(09-22-2022, 02:58 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Zac has been here 3 years and 2 games....   Its not just the 2 games

We should be seeing Growth and Progress especially after "upgrading" the teams weakest unit on the field

Well we saw a lot of growth and progress last year we won division, made it to Super Bowl We made it to SB not just on  Burrow only but having  a solid team and coaching putting it together.  but we saw a major weakness of Oline play and players and coaches had to overcome that.. so we upgrade and figured that would fix the line and really feel we were solid now on Offense but line has not performed well and Burrow has had two bad/so so games in a row which has increased early frustration. 

(09-22-2022, 05:32 PM)TheFan Wrote: 93 Cowboys started the season without Emmit Smith because Jerry is dumb. Once he was back they dominated again. You're also using Jimmie Johnson, Bill Parcells, Bill Bellichick, and to a lesser degree Tom Coughlin as your comparisons for Taylor. Lol

I don't think anyone (or at least anyone rational) has yet said our season is over or that 0-2 is impossible to overcome. If in 8 days time we're 2-2, this forum will look a lot different. If we go 0-3 you can pretty much stick a fork in this season though. 

My intent was not to draw direct player or coach comparisons to these teams. My intent was to show that it has been done. That Giants team was considered rather middle of the pack that beat the almighty Patriots. Eli Manning a rather average quarterback that was clutch at times. Anything can happen.  That was my underlying point.

I'm pretty sure I qualify in having real life issues for about 20 months now. But I don't have any problems with fans venting their frustrations and criticisms. Last season was a great season, no denying that. However it is the only great season they have had since the days of Munoz and Sam Wyche 30 plus years ago with a lot, and I mean a lot of bad seasons since. A quite a few of those bad seasons in recent history too. My point is, Bengal nation has had such a dark cloud hanging over it for three decades, it's going to take more than just one season to build up credit with a lot of fans.

(09-22-2022, 04:46 PM)Roland Wrote: The problem isn't two losses. The problem is that they're in danger of ruining the first franchise quarterback this team has had in 30 years.

If you're not feeling a little panic over that you're an idjit.

Palmer was a franchise QB.

(09-22-2022, 03:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is what you said, but I disagree.  One play didn't lose that game, four turnovers and a shellshocked OL is what lost that game.  It should have not even come down to one misfortunate STs play. 

Yes,it was a variety of unfortunate events that lost us that game.I might also add to the list,one Zac Taylor.

(09-22-2022, 04:46 PM)Roland Wrote: The problem isn't two losses.  The problem is that they're in danger of ruining the first franchise quarterback this team has had in 30 years.

If you're not feeling a little panic over that you're an idjit.

Well what to do qualifies as franchise QB?  Boomer and Dalton were drafted in 2nd round both played  9 years with us does not qualify? Palmer picked #1 and 7 yrs does that qualify? 

(09-22-2022, 06:15 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well we saw a lot of growth and progress last year we won division, made it to Super Bowl We made it to SB not just on  Burrow only but having  a solid team and coaching putting it together.  but we saw a major weakness of Oline play and players and coaches had to overcome that.. so we upgrade and figured that would fix the line and really feel we were solid now on Offense but line has not performed well and Burrow has had two bad/so so games in a row which has increased early frustration. 

Zac Taylor still can't figure out how to score TDs in the Red Zone even with a franchise QB, the best WR trio in the league, a solid RB, and serviceable TE. They were 23rd in Red Zone TD% last year regular season and then proceeded in the 4 postseason games to score only 7 TDs compared to 9 FGs of <40 yards. 7 postseason TDs vs 14 FGs.

Bengals Red Zone TD% Rank
2017: 11th
2018: 3rd
*Taylor Hired*
2019: 30th
2020: 29th
2021: 23rd

Still think I would like Taylor a whole lot more if he wasn't the offensive playcaller and handed that responsibility to someone who we know is good at it. (Also if he won more, lol)

(09-22-2022, 11:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Zac Taylor still can't figure out how to score TDs in the Red Zone even with a franchise QB, the best WR trio in the league, a solid RB, and serviceable TE. They were 23rd in Red Zone TD% last year regular season and then proceeded in the 4 postseason games to score only 7 TDs compared to 9 FGs of <40 yards. 7 postseason TDs vs 14 FGs.

