I'm going to steal from Charles Barkley and Peyton Manning!

"They need to play faster" Charles Barkley

"The best offenses are the ones that avoid 3rd down. Think only first and 2nd downs". Peyton Manning

They need to attack and be the aggressors. Especially on 1st and 2nd down.

(09-20-2022, 06:49 PM)TheFan Wrote: We lost against 2 mediocre teams without QBs. Cowboys were missing like 3 starters including their QB. If this was against the top tier teams we're going to face later in the season we're having completely different conversations. 

The reaction so far through 2 games seems pretty fair with how terrible we have played.

Even if we turn it around and go 10-5 the rest of the way. How awfully prepared our coaches and players have been for these games is unacceptable.

We've yet to have the lead for a single second this season too.

(09-20-2022, 06:49 PM)TheFan Wrote: We lost against 2 mediocre teams without QBs. Cowboys were missing like 3 starters including their QB. If this was against the top tier teams we're going to face later in the season we're having completely different conversations. 

The reaction so far through 2 games seems pretty fair with how terrible we have played.

Even if we turn it around and go 10-5 the rest of the way. How awfully prepared our coaches and players have been for these games is unacceptable.

What exactly does "unacceptable" mean? 

Should we:

Fire the coaches

Replace the players

Fold the franchise

Send strongly worded emails to the news media

Become Colts fans

Flood a message board with negative threads

What should we do "The Fan"?

Joe Burrow had emergency appendectomy. You know he could EASILY have died from that, right? I had a normal appendectomy about 3 years ago, and it was at least 10 days before I was cleared to lift more than 15 pounds. Obviously on day 11 it wasn’t like “To the weight room!”, I had to work my way back to full strength over a few weeks.

This could explain why joe doesn’t look himself yet. He will never publicly admit it as a problem, but the effects of this are probably still lingering, at the very least.

I’m not a doctor, I’m staying at a regular Holiday Inn tonight, but i do have recent experience with the “routine” variation of the procedure that was admittedly less than hours away from being what joe experienced. My incisions were laparoscopic. Were his a little more severe in order to clean him out?

The OL play is baffling. I’m sorry, but this points to coaching.

(09-20-2022, 09:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What exactly does "unacceptable" mean? 

Should we:

Fire the coaches

Replace the players

Fold the franchise

Send strongly worded emails to the news media

Become Colts fans

Flood a message board with negative threads

What should we do "The Fan"?

Do you think how our offense has been playing this year is acceptable? Are you happy with our offense averaging  4.5 points in the first half this year? Are you happy with Burrow having 1 touchdown throw in his NFL career on our scripted drives? Are you happy with Burrow getting sacked 70+ times last year and already 13 times this year? If the answer is no then it's not acceptable. 

I don't get paid millions of dollars to magically have the answers but the people who are being paid millions clearly don't have the answers either. I have no ability to change how anything is being done but that doesn't mean it's acceptable and something shouldn't change, even if it's philosophy, coaches roles, or God forbid a firing. Not necessarily right now but if the Oline continues to be the dumpster it has for years I think Pollack should be on the hot seat. Taylor should consider looking at whether he's a good playcaller (he's not) but that won't change. 

It was talked about here as well as by media all throughout the off-season how we're going to be seeing a lot of cover 2 type defenses this year until we learn how to beat it. What have we seen the first 2 games and what did we see in the playoffs? Cover 2 type defenses. Our coaches couldn't figure out how to reliably beat it last year and even with months to prepare somehow got even worse at it this year. There has been basically nothing inventive to help the offense out. And then to say they were surprised how much cover 2 is being played is baffling. 

Did you have an actual point to your post or just being snakry? Do you think they deserve praise for how the offense is being ran? 

I can get on board with Joe being slowed somewhat due to the appendectomy, and maybe he’s still conditioning.

For everything else, Occam’s Razor. We have incompetent coaches.

(09-20-2022, 09:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What exactly does "unacceptable" mean? 

Should we:

Fire the coaches

Replace the players

Fold the franchise

Send strongly worded emails to the news media

Become Colts fans

Flood a message board with negative threads

What should we do "The Fan"?

That’s a high-level Straw Man you crafted.

You could try to counter with a cogent response. Instead you looked right past the actual issues being discussed and shouted at him about the most insignificant part of his post.

