(08-17-2022, 12:56 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Nate endorsement of death. 

Last time I remember you talking like that on OL was Ogbuehi and Fisher who you were real high on.

Nate is optimistic to a fault

I'm hoping Volson gets some playing time with the starters against the Giants. It'd be nice to know what he can do against better competition. If he plays like he did against Arizona, then it's time to think he'll be the week 1 starter.

(08-15-2022, 10:00 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd have to go find the post, but his pass rush grade was better than his overall grade indicated.

EDIT - I was able to find the numbers.
Run defense - 46.2
Pass rush - 54.6
4 tackles
2 stops
1 hurry
1 total pressure

Not sure why his overall grade was just about his RD grade when he did more pass rushing snaps.
Perhaps he got a penalty to bring his grade down? I wasn't able to watch the game, and I can't seem to find a list of penalties from it either.
That's one thing I don't actually like about PFF - there isn't enough transparency to show how the overall grade was calculated from the sub-grades.
I would think Carter's grade should, if anything, be about midway between 46.2 and 54.6, which would put him at 50.1.

PFF player grades are so random and crap.


Look at Trevor Pennings grades for pre-season week 1 he received an 86.2 overall. Ok if you look at their splits he received an 96.4 run blocking grade which I would say is accurate because he looked very good run blocking... but as a pass blocker he gave up 5 pressures including a sack he received a 28.6 pass blocking grade.

Now tell me how can a LEFT TACKLE have such a bad pass blocking game average out at an 86.2?

I believe player grades depend solely on the grader and each one grades differently. 

(08-17-2022, 07:35 AM)Synric Wrote: PFF player grades are so random and crap.


Look at Trevor Pennings grades for pre-season week 1 he received an 86.2 overall. Ok if you look at their splits he received an 96.4 run blocking grade which I would say is accurate because he looked very good run blocking... but as a pass blocker he gave up 5 pressures including a sack he received a 28.6 pass blocking grade.

Now tell me how can a LEFT TACKLE have such a bad pass blocking game average out at an 86.2?

I believe player grades depend solely on the grader and each one grades differently. 

Unfortunately, since PFF has been trying to push their draft rankings, there seems to be some flubbing of grades for rookies they had graded high.  

(08-17-2022, 07:35 AM)Synric Wrote: PFF player grades are so random and crap.


Look at Trevor Pennings grades for pre-season week 1 he received an 86.2 overall. Ok if you look at their splits he received an 96.4 run blocking grade which I would say is accurate because he looked very good run blocking... but as a pass blocker he gave up 5 pressures including a sack he received a 28.6 pass blocking grade.

Now tell me how can a LEFT TACKLE have such a bad pass blocking game average out at an 86.2?

I believe player grades depend solely on the grader and each one grades differently. 

They are probably doing some kind of weighting based on snaps played. Not justifying them, I am not a huge fan of their grades, either, but they are just using math to achieve their grades. I would guess he had significantly more run block snaps than PB snaps and they have an equation or method to get there. 

(08-17-2022, 10:57 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: They are probably doing some kind of weighting based on snaps played. Not justifying them, I am not a huge fan of their grades, either, but they are just using math to achieve their grades. I would guess he had significantly more run block snaps than PB snaps and they have an equation or method to get there. 

Doesnt matter. Giving a player a near elite level grade of 86 would mean he had an amazing game but Penning allowed 5 pressure including a sack in 14 pass blocking snaps out of 57 total snaps.
 

(08-17-2022, 11:23 AM)Synric Wrote: Doesnt matter. Giving a player a near elite level grade of 86 would mean he had an amazing game but Penning allowed 5 pressure including a sack in 14 pass blocking snaps out of 57 total snaps.
 

I would point you to this part of my post.

Quote:Not justifying them, I am not a huge fan of their grades, either, but they are just using math to achieve their grades.

I am not a fan of their grades, but you specifically asked "how can a LEFT TACKLE have such a bad pass blocking game average out at an 86.2?" and that is the probable answer. 

The team needs more depth at OL for me to not be on the edge of my seat for the entire season. I don't think the backup centers are adequate. I hope Caps is healthy.

In his projected 53, Dehner, in The Athletic, has Volson as the starter

(08-17-2022, 01:13 PM)pally Wrote: In his projected 53, Dehner, in The Athletic, has Volson as the starter

Safe bet unless they sign someone. Carman just ain’t it.

(08-17-2022, 10:57 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: They are probably doing some kind of weighting based on snaps played. Not justifying them, I am not a huge fan of their grades, either, but they are just using math to achieve their grades. I would guess he had significantly more run block snaps than PB snaps and they have an equation or method to get there. 

^ This.

It's not an average of the two. PB and RB are different animals and stand on their own merit. The only thing i don't like, if i recall correctly how i read it in the past, is that the overall grade has a bit more "feel" than hard numbers to it. 

(08-17-2022, 01:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: ^ This.

