at least what they got last year, you're looking at...
Over 5100 yards.

It's possible to get that high, as Tom Brady put up 5316 last year, but you're also probably looking at less rushing too.
TB was the only QB to put up 5100 yards or more.
Fournette last year put up only 812 rush yards but still at 4.5 YPA. He rushed about 100 times less than Mixon did.
TB was 1st in passing attempts but 31st in rushing attempts.

If the Bengals are going to stay balanced, I doubt Burrow reaches 5000 yards.
But I think he could hit 4700-4800.

My approximate yard estimates:
Chase - 1250 yards
Higgins - 1000 yards
Boyd - 900 yards
Hurst - 600 yards
Mixon - 350 yards
--------------------
4100 yards between the major contributors.

The non-top-5 receivers added another 625 yards last year, so I can see another 600-700 in that area too.
Would get right to 4700-4800.

(08-08-2022, 10:06 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I don't think Cincinnati will run the ball more - I fully expect them to continue doing what they were doing. They have Burrow, Chase, Higgins and Boyd. They have a Ferrari passing game that isn't going to stay together for much longer. Cincinnati passed the ball 59% of the time last season, good for 13th in the league. I think that will stay roughly the same, if not increase slightly. Towards the end of the season, Cincinnati was really chucking the ball around, passing the ball 66% of the time. That obviously led to a Super Bowl appearance, and nearly a victory. 

Mixon is good, don't get me wrong. I expect him to have a great season. However, passing the ball correlates much better to points scored than running does, and points scored correlates highly to victories. It is boring to say this, because RBs are cool, but RBs aren't very important to team success. QB performance is the single largest indicator of team success - RB performance barely matters at all, even for guys like Derrick Henry.

In regard to Hurst, I really think he is going to replace Uzomah's production. Neither guys are world beaters, but are good enough to do some damage as an outlet player. 

I agree, I don't think they'll run the ball more. But I feel the production/YPC could and probably should go up. And I'm with you to on Hurst. I don't think he's going to blow CJ's stats out of the water. They may go up a bit over CJ, few more TD's perhaps ? But like the running game I could see better production.

(08-08-2022, 11:04 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If Hurst were to get 800+ along with all the other guys getting at least what they got last year, you're looking at...
Over 5100 yards.

It's possible to get that high, as Tom Brady put up 5316 last year, but you're also probably looking at less rushing too.
TB was the only QB to put up 5100 yards or more.
Fournette last year put up only 812 rush yards but still at 4.5 YPA. He rushed about 100 times less than Mixon did.
TB was 1st in passing attempts but 31st in rushing attempts.

If the Bengals are going to stay balanced, I doubt Burrow reaches 5000 yards.
But I think he could hit 4700-4800.

My approximate yard estimates:
Chase - 1250 yards
Higgins - 1000 yards
Boyd - 900 yards
Hurst - 600 yards
Mixon - 350 yards
--------------------
4100 yards between the major contributors.

The non-top-5 receivers added another 625 yards last year, so I can see another 600-700 in that area too.
Would get right to 4700-4800.

I'd bet that's pretty close. I may give Chase a bit more ?

(08-08-2022, 11:04 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If Hurst were to get 800+ along with all the other guys getting at least what they got last year, you're looking at...
Over 5100 yards.

It's possible to get that high, as Tom Brady put up 5316 last year, but you're also probably looking at less rushing too.
TB was the only QB to put up 5100 yards or more.
Fournette last year put up only 812 rush yards but still at 4.5 YPA. He rushed about 100 times less than Mixon did.
TB was 1st in passing attempts but 31st in rushing attempts.

If the Bengals are going to stay balanced, I doubt Burrow reaches 5000 yards.
But I think he could hit 4700-4800.

My approximate yard estimates:
Chase - 1250 yards
Higgins - 1000 yards
Boyd - 900 yards
Hurst - 600 yards
Mixon - 350 yards
--------------------
4100 yards between the major contributors.

The non-top-5 receivers added another 625 yards last year, so I can see another 600-700 in that area too.
Would get right to 4700-4800.

Thanks for the #'s it puts it into perspective and should help me temper expectations. But as I hop completely onto the hype train seeing those skill players. Could we see Burrow and the Bengals lead the league in these stats this seasons. Or dare I say set a new record? What is the record?

Taylor does love to throw it a ton even at times we shouldn't be. I'd prefer more balanced but if we just get more quality runs from Mixon it might be a less equals more situation.

(08-08-2022, 02:09 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Thanks for the #'s it puts it into perspective and should help me temper expectations. But as I hop completely onto the hype train seeing those skill players. Could we see Burrow and the Bengals lead the league in these stats this seasons. Or dare I say set a new record? What is the record?

2013 Peyton Manning - 5477 yards, 55 pass TDs

(08-08-2022, 02:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: 2013 Peyton Manning - 5477 yards, 55 pass TDs

I just looked it up. The yards to me seem more achievable than the TDS. 55 would be a hard number to reach.

(08-08-2022, 10:06 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I don't think Cincinnati will run the ball more - I fully expect them to continue doing what they were doing. They have Burrow, Chase, Higgins and Boyd. They have a Ferrari passing game that isn't going to stay together for much longer. Cincinnati passed the ball 59% of the time last season, good for 13th in the league. I think that will stay roughly the same, if not increase slightly. Towards the end of the season, Cincinnati was really chucking the ball around, passing the ball 66% of the time. That obviously led to a Super Bowl appearance, and nearly a victory. 

Mixon is good, don't get me wrong. I expect him to have a great season. However, passing the ball correlates much better to points scored than running does, and points scored correlates highly to victories. It is boring to say this, because RBs are cool, but RBs aren't very important to team success. QB performance is the single largest indicator of team success - RB performance barely matters at all, even for guys like Derrick Henry.

In regard to Hurst, I really think he is going to replace Uzomah's production. Neither guys are world beaters, but are good enough to do some damage as an outlet player. 

I think we run the ball 

Mixon was tenth(?) in YPC for running backs with at least 200 carries, so imagine how much better he'll be with a line that can block and defenses not being able to just load the box because they know that they need to keep safeties and backers back because Burrow will have time to drop back and scan the field!

Also, we'll have more possessions and we'll want to run the ball to protect Burrow from having to drop back so much. We'll also want to control the clock and keep defenses from just teeing off on the pass rush. Sustaining drives and moving the chains is the way to keep the opposing offense off the field, keep your defense resting, and control the game. As good as Burrow is, it also limits turnovers.

As far as Hurst, I think he'll be better than CJ, even though CJ was good, just because Burrow will have more time and defenses will be so spread out that he'll be open more.

(08-08-2022, 10:43 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: The Bengals offense & personnel, as constructed, aren't needing Hurst or any TE to put him big numbers. They just need Hurst to be ready as a go-to option when Burrow makes the read that the ball needs to go to the TE. I think we'll be pleasantly surprised with his production. Is he on a one-year deal? I bet the dude gets paid in '23 free agency and will have Burrow to thank.

I agree that we won't need Hurst to put up big numbers but I think he'll be a good safety valve and a great weapon when defenses try to guard our other weapons.