(08-22-2022, 09:14 AM)740Bengal Wrote: Listen, I want the guy to succeed, the way he carries himself just irritates me, be engaged, act like you want to be there.

I'd like to go with "have you ever played at a fairly high level sport or at least played football at any level" but I won't go there. This level of play is not about pom poms and being rah rah and especially each and every play. Each of these players are actual people first and foremost with their own personalities, levels of intensity and even complexities.

All these players have played dozens and dozens of games at very high levels and to a man they know how to approach their craft, how intense to get and just how much slobber they need to let loose if that is what you're actually looking for. This ain't North Dallas Forty or The Longest Yard.
In fact, you'd be shocked at the rather high intellect and composure many many of these 300 plus pound players have, need and use to their benefit.

I would imagine there are plenty of players that are rather aloof, find very little interest in playing the game and are playing strictly for a paycheck at least to the level they need to but I'll never assume so and so is this way/that way just by the look on their face and the swagger they do/don't show. Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes and not visible to the naked eye.

(08-22-2022, 11:38 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Hypothetical for you...

You have two employees on your team.
One is really strong technically, but the way they act and talk gives off the impression they aren't as dedicated.
The other is weaker technically, but they give off the perception that they try really hard and dedicate a lot of time and effort.
In the end though, Employee #1 is still stronger technically than Employee #2, but #2 gives the perception they are trying harder.

Which do you go with to get the job done?

Employee #1 produces, Carman does not. 

(08-22-2022, 12:02 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Employee #1 produces, Carman does not. 

Bingo. Production based business.

(08-22-2022, 11:57 AM)higgy100 Wrote: I would imagine there are plenty of players that are rather aloof, find very little interest in playing the game and are playing strictly for a paycheck at least to the level they need to but I'll never assume so and so is this way/that way just by the look on their face and the swagger they do/don't show. Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes and not visible to the naked eye.

Because of the physical sacrifice I am guessing that most guys who stick in the NFL love the game.  It would be hard t put in the work required if they didn't.  The difference is just how they present themselves.

Some times the most intense and dedicated players just don't show it.  It is like watching great guitar solos.  Some guys make faces and contort their bodies as they play.  But I have also seen guys stand perfectly still with their eyes closed (young Derrick Trucks) and absolutely shred.  The presentation made no difference to the quality of the solo.

(08-22-2022, 12:02 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Employee #1 produces, Carman does not. 

Carman isn't producing based on...what?
The snaps in Preseason Game 1?
Volson didn't really look any better than Carman did in the game against the Cardinals, IMO.

I haven't heard that he's been severely performing worse than Volson in practices.
To my understanding, Volson has been getting the 1st team reps primarily because Carman has been out with COVID.

I'd like to see both split the LG reps this final game (assuming Carman is back from COVID in time).
Or maybe even have each of them start at both OG positions and play (nearly) the full game.

Time for the fork?

He's such an easy punching bag. Covid wont help him gain the strength he needs to improve. I'm not totally giving up on Carman, but I've seen more signs for concern than optimism this year--especially when you weigh in his impact last year.

Maybe in a year or two he'll get stronger and more effective. But if he doesn't show anything this year or next, put a fork in him because time is of the essence and we need a starter at left guard now.

I'm a big believer that good players will show brilliant flashes right away. Waiting around forever for this guy isn't a good strategy. Bringing in competition is a good strategy. I'm glad we at least have a rookie we can try at left guard. It'd be nice to get a vet G/T for depth though. I'm not liking what I'm seeing from our backup tackles either.

(08-22-2022, 12:11 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Time for the fork?

He's such an easy punching bag. Covid wont help him gain the strength he needs to improve. I'm not totally giving up on Carman, but I've seen more signs for concern than optimism this year--especially when you weigh in his impact last year.

Maybe in a year or two he'll get stronger and more effective. But if he doesn't show anything this year or next, put a fork in him because time is of the essence and we need a starter at left guard now.

I'm a big believer that good players will show brilliant flashes right away. Waiting around forever for this guy isn't a good strategy. Bringing in competition is a good strategy. I'm glad we at least have a rookie we can try at left guard. It'd be nice to get a vet G/T for depth though. I'm not liking what I'm seeing from our backup tackles either.

I don't think you should "stick a fork" in any 2nd rounder after just one season, but it could be an uphill battle for him now.
What we have to hope is that he continues his development even if not taking a starting spot.
Heck, we could see something similar to last year where he's not starting initially but takes over due to injury or poor performance from the person in front of him.

It's possible Volson may get the nod but be underwhelming, resulting in the team trying Carman for some drives in the regular season.

(08-22-2022, 12:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think you should "stick a fork" in any 2nd rounder after just one season, but it could be an uphill battle for him now.
What we have to hope is that he continues his development even if not taking a starting spot.
Heck, we could see something similar to last year where he's not starting initially but takes over due to injury or poor performance from the person in front of him.

