(08-31-2022, 08:52 PM)Whatever Wrote: I think it's a talent evaluation issue, honestly.  OL is extremely tough to hit on anymore in the first place and the team consistently values upside and physical traits over technique, intelligence, and work ethic.  Carman was a high upside guy.  So were Jordan, Ogbuehi, Smith, etc.  

They’ve drafted nothing but guys with subpar athleticism or guys who were hurt who couldn’t test.

(08-31-2022, 08:33 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Don’t know who they are talking about wouldn’t say but either Paul Alexander, Willie Anderson, or somebody at Clemson but somebody misled them on Carman. Not about his ability but either about his toughness or work ethic. That’s a fact. You can almost see it in their comments on Volson. What they say about him they’ve never said about Carman. But yes they were pleased with his recent work and effort.

pretty sure work ethic concerns was on his scouting report

(08-31-2022, 09:32 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: pretty sure work ethic concerns was on his scouting report

Then they asked somebody at Clemson ( it’s who I think) and they weren’t forthcoming

(08-31-2022, 09:01 PM)Whatever Wrote: Draft discussion from last year was highly toxic.  There's a group of people that are going to be optimistic no matter who the pick is.  Aside from them, there was the big Chase vs Sewell debate and a crux of the Team Chase argument was that we'd be able to get a starting caliber OL in the 2nd.  That pick was going to get hyped or bashed more based on which side of that argument you fell on.  I don't think there were very many people at all that gave a take based on a dispassionate evaluation of Carman as a player.  Emotions were just way too high.

I didn’t like carmans demeanor the moment we drafted him.

(08-31-2022, 07:36 PM)TheFan Wrote: Do you genuinely think Volson is the answer like some people here seem to think? I pray that he is but his PFF grades were also trash. Carman played really well his first start and then got worse as the year went on. Who knows what will happen with Volson who we really only saw once.

The joy that some people here seem to be getting from Carman or other players they don't like not succeeding is weird (not saying you're in that group of people.)

Sunset is not in that group, he just saw the back injury and surgery and knew that was tough to come back from even if 
you are young like Carman who is only 22. I still have hope for Jackson Charmin cause I haven't seen the injury holding 
him back, just poor hand placement, poor at setting up and poor balance. All these things can be worked out of a player
through coaching.

(08-31-2022, 07:41 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: neither are the answer this year, but Carman is certainly worse. Scharping will overtake that LG spot if Volson starts getting spanked consistently 

Frank is in that group though lol

But I agree with Frank here, if Volson plays bad Scharping should be the first dude off the bench cause he is a decent 
veteran pass protecting Guard and Charmin has struggled in this area.

After Frank's comments throughout the offseason and now Zac's comments, I'm wondering if Duke was the only one high on Carman. 

(09-01-2022, 01:26 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: After Frank's comments throughout the offseason and now Zac's comments, I'm wondering if Duke was the only one high on Carman. 

And Mike.

I’ve maintained the whole time that Pollack wasn’t high on Carman if you read between the lines.

Volson is 24 and Carman is 22.

I think the coaches are just really pleased with Volson more so than being disappointed with Carman. Which would be great for us.

I thought it looked like Carman was starting to get more comfortable at the end of the Rams game.

I'm hoping Carman is going to be the 6th OL when we go jumbo. It would be nice to have a run game that could just take over at will.

(08-31-2022, 05:48 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: I agree.They should have spared no expense on the OL.That was this teams only glaring weakness last year.As was mentioned before,I wouldn’t be disappointed if they placed Trey Hill at Center and moved Karras to LG,where Karras is actually better than at Center.

(08-31-2022, 09:01 PM)Whatever Wrote: Draft discussion from last year was highly toxic.  There's a group of people that are going to be optimistic no matter who the pick is.  Aside from them, there was the big Chase vs Sewell debate and a crux of the Team Chase argument was that we'd be able to get a starting caliber OL in the 2nd.  That pick was going to get hyped or bashed more based on which side of that argument you fell on.  I don't think there were very many people at all that gave a take based on a dispassionate evaluation of Carman as a player.  Emotions were just way too high.

