(08-08-2022, 05:25 PM)tms Wrote: I put Burrow at #1. No other QB could will his team to victory. Don't get me wrong, they were good (at least some of them were good) but they never possessed that magic. The others had talent... but never that magic.

I taking nothing awY from Burrow he put us on a great ride especially last 5 games of season did a rewatch over weekend of our playoff win and the star of the 3 games was our defense. 

Anderson
Boomer
Burrow
Dalton
Palmer

*Joe Burrow* I have little to no doubt he'll be my #1 soon.

2. Kenny Anderson My all time favorite Bengal
3. Boomer Esiason - Made the late 80's and 90 a lot of fun.
4. Andy Dalton - he did a lot for the circumstances he had.
5. Carson Palmer - what might have been if not for that play.
6. Greg Cook - He was before my time but man another what might have been.
8. Jeff Blake - Was one of the few Bright spots on some awful 90's teams.
9. Jon Kitna - Just a solid QB again on some not so great teams.
10. Ryan Finley - It was just one game but it made me smile for a week.

(08-08-2022, 09:23 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: *Joe Burrow* I have little to no doubt he'll be my #1 soon.

2. Kenny Anderson My all time favorite Bengal
3. Boomer Esiason - Made the late 80's and 90 a lot of fun.
4. Andy Dalton - he did a lot for the circumstances he had.
5. Carson Palmer - what might have been if not for that play.
6. Greg Cook - He was before my time but man another what might have been.
8. Jeff Blake - Was one of the few Bright spots on some awful 90's teams.
9. Jon Kitna - Just a solid QB again on some not so great teams.
10. Ryan Finley - It was just one game but it made me smile for a week.

Rep for the Vanilla Vick shout-out. May that smile live on in our hearts forever.

(08-08-2022, 08:38 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I taking nothing awY from Burrow he put us on a great ride especially last 5 games of season did a rewatch over weekend of our playoff win and the star of the 3 games was our defense. 

Yeah, I think he's an elevator. Not just of receivers, but of the team more broadly (including the defense). There's no other way to explain the leap made last year, or the fact that so many dudes played through debilitating injury... Wilson, Hendrickson, Mixon, Higgins to name but a few. That's the magic I'm talking about. The "it" factor. He's totally unique in that regard. These Bengals would run through walls for Joe Burrow. The other QBs were good players but they never came with that kind of multiplier.

(08-08-2022, 10:14 PM)tms Wrote: Yeah, I think he's an elevator. Not just of receivers, but of the team more broadly (including the defense). There's no other way to explain the leap made last year, or the fact that so many dudes played through debilitating injury... Wilson, Hendrickson, Mixon, Higgins to name but a few. That's the magic I'm talking about. The "it" factor. He's totally unique in that regard. These Bengals would run through walls for Joe Burrow. The other QBs were good players but they never came with that kind of multiplier.

Could we not say that about Zac, sorry that is a bridge too far for me , I'm just statiing fact our defense dominated when it most counted in 2nd half, total of 19 points in 3 games.  We actually were a very healthy team last year overall, 

(08-08-2022, 04:51 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I don't believe it would change the results. Era adjusting is just figuring out their relative performance and then bringing modern day statistics into it. I used Z-Score as my methodology, but I believe there are others. It's not fundamentally changing how they play, it is just providing a modern lens on historical data. Having a passer rating of 98 isn't that impressive today, but doing it when the league average was 72.6 is phenomenal. 

What you are referring to would be best fit for a simulation with adjusted metrics.

Thank you for the education. 

(08-08-2022, 11:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:

---

Could we not say that about Zac, sorry that is a bridge too far for me , I'm just statiing fact our defense dominated when it most counted in 2nd half, total of 19 points in 3 games.  We actually were a very healthy team last year overall, 

I wouldn't say that about Zac because he's a coach. He's also been here for years. Last year was Burrow's first full season. Playing hobbled to boot. It's hard to call it an anomaly since it was an extension of his record-setting play in college. Rather than a "bridge too far," I see it as the simplest explanation.

