(08-13-2022, 08:44 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: People saying stuff like “wasn’t too impressed with Spain anyways”, but his pff score was right around Cappa’s, and nobody is bashing that dude

Yeah. Spain is fine. He shouldn't be your 2nd best OL, but as your 5th best...fine!

Seriously though...teams don't seem interested in signing him. Seems surprising to me.

(08-13-2022, 08:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why the upgraded other spots on the OL, and penciled Carman in as the starter...I don't get.

Depth is a big issue on the line too. When healthy, it should be good...but guys like Collins historically miss chunks of games.

Collins has actually played in at least 15 games in half of his seasons, and only missed 5 games last year because of the suspension.

But I agree, they need better OL depth. Especially if D’Ante Smith can never get on the field.

'Smart of the Bengals to take things slowly with Collins, who has a checkered injury history as it is. He missed five games last year and only started in 11 of the Cowboys’ 18 total games a year ago. He also missed the entire 2020 season, and had another year, 2016, where he appeared in only three games.'

https://www.on3.com/news/lael-collins-placed-on-nfi-list-due-to-pre-existing-injury/

(08-13-2022, 09:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: 'Smart of the Bengals to take things slowly with Collins, who has a checkered injury history as it is. He missed five games last year and only started in 11 of the Cowboys’ 18 total games a year ago. He also missed the entire 2020 season, and had another year, 2016, where he appeared in only three games.'

https://www.on3.com/news/lael-collins-placed-on-nfi-list-due-to-pre-existing-injury/

Again, the bold was due to suspension, not injury. But fair enough on 2020. I missed that looking at his starts.

I definitely wish we had had some better depth. But it seems to be a league wide issue tbf. Which is why you see a team trade for a guy like Billy Price.

(08-13-2022, 08:44 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: People saying stuff like “wasn’t too impressed with Spain anyways”, but his pff score was right around Cappa’s, and nobody is bashing that dude

Kinda hard to stand out when your center to your right is getting his ass handed to him every other play

Some of us love ripping on Spain because of one play in the Super Bowl. Love love love. We've taken Ted Lasso's "Be a goldfish" mantra to heart. It's like the rest of the season never happened lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PmX7zEUg_w&ab_channel=CoachLasso

(08-13-2022, 11:05 PM)tms Wrote: Some of us love ripping on Spain because of one play in the Super Bowl. Love love love. We've taken Ted Lasso's "Be a goldfish" mantra to heart. It's like the rest of the season never happened lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PmX7zEUg_w&ab_channel=CoachLasso

I've always liked Spain and hope the sign him back. He can take Adeniji's place as far as I'm concerned. I don't think there is any hope for that guy.

(08-13-2022, 09:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Again, the bold was due to suspension, not injury. But fair enough on 2020. I missed that looking at his starts.

I definitely wish we had had some better depth. But it seems to be a league wide issue tbf. Which is why you see a team trade for a guy like Billy Price.

Price actually improved with the Giants. Cedar O actually improved when he left here.

The Cowboys had a loaded line and fired Pollack. Although they hired Alexander.

Maybe coaching is still an issue here with the line?

What's the last olineman outside of a top 10-15 pick that we developed?

(08-13-2022, 09:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Again, the bold was due to suspension, not injury. But fair enough on 2020. I missed that looking at his starts.

I definitely wish we had had some better depth. But it seems to be a league wide issue tbf. Which is why you see a team trade for a guy like Billy Price.

I think the line will be good...but there's still some scenarios where 2 guys miss time and we struggle at 3 spots.

I sure hope that doesn't happen, but I doubt they are all healthy.

Jonah misses chunks of games too at times.

(08-13-2022, 09:10 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: This.  At this point, Carman looks as if he has not improved and our overall OL depth looks really shaky.  It just looked like they were getting their asses kicked all over the place.

Better just bring Spain in and quit wasting time.

If they don’t improve, maybe they’re not the problem.

(08-14-2022, 11:35 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: If they don’t improve, maybe they’re not the problem.

That's what it points too. Then they improve on other teams.

(08-14-2022, 11:33 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What's the last olineman outside of a top 10-15 pick that we developed?

Zeitler and Boling. In other words - it’s been a while.

(08-14-2022, 11:33 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Price actually improved with the Giants. Cedar O actually improved when he left here.

(08-14-2022, 11:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Then they improve on other teams.

No they did not improve.

Ogbuehi has been on 3 teams in three years with only 4 starts since leaving the Bengals 

Price is not even on an NFL roster.