My take was he was picked too high but it was a trade so extra picks do help, though disappointed so far let's hope during the season we see an improvement still only his 2nd year

(08-31-2022, 07:36 PM)TheFan Wrote: The joy that some people here seem to be getting from Carman or other players they don't like not succeeding is weird (not saying you're in that group of people.)

I get no joy from Bengal prospects failing.  However the hope that Volson inspires is that he represents a break from the streak of OL drafted by the Bengals that simply failed to flourish.  I mean, we have arguably one of the top 3 QBs in the league, who's already had to come back from major surgery due to poor OL play.  Our QB is so good that he was able to take the team to the edge of winning the Super Bowl, with a patchwork OL.  He deserves much better than that.

It's a little startling that the team had to go to the free agency well 3 times this year, in order to put a competent OL together. Having to bring in 3 outside players, in order to solidify a single position group is quite alarming.  If Volson succeeds and develops into an above average starter, hopefully the long streak of bad luck in drafting OL is broken.

(09-01-2022, 07:56 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If Volson succeeds and develops into an above average starter, hopefully the long streak of bad luck in drafting OL is broken.

I’ll settle for average. Give me another Clint Boling type 4th round hit, and I’ll be very happy.

(08-31-2022, 08:33 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Don’t know who they are talking about wouldn’t say but either Paul Alexander, Willie Anderson, or somebody at Clemson but somebody misled them on Carman. Not about his ability but either about his toughness or work ethic. That’s a fact. You can almost see it in their comments on Volson. What they say about him they’ve never said about Carman. But yes they were pleased with his recent work and effort.

A Paul Alexander endorsement would be all it takes for me to look somewhere else!

(09-01-2022, 08:37 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’ll settle for average. Give me another Clint Boling type 4th round hit, and I’ll be very happy.

I think Volson could be more like Zeit than Boling if we are talking about hopes in the type of player he could be.

Volson doesn't move near as well as Boling, more like Zeit. But he needs to get a ton better in pass protection to be in Zeit's
stratosphere. Boling was superb at pulling in the run game, similar to Steinbach.

(09-01-2022, 09:10 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: A Paul Alexander endorsement would be all it takes for me to look somewhere else!

Same!

I predict Volson plays well for us this season. Will make all rookie team. Might make up a little for all the misses Duke has had recently with the latest being Carmen.

(09-01-2022, 02:11 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I predict Volson plays well for us this season. Will make all rookie team. Might make up a little for all the misses Duke has had recently with the latest being Carmen.

wow 

someone more blindly optimistic than Nate. Impressive

Trying to diagnose why we have had a less than stellar OL draft record of late is a bit of a slog as there are multiple issues all playing together.

In no particular order....

- With Paul Alexander then Pollack then Turner then Pollack we've had 4 line coaches who use three different blocking schemes. This is not a good way to either draft properly (as these systems look for different attributes from the lineman) or to coach young players up (no consistency). I admit I'm not the biggest fan of Pollack's scheme (I'm more of a power scheme fan myself) but no matter - without consistency you wind up with polyglot lines.

- Have to give Turner another demerit - his actual training disciplines and teaching of fundamentals in technique was pretty much non existent. There's a reason players like MJ never developed at all and also ones like Price backslid under him.

- And lest we forget the train wreck drafting in 2015 of Ogbuehi and Fisher which led to the parting of the ways with Big Whit and started a downward spiral.

I'm sure there are more but it's pretty clear we need to settle on one blocking approach and draft to execute it. Which of course is interesting because none of our Free Agent haul on the line specialize in Wide Zone...

I think Joe's in for another long year of pressure right up the gut.

(09-01-2022, 02:59 PM)jason Wrote: I think Joe's in for another long year of pressure right up the gut.

well they just picked up a proven pass blocking LG. Hopefully he picks up the scheme quickly so he can get on the field

(08-31-2022, 10:04 PM)SladeX Wrote: I didn’t like carmans demeanor the moment we drafted him.

Did not like that his shirt was clean. Want my O-linemen to have mustard, chili, and jelly doughnut stained shirts coming in.

Seriously though I had hope for him moving to Guard but apparently I was dead wrong. Still willing top give him another year to prove himself or the Bengals should move on from him this time next year.