Game recognize game: 

https://twitter.com/kingjames/status/1306763569011273728

The GOATs in other sports never spoke like that about Boomer or KA. Ever. It's not a referendum on legends like them, either. They were solid, even great. They each won an MVP. But what we're seeing now is unprecedented.

(08-08-2022, 11:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Could we not say that about Zac, sorry that is a bridge too far for me , I'm just statiing fact our defense dominated when it most counted in 2nd half, total of 19 points in 3 games. We actually were a very healthy team last year overall,

Not in the playoffs, they weren’t.

The media continues to push narratives that the Bengals only went on a run because they were the healthiest team

It’s flat out incorrect and not factual @sportsdocmatt who utilized “Banged Up Score” noted the Bengals were the 10th healthiest team in the playoffs #RuleTheJungle pic.twitter.com/DBmJ6czJev

— Just Eric (@JUSTERIC__) August 5, 2022

(08-08-2022, 11:47 PM)tms Wrote: Game recognize game: 

https://twitter.com/kingjames/status/1306763569011273728

The GOATs in other sports never spoke like that about Boomer or KA. Ever. It's not a referendum on legends like them, either. They were solid, even great. They each won an MVP. But what we're seeing now is unprecedented.

Seriously?

LeBron did not even say Burrow was top 5.

That is your proof of Burrow's greatness?

(08-09-2022, 11:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Seriously?

LeBron did not even say Burrow was top 5.

That is your proof of Burrow's greatness?

I've never seen LeBron praise Peyton Manning. Guess that settles that. 

(08-09-2022, 12:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not in the playoffs, they weren’t.

The media continues to push narratives that the Bengals only went on a run because they were the healthiest team

It’s flat out incorrect and not factual @sportsdocmatt who utilized “Banged Up Score” noted the Bengals were the 10th healthiest team in the playoffs #RuleTheJungle pic.twitter.com/DBmJ6czJev

— Just Eric (@JUSTERIC__) August 5, 2022

Our top end players were very healthy , I don't think chase higgins boyds Mixon with Burrow missed anytime,  CJ yes but not a critical piece. Defense outside of ine very he
Healthy with our starters and depth showed with Hill co.ing up big in playoffs. 

(08-08-2022, 09:23 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: *Joe Burrow* I have little to no doubt he'll be my #1 soon.

2. Kenny Anderson My all time favorite Bengal
3. Boomer Esiason - Made the late 80's and 90 a lot of fun.
4. Andy Dalton - he did a lot for the circumstances he had.
5. Carson Palmer - what might have been if not for that play.
6. Greg Cook - He was before my time but man another what might have been.
8. Jeff Blake - Was one of the few Bright spots on some awful 90's teams.
9. Jon Kitna - Just a solid QB again on some not so great teams.
10. Ryan Finley - It was just one game but it made me smile for a week.

going only based on QBs I've actually seen play:

1. Joe Burrow - obvs
2. Boomer Esiason - anyone else still remember this Diet Coke commercial featuring Boomer and other NFL players? They were literally melting in the sun, Boomer comes to their rescue by throwing Diet Coke bottles football style to them. Commercial ends with Boomer melting, just out of reach of a Diet Coke bottle saying, "Guys? Guys?!"
3. Carson Palmer pre-injury - arguably a top 5 QB in the league
4. Andy Dalton - got and gets shit on way too much, though rightfullly so in regards to play performance
5. Carson Palmer post-injury - just wasn't the same on the Bengals post-injury
6. Jeff Blake - was my favorite player until the Marvin Lewis years. Those deep passes he threw are still some of the prettiest passes I've EVER seen
7. Jon Kitna - Dude had intensity; I remember him getting fired up at the refs during a game against the Steelers. It was great to see.

(08-10-2022, 10:38 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Our top end players were very healthy , I don't think chase higgins boyds Mixon with Burrow missed anytime,  CJ yes but not a critical piece. Defense outside of ine very he
Healthy with our starters and depth showed with Hill co.ing up big in playoffs. 