Where do you come up with this crazy shit?

(08-13-2022, 09:10 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: This.  At this point, Carman looks as if he has not improved and our overall OL depth looks really shaky.  It just looked like they were getting their asses kicked all over the place.

Better just bring Spain in and quit wasting time.

I know it is only one game, but it was the chance (as the only starter playing) to shine for Carman and inconsistencies and bad technique were all over the place.  If they don't bring in Spain, you can bet this week we will see Volson get some snaps with the first team. 

I'm also incredibly disappointed that D'Ante Smith isn't playing due to yet another injury.  He was the one guy that showed some promise when he played, but it appears he will just never be able to stay on the field.  

(08-14-2022, 11:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's what it points too. Then they improve on other teams.

Billy Price was still plenty bad last season. The Giants haven’t even re-signed him. In fact, no one has. Cedric Ogbuehi is now on his 5th team since leaving the Bengals. And last season he was even cut from the Titans practice squad.

(08-13-2022, 09:31 AM)BacknDaDey Wrote: Wow...Spain was the scapegoat that supposedly was the cause of losing the SB on the Bengals last play.  What a difference 6 months makes now wanting him to return.

That was one play against the best DT in the game.  Spain should have forced him inside, where he had help with Hopkins, but he made a mistake.  

I think the biggest injustice in that drive was Perine being in on third and 1 (and 4th and 1) and I thought he actually got the first down on 3rd down with a horrible spot.  But I digress.

Spain was consistently average to above average....key word:  consistently.  Carman is just too inconsistent.  

I think we've just had a really bad run of OL lately.  Jonah seems to be the only one that has really stuck for us, but that should be expected given his draft position.  One might think to blame Pollack, but I don't think that's the answer.  I think if they were moving on to other teams and succeeding, that would be one thing.  Haven't seen any evidence of that yet.  I guess they can't all be winners.

Consider our success at WR.  We really haven't whiffed on anyone in quite a long time except for John Ross.  Looking at things at little closer, I believe our problem is scouting/drafting in respect to the OL.  That seems to be the common denominator.  Frank isn't a miracle worker.  If Carman, Prince or Adeniji are cut tomorrow, do I think they'll go on to succeed elsewhere?  I doubt it.  

(08-15-2022, 01:37 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I think we've just had a really bad run of OL lately.  Jonah seems to be the only one that has really stuck for us, but that should be expected given his draft position.  One might think to blame Pollack, but I don't think that's the answer.  I think if they were moving on to other teams and succeeding, that would be one thing.  Haven't seen any evidence of that yet.  I guess they can't all be winners.

Consider our success at WR.  We really haven't whiffed on anyone in quite a long time except for John Ross.  Looking at things at little closer, I believe our problem is scouting/drafting in respect to the OL.  That seems to be the common denominator.  Frank isn't a miracle worker.  If Carman, Prince or Adeniji are cut tomorrow, do I think they'll go on to succeed elsewhere?  I doubt it.  

So then the Bengals should try to address their OL woes with veterans and use the draft on positions they are better at drafting/developing.
Add Spain to bump off Adeniji. Bengals still would probably have to go with 10-man OL on the roster though unless Prince, Smith, or Carman were to be cut.
Spain would be slotted in as the default starter at LG unless/until Carman or Volson could supplant him.

(08-14-2022, 11:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No they did not improve.

Ogbuehi has been on 3 teams in three years with only 4 starts since leaving the Bengals 

Price is not even on an NFL roster.

Where do you come up with this crazy shit?

Price had a PFF grade of 62.5 last year in 985 snaps played last year:
Billy Price | New York Giants C | NFL and PFF stats | PFF

With the Bengals, he graded under 60 in all 3 seasons.
Cincinnati Bengals trade former first-rounder Billy Price to New York Giants for B.J. Hill | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

That's improvement. Not saying he's great, but he improved.

Same with Ced.

(08-14-2022, 11:55 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Billy Price was still plenty bad last season. The Giants haven’t even re-signed him. In fact, no one has. Cedric Ogbuehi is now on his 5th team since leaving the Bengals. And last season he was even cut from the Titans practice squad.

No doubt. They're not 'good' players. But, they did improve some.

Maybe if they had better coaching from Day 1, they get better. I don't know.

It's hard to believe that the Bengals could be great at drafting WR and some other position groups, and then draft a bunch of offensive lineman high that basically all suck except Jonah.