It's possible Volson may get the nod but be underwhelming, resulting in the team trying Carman for some drives in the regular season.

I’m expecting him to get spot duty again. I would have liked to see improvement by now. He just hasn’t shown me anything. But I will say he looks better than our backup tackles—they look like they’ve gotten worse over the years. Atleast carman has pretty much stayed the same.

(08-22-2022, 12:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Carman isn't producing based on...what?

Nothing but the fact that Carman is lazy while Volson is a "scrapper" from a small school with a "high motor".

(08-22-2022, 12:25 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I’m expecting him to get spot duty again. I would have liked to see improvement by now. He just hasn’t shown me anything. But I will say he looks better than our backup tackles—they look like they’ve gotten worse over the years. Atleast carman has pretty much stayed the same.

Adeniji and Smith have looked downright bad.
Adeniji looked back in Preseason Game 1 when he was at OG, but I thought maybe he would do better shifted back outside.
Doesn't seem to be the case yet.

I don't have much faith in Prince being drastically improved in the passing game either.

I really do fear if Williams or Collins has to miss any time during the season.

(08-22-2022, 01:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Adeniji and Smith have looked downright bad.
Adeniji looked back in Preseason Game 1 when he was at OG, but I thought maybe he would do better shifted back outside.
Doesn't seem to be the case yet.

I don't have much faith in Prince being drastically improved in the passing game either.

I really do fear if Williams or Collins has to miss any time during the season.

D'Ante Smith didn't look bad while blocking the 3 holdings were bad.

I know these coaches are more schooled than me on such matters but IDK why we don't let Carman play at the position he played his whole life. I get he has T-Rex arms but so does Slater

(08-22-2022, 01:11 PM)Synric Wrote: D'Ante Smith didn't look bad while blocking the 3 holdings were bad.

I didn't watch Smith intensely, but I noticed pressures coming from every angle last night, and the run game was horrendous through more than the first half of the game.
Maybe I'm being too harsh.
I just want to see these backups stonewall other backups consistently, and I haven't noticed that happening.

(08-22-2022, 01:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know these coaches are more schooled than me on such matters but IDK why we don't let Carman play at the position he played his whole life.  I get he has T-Rex arms but so does Slater

Slater has the requisite 33" or longer arm length, Carman does not.

Carman's closer to Billy Price arm length than Slater's.

Slater - 33.25"
Carman - 32.5"
Price - 32.0"

(08-22-2022, 01:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Slater has the requisite 33" or longer arm length, Carman does not.

Carman's closer to Billy Price arm length than Slater's.

Slater - 33.25"
Carman - 32.5"
Price - 32.0"

That was a weird year because of Covid they had problems getting static measurements. Carman was measured twice after that listing and came out with 33.25 inch arms. 

(08-22-2022, 01:59 PM)Synric Wrote: That was a weird year because of Covid they had problems getting static measurements. Carman was measured twice after that listing and came out with 33.25 inch arms. 

Even better

(08-22-2022, 01:59 PM)Synric Wrote: That was a weird year because of Covid they had problems getting static measurements. Carman was measured twice after that listing and came out with 33.25 inch arms. 

Why is it then that quite a few sites still list the 32.5" arm length if it's inaccurate? Just laziness to update?

If he really is 33" or longer, I'd be more willing to try him outside. He might do better against the smaller edge guys than the bigger, more powerful IDL.

(08-22-2022, 11:22 AM)PhilHos Wrote:

(08-22-2022, 02:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Why is it then that quite a few sites still list the 32.5" arm length if it's inaccurate? Just laziness to update?

If he really is 33" or longer, I'd be more willing to try him outside. He might do better against the smaller edge guys than the bigger, more powerful IDL.

That was technically his pro day measurement but he was measured by Paul Alexander and at his scouting workout right before the draft and came out to 33.25 inch arms.

Snafus like this happen a good bit. I remember a WVU receiver at the combine ran a 4.5 but the time was running before he started lol. He ran a high 4.3 at his pro day but his scouting combine number is still listed at 4.5.

(08-22-2022, 02:17 PM)Synric Wrote: That was technically his pro day measurement but he was measured by Paul Alexander and at his scouting workout right before the draft and came out to 33.25 inch arms.

Snafus like this happen a good bit. I remember a WVU receiver at the combine ran a 4.5 but the time was running before he started lol. He ran a high 4.3 at his pro day but his scouting combine number is still listed at 4.5.

I think having a faster Pro Day compared to Combine is rather common, and most people always take the Combine number because it's more "official" (laser timed) and has the same field conditions across prospects. Unlike Pro Days where fields/tracks are always (vastly) different between prospects based on what school they are at.

I do find it odd how arm measurement can be nearly a full inch different between Pro Day measurement and scouting workout.