(09-19-2022, 09:49 AM)PhilHos Wrote: We all know the offensive line is out of sync and that's due to the fact that they had no preseason time to gel. I would submit to you that in addition to the OL being out of sync with each other, they are also out of sync with the QB. Every QB has their way of pocket maneuvering in accordance to how the OL is blocking. With the new starters on the OL, they don't yet have an instinctual feel for how Burrow likes to move in the pocket. In addition, Joe is not yet accustomed to how the new OLmen are blocking their men. This is evident in how many times Burrow tries to escape the pocket only to run into a defender. Yesterday, was better as he was able to escape the pocket and pick up some positive yards.

Now, I'm no football guru, but it's my theory that Zac and Callahan are trying to "help" the OL by calling so many rushing plays on 1st and 2nd downs. If true, I think this is doing the opposite of helping. This is just making it take longer for the OL to get in sync with the QB. I don't know the specific stats, but it seems that our offense has played better in the 2nd half of both games and I think it's because we do more passing kinda forcing the OL and QB to get on the same page quicker.

Your thoughts (beyond the "Zac and/or Pollack sucks and/or needs fired")?

I think this is the "silver lining" if you had to find one. OL will get better as the season progresses. It's just a question of how much better and if it will be enough. 

I think this tweet and breakdown really sum up what is going on.

One play that sums up the Bengals offensive issues right now.
Poor individual pass protection
The RB looks lost in protection which highlights communication/preparation as a whole for blocking unit.
Burrow is sped up because he's worried he will get crushed.
Not good pic.twitter.com/D07bTaG5Vo

— Geoff Schwartz (@geoffschwartz) September 19, 2022

Burrow is uncomfortable and the line (and protection in general) is out of sync. Together, it's just a disaster waiting to happen.

I think the sacks actually hurt more because he's so thin lol, now way they're hurting less. He's gotta his strength back quickly somehow.

(09-19-2022, 10:36 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: How long does an O Line take to "gel"  I'm not buying that, they practice every day together since April, that's 5 to 6 months, how much time do they need? They should have "gelled" after the first month. If they haven't "gelled" by now they aren't going to. Other teams seem to be able to plug and play 2nd or 3rd stringers and play well together. (See yesterday with Dallas, playing with a patch OLine) pushed our D up and down the field.

They were talking about this on the NFL channel on the way to work this morning, while speaking about the Stealers. They said it takes 4 games for a new line to gel together.

(09-19-2022, 09:49 AM)PhilHos Wrote: We all know the offensive line is out of sync and that's due to the fact that they had no preseason time to gel. I would submit to you that in addition to the OL being out of sync with each other, they are also out of sync with the QB. Every QB has their way of pocket maneuvering in accordance to how the OL is blocking. With the new starters on the OL, they don't yet have an instinctual feel for how Burrow likes to move in the pocket. In addition, Joe is not yet accustomed to how the new OLmen are blocking their men. This is evident in how many times Burrow tries to escape the pocket only to run into a defender. Yesterday, was better as he was able to escape the pocket and pick up some positive yards.

Now, I'm no football guru, but it's my theory that Zac and Callahan are trying to "help" the OL by calling so many rushing plays on 1st and 2nd downs. If true, I think this is doing the opposite of helping. This is just making it take longer for the OL to get in sync with the QB. I don't know the specific stats, but it seems that our offense has played better in the 2nd half of both games and I think it's because we do more passing kinda forcing the OL and QB to get on the same page quicker.

Your thoughts (beyond the "Zac and/or Pollack sucks and/or needs fired")?

I agree with a lot of what you said here, but not so much on the play calling.  I believe they abandon the run too quickly when it is working.  

If you watch almost every other high-powered offense (Buffalo, KC, LA Chargers) they come out with short passes to get the chains moving with schemes that give the QB a wide open short pass that the receiver has an opportunity to turn in to decent yardage if there is a missed tackle.  Lots of "legal" pick plays, screens out of bunch formations, etc.  It is almost NEVER deep stuff down the field to start the game.  They chip away like this the first couple drives (often scoring because those scripted plays are so effective at moving the chains) and THEN take shots when the defense adjusts to take away the easy short completions.  

Is short, attack space...if they are all up on you (Chicago last year), then attack deep.  If they are all back in cover 2 or 3, then attack the short space.