(09-02-2022, 05:48 PM)Synric Wrote: Jordan Palmer mentioned that Jacksonville was a bad environment for developing players in a podcast once.

This brings up another point.  Recognizing and drafting talent will not produce good players unless you can coach them up.

Maybe we give teams more credit for drafting well when they are actually just better at coaching up the guys they select.

(09-02-2022, 06:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This brings up another point.  Recognizing and drafting talent will not produce good players unless you can coach them up.

Maybe we give teams more credit for drafting well when they are actually just better at coaching up the guys they select.

That is a good point and Bengals lately have done well, especially IMO, Hobby.  But I am becoming a skeptic for Frank Pollack.  But i said same with Paulie.  So maybe I am jaded.  

(09-02-2022, 06:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: BTW, tough loss last night...

I don't mind the loss it was just how it ended...such a great game ruined by a bad ending. It's ok next week its one of those great weekends were its game in Morgantown then a 5ish hour drive to Cincinnati for a Bengal games lol.

(09-02-2022, 03:34 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: When did they suck when they said that? Because when they were saying that the Bengals were in a window where they went to the playoffs 6 straight years in a row and had a couple SB caliber teams. 

Some of you buy WAAAAY to much into the media narrative that this franchise has been shitty for a decade plus now. The Bengals went through a rebuild for a couple years but they have been pretty consistently average to above average since 2005. 

I was thinking Marvin’s last years/Zacs first was when this came out. Regardless, I have followed this team for decades so I don’t need the media to tell me when they suck - I see it for myself.
Those Marvin teams “sucked” because they underachieved and by the last couple of years they were expected to blow it in the playoffs and always did. They were good but never really a threat because the Marvin/Andy teams never could win when it really mattered.

(09-02-2022, 03:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Interesting.

I remember when they Bengals used to bring up the fact that they had one of the highest percentages of drafted players still in the league and many here would say it was meaningless bullshit.

Wonder if they will say the same now that the numbers have flipped.

Well it looks like it was BS if I am reading this right.
They have the highest % out of the NFL now but they have a talented roster and just played in the SB. When they were bragging about having the highest % still in the league they sucked so maybe it is a BS stat.

Always want to be careful with these stats. You're tempted to see what you want to see...

In one sense, I'd expect them to be pretty high on the OOL list. 3 of the 5 years they had double-digit # of picks. There's no room for all those players, and it's always harder to catch on with another team than the one that drafted you.

That said, it's not a good stat. You wouldn't expect to be at the very top of the list purely on account of the # of picks. There are plenty of other teams in the same boat. It's an indictment of their draft performance no matter how you look at it.

We just need to keep drafting like we have the last 3 years since Zac got here. Just need to avoid those Ryan
Finley/Drew Sample reaches. Still like these guys but we could of taken much better players there. Been some
great drafting other than these guys though. Finley beat the steelers with that hilarious grin, so he was worth the
pick and Drew is a very good run blocker and blocker overall, so he is an okay player.

Just need to clean these types of picks up and we will be great for years to come.

(09-02-2022, 05:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's an interesting one because on one hand the Jags are terrible and your comment is true, but on the other hand the rest of the top-5 are the Ravens, Bucs, Patriots, and Saints. Not really sure what conclusion you can draw from that.

Memory tells me that this list consists of mainly teams that have tended to get a fair number of compensatory picks, which tend to up the number of later round picks a team has.  Late round picks have a tough time making a roster from the get go.  So by the general concept of compensatory picks, teams which have them are going to have a lower rate of draft pick retention.  As has already been mentioned by someone else, late round picks don't tend to get the same number of opportunities to make rosters as early picks who falter in the early stages of their careers.  Therefore they will more likely be out of the league quickly if they don't crack the roster in the first two seasons.  This might be an oversimplification on my part, but I think it is valid none the less.

(09-03-2022, 02:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We just need to keep drafting like we have the last 3 years since Zac got here. Just need to avoid those Ryan
Finley/Drew Sample reaches. Still like these guys but we could of taken much better players there. Been some
great drafting other than these guys though. Finley beat the steelers with that hilarious grin, so he was worth the
pick and Drew is a very good run blocker and blocker overall, so he is an okay player.

Just need to clean these types of picks up and we will be great for years to come.

Agree and very pleased with Zac's drafting bringing in the likes of Jonah, Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, McPhearson, Dax, and Chase already who seem to make up the Bengals backbone. 

These players are all stars and that's pretty remarkable in my book. Plus still may see an Ossai, CBT, Gunter, or Volson amongst others still emerge out of Zac's draft classes. 