It's not an average of the two. PB and RB are different animals and stand on their own merit. The only thing i don't like, if i recall correctly how i read it in the past, is that the overall grade has a bit more "feel" than hard numbers to it. 

This has been kinda my problem with the overall grade once I got access to the split grades.
There doesn't seem to be a clear-cut formula to calculate the overall grades from the split grades.

(08-17-2022, 12:56 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Nate endorsement of death. 

Last time I remember you talking like that on OL was Ogbuehi and Fisher who you were real high on.

I see the ninja TLL but...

No, I wasn't high on Ogbuehi at all. He made like one good block as a rookie that kind of gave me a little hope with him but that 
was it with him. He was just a terrible pick from the beginning. I liked Fisher but he had heart issues which no one could of saw.

Carman I liked from the beginning though and before we even drafted him. Still think he can be a great left guard like I said.

Just Volson might actually be more pro ready from what I saw in the Friday game. Kind of surprising coming from such a small
college and being moved around so much. Carman being moved around clearly has affected his game. He needs to be put at LG
and he needs to stay there and we need to quit ***** around moving guys all over the place. Except for Volson though it seems
as he can handle it and not miss a beat.

(08-17-2022, 02:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Carman I liked from the beginning though and before we even drafted him. Still think he can be a great left guard like I said.

maybe he can turn out to be decent. But he's obviously never going to end up great. That's just clear to everyone with eyes

(08-17-2022, 02:44 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: maybe he can turn out to be decent. But he's obviously never going to end up great. That's just clear to everyone with eyes

Decent or even average is completely fine with me because we made the Super Bowl last year with a dog shit line! 

I'd prefer we give Burrow the best protection possible but that's obviously not possible this year, so I'm just hoping for enough protection so he doesn't get killed and can make some plays.

(08-17-2022, 02:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I see the ninja TLL but...

No, I wasn't high on Ogbuehi at all. He made like one good block as a rookie that kind of gave me a little hope with him but that 
was it with him. He was just a terrible pick from the beginning. I liked Fisher but he had heart issues which no one could of saw.

Ehhh....no, your recollection is wrong, Nate. You were high on Ogbuehi, I remember this as well. I just went and did a search on the forum for Ogbuehi and there are plenty of posts where you are singing his praise, talking about how good of a pick he was, how talented he is etc. Funny enough, there is a post where you talk about how Ogbuehi was a better prospect than none other than La'el Collins.

There is nothing wrong with this, you are just an optimist about the Bengals. However, you don't get to be an optimist AND re-write history 

(08-17-2022, 11:23 AM)Synric Wrote: Doesnt matter. Giving a player a near elite level grade of 86 would mean he had an amazing game but Penning allowed 5 pressure including a sack in 14 pass blocking snaps out of 57 total snaps.
 

They are using weighted averages.  He graded 28.6 on 25% of his plays (14/57), and graded 96.4 on 75% of his plays (43/57), resulting in an overall score of 86.2.  It's not a perfect system, but it's obviously the one that they're using.  

It's no different that an OL who is a great pass protector 85 grade, and a poor run blocker 42 grade, coming in at a very respectable 76 overall.  Why?  Likely because the team passes 70+ percent of the time.

Give Penning a realistic, complete game where the offense throws 60+ percent of the time, and that 86 grade will quickly fall back to a more realistic number.

(08-17-2022, 02:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I see the ninja TLL but...

No, I wasn't high on Ogbuehi at all. He made like one good block as a rookie that kind of gave me a little hope with him but that 
was it with him. He was just a terrible pick from the beginning. I liked Fisher but he had heart issues which no one could of saw.

Carman I liked from the beginning though and before we even drafted him. Still think he can be a great left guard like I said.

Just Volson might actually be more pro ready from what I saw in the Friday game. Kind of surprising coming from such a small
college and being moved around so much. Carman being moved around clearly has affected his game. He needs to be put at LG
and he needs to stay there and we need to quit ***** around moving guys all over the place. Except for Volson though it seems
as he can handle it and not miss a beat.

The problem with any prospect shifting to a new position is you really don't know if they will succeed at it or not.
But we know OT probably isn't in the cards given the incredible lack of length.
If Carman can't show he can handle DTs while playing IOL, there's probably not any hope for him.
We just wouldn't have known that since we really just saw him at LT at Clemson.
The transition sounds easy on paper, but not every OT can shift inside well.

(08-17-2022, 03:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'd prefer we give Burrow the best protection possible but that's obviously not possible this year, 

But it is. It's just the front office wont make the moves to bring one of 3 free agent linemen in.

(08-17-2022, 03:02 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Ehhh....no, your recollection is wrong, Nate. You were high on Ogbuehi, I remember this as well. I just went and did a search on the forum for Ogbuehi and there are plenty of posts where you are singing his praise, talking about how good of a pick he was, how talented he is etc. Funny enough, there is a post where you talk about how Ogbuehi was a better prospect than none other than La'el Collins.

There is nothing wrong with this, you are just an optimist about the Bengals. However, you don't get to be an optimist AND re-write history 

Nate's a lying optimist