It takes into account not only missing starters (Reiff, Ogunjobi), but also key guys playing through serious injuries. Like Tee and Logan Wilson - who both required surgery during the offseason.

(08-10-2022, 10:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It takes into account not only missing starters (Reiff, Ogunjobi), but also key guys playing through serious injuries. Like Tee and Logan Wilson - who both required surgery during the offseason.

Then it is pretty meaningless.  Tee Higgins absolutely killed it in the postseason.

(08-10-2022, 11:00 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then it is pretty meaningless.  Tee Higgins absolutely killed it in the postseason.

I just threw those two out there as examples of players I know who played with significant injuries. Logan Wilson played well, too for the most part. Doesn’t mean they couldn’t have played even better had they been healthy.

Also, Tee did have a pretty bad game against the Raiders if we’re being honest. And his big play against Ramsey in the Super Bowl shouldn’t even have counted.

Im going to try to add some insight to the Anderson vs Burrow debate. Easier said than done cause of some really thought out answers. Phew here we go.
Anderson played in a era where defenses has less rules
Placed on them. Ilegal contact wasnt as called as much on Players at the 2nd and 3rd levels.
Very simply, Anderson had smaller throwing windows to thread a pass into.
Burrow has the luxury of offenses now, the rules
Are slanted more toward offenses to prosper.
Its much easier to complete a higher % of throws downfield.

In addition Anderson faced alot more defenses with HoF
Players....the Steel Curtain twice a year. The Orange Crush.
The Raiders defenses led by Ted Hendricks.
Even the Browns had solid units in that era.
The Colts had a legit defense from 1975 to 77.
The Jets and the NY Sack Exchange were terrors
The NFC had the Doonsday Defense...the Purple People Eaters
(Who Anderson dissected in 74).

Anderson also played for 5 coaches and a handful of
OCs..Burrow has had more stabilty.

So in essence while I believe Joe Burrow will achieve
A,many a great things as a Bengals.
Ken Anderson played in.era known for defenses being the headliners. His one.constant threat on offense was Issac Curtis. Other than that, he had a revolving door at WR.
Every few years he had establish chemistry with new WRs
And RBs.

(08-10-2022, 10:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It takes into account not only missing starters (Reiff, Ogunjobi), but also key guys playing through serious injuries. Like Tee and Logan Wilson - who both required surgery during the offseason.

I'm a bit critical of this methodology, but I guess it is one. Tee was healthy enough to have nearly three straight 100 yard games, Logan played every game and played very well. I guess Burrow is also included in this methodology, even though he didn't miss a game and played well throughout the playoffs. Most of Cincinnati's missed timed in the playoffs were from back-end or rotational guys. Guys like Tate, Fry, Bachie, ADG, Phillips. 

I would classify the Bengals as very fortunate with health last season but some people don't agree with that. I'm personally hoping that Cincinnati can replicate that fortune this season. 

(08-10-2022, 11:00 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then it is pretty meaningless.  Tee Higgins absolutely killed it in the postseason.

Actually, listening to the explanation of what goes into the BUS - I seriously doubt Tee and Logan knocked it down at all. Considering performance factors in.

https://youtu.be/S2bmzvJ-0cw

Regardless, the Bengals were still only the 10th healthiest team in the playoffs (which was my original point). That goes against the “luck” narrative. The Bills and Chiefs were the 2 healthiest teams, and neither made it to the Super Bowl.

(08-10-2022, 11:18 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm a bit critical of this methodology, but I guess it is one. Tee was healthy enough to have nearly three straight 100 yard games, Logan played every game and played very well. I guess Burrow is also included in this methodology, even though he didn't miss a game and played well throughout the playoffs. Most of Cincinnati's missed timed in the playoffs were from back-end or rotational guys. Guys like Tate, Fry, Bachie, ADG, Phillips.

I would classify the Bengals as very fortunate with health last season but some people don't agree with that. I'm personally hoping that Cincinnati can replicate that fortune this season. 

And our starting RT, and starting 3T.

Here’s the breakdown of what goes into the score.

https://youtu.be/S2bmzvJ-0cw