(09-04-2022, 01:01 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Agree and very pleased with Zac's drafting bringing in the likes of Jonah, Burrow, Higgins, Wilson, McPhearson, Dax, and Chase already who seem to make up the Bengals backbone. 

These players are all stars and that's pretty remarkable in my book. Plus still may see an Ossai, CBT, Gunter, or Volson amongst others still emerge out of Zac's draft classes. 

Yeah, Zac and Lou specifically had a clear vision of what type of team they wanted to build and it is evident.

Sure, we lucked into some guys, specifically Burrow and Chase but other than these picks that were no brainers everything 
has been extremely well done in building a contender. FA has also been really well done beside Trae Waynes being injured 
the entire time he was here which honestly wasn't the coach's fault.

You are going to miss on a pick here and there, just don't reach. I still don't find Carman to be a reach cause he went right
where lots were predicting and he is extremely young still with great upside. I just don't like drafting anybody with injury 
issues and that was the only problem I had with the pick, that and putting him on the right side of the Line at Guard which
was a huge adjustment for him that he was uncomfortable with.

Dax Hill looks like a great pick and Volson could end up being the same. Carter and Gunter looked really good to me this 
Preseason. Gunter big time something I didn't expect as I thought it would take time with him to build up his strength.

Gunter looks like a badass already which is awesome. He had all the other tools before this, excited about this guy and 
Zach Carter at backup 3-tech who could have a huge impact as a rookie.

This just goes to show that "players on the roster" isn't what matters.

Home runs are what matters.

Guys like Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Wilson, etc.

Just like the 2011-15 stretch was propelled by home runs like Green, Atkins, Dunlap, Burfict, and Dalton (to a lesser degree).

Just like how the drafting of Chad, TJ, Rudi, Carson, etc got us back to the playoffs in 2005.

It's quality over quantity. Guys like Orson Charles being on your roster does literally nothing.

Also, I'll add that bad teams are more likely to keep more of their lesser talented picks, just due to their roster being worse. It's like some of us always said. Great teams are built via a combo of great drafting and free agent moves.

If we had some 7th round scrub in place of Trey Hendrickson last year, do we make the Super Bowl? Probably not, but this lousy stat would suggest we were drafting better.

(09-04-2022, 02:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This just goes to show that "players on the roster" isn't what matters.

Home runs are what matters.

Guys like Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Wilson, etc.

Just like the 2011-15 stretch was propelled by home runs like Green, Atkins, Dunlap, Burfict, and Dalton (to a lesser degree).

Just like how the drafting of Chad, TJ, Rudi, Carson, etc got us back to the playoffs in 2005.

It's quality over quantity. Guys like Orson Charles being on your roster does literally nothing.

(09-04-2022, 03:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Also, I'll add that bad teams are more likely to keep more of their lesser talented picks, just due to their roster being worse. It's like some of us always said. Great teams are built via a combo of great drafting and free agent moves.

If we had some 7th round scrub in place of Trey Hendrickson last year, do we make the Super Bowl? Probably not, but this lousy stat would suggest we were drafting better.

Nice posts Shake, yes it has been the combination of drafting well and getting proven Vets in Free Agency that has really
propelled this team into relevancy. Also, the coaching last year in keeping our players disciplined and not committing terrible
penalties all the time. Hope this is the case a week from now going against the team with the refs in their pocket.

My only concern is penalties cause the OL hasn't really had as much time to gel as I think they might of needed.

This might keep the game close than it should be.

(09-04-2022, 01:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You are going to miss on a pick here and there, just don't reach. 

But it is hard to tell when a player is really a "reach".

If a player is drafted much LATER than the "experts" predict very few people claim that all 32 NFL teams were wrong and the "experst" got it right.

But if a player is drafted much EARLIER than the "experts" predict most people claim the "experts" were right and the NFL team was wrong.

So with many players that were labeled a "reach" it is possible that other NFL teams had the players rated as high as the team who selected him and the "experts" were wrong.

(09-04-2022, 06:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But it is hard to tell when a player is really a "reach".

If a player is drafted much LATER than the "experts" predict very few people claim that all 32 NFL teams were wrong and the "experst" got it right.

But if a player is drafted much EARLIER than the "experts" predict most people claim the "experts" were right and the NFL team was wrong.

So with many players that were labeled a "reach" it is possible that other NFL teams had the players rated as high as the team who selected him and the "experts" were wrong.

All true. I thought both the Drew Sample and Ryan Finley picks were reaches but we don't know if they would of gotten 
taken right after us if we passed on them either. Heard there was a team right behind us that was going to take Sample.