Bengals Red Zone TD% Rank
2017: 11th
2018: 3rd
*Taylor Hired*
2019: 30th
2020: 29th
2021: 23rd

Still think I would like Taylor a whole lot more if he wasn't the offensive playcaller and handed that responsibility to someone who we know is good at it. (Also if he won more, lol)

It is a team game,  not sure you can just blame Taylor,  Burrow is accountable also. We figured with Burrow accuracy Red Zone would be his strength

Had we lost to the Bills and Chiefs it's one thing.

We lost to 2 mediocre teams. 1 without their starting qb. 1 with a mediocre qb.

(09-22-2022, 11:31 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: It is a team game,  not sure you can just blame Taylor,  Burrow is accountable also. We figured with Burrow accuracy Red Zone would be his strength

Absolutely could be Burrow, but I don't think he's the primary reason for at least this specific problem. That's why I included the leading up 2017, 2018, and 2019 which aren't Burrow years. Dalton, who had always been a pretty good Red Zone QB through multiple OCs, suddenly plummeted to 30th in his 1 year under Taylor.

(09-22-2022, 10:09 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well what to do qualifies as franchise QB?  Boomer and Dalton were drafted in 2nd round both played  9 years with us does not qualify? Palmer picked #1 and 7 yrs does that qualify? 

I didn't even think about Palmer which is funny because most of us considered him to be a franchise quarterback for most of his time in Cincy.  In retrospect Palmer had the talent but not the leadership to be what I'm talking about.

Dalton had the leadership but not the talent.  You can't be a franchise quarterback when you're known as the line between "good enough" and "not good enough."

What I'm talking about is a quarterback with both the talent and the leadership to build a championship winning franchise around.   I think we've had two, maybe three, before Burrow. Anderson, Esiason, and maybe Cook although we'll never know.

(09-22-2022, 09:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Palmer was a franchise QB.

So was Boomer Esiason and Ken Anderson. 

(09-23-2022, 11:25 AM)PhilHos Wrote: So was Boomer Esiason and Ken Anderson. 

Right, but he said “in the last 30 years.”

I think we're too used to expecting little and hoping to be pleasantly surprised when things go better.

This year expectations were through the roof and have hit a snag. It's not a familiar place for most Bengal fans.

best thing in this scenario is that the problems we see now are highly fixable with better scheme and execution. In past years there have been major personnel issues and talent gaps. You can't fix that stuff in-season. All of the issues we see here can be dealt with on the fly with improved decision making.

It sucks to lose those 2 games. It sucks a lot. I choose not to be overly worried because I feel like they can not only fix the issues, but become an even more formidable offense once they do. If they solve the coverages set up to stop big plays, then the big plays will eventually return. It's a mega-talented roster, but it's still a developmental process. The defensive performance and adjustments are highly encouraging.

(09-23-2022, 12:42 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Absolutely could be Burrow, but I don't think he's the primary reason for at least this specific problem. That's why I included the leading up 2017, 2018, and 2019 which aren't Burrow years. Dalton, who had always been a pretty good Red Zone QB through multiple OCs, suddenly plummeted to 30th in his 1 year under Taylor.

Dalton was benched  that year and we also had probably the worst 2/3 WRs we can remember in Ross and Tate so that one year im not going to weigh too much but Burrow is at a level we thought different than Dalton so he should be showing better regardless.. My point has been you can;t just blame a OC especially when you have a top tier QB.  

(09-23-2022, 12:02 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Had we lost to the Bills and Chiefs it's one thing.

We lost to 2 mediocre teams. 1 without their starting qb. 1 with a mediocre qb.

Lost to 2 mediocre teams with good defenses that were playing well right when the Bengals Offense (and Joe Burrow) was struggling.
It was a perfect storm.

(09-22-2022, 06:03 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Don't believe anybody thinks the season is lost yet at 0-2.

Yet the Bengals play two games in 5 days starting Sunday that could have the season teetering that way if immediate improvement is not shown.

Hopefully the team gets rolling in the right direction soon.

Season is not lost but a loss to Jets will mean stats wise 90% of season is lost since history does not bode well 0-3 making it to playoffs especially 0-2 already in AFC.

(09-23-2022, 01:02 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Season is not lost but a loss to Jets will mean stats wise 90% of season is lost since history does not bode well 0-3 making it to playoffs especially 0-2 already in AFC.

Interestingly enough the last 0-3 team to make the playoffs was DJ Reader’s Texans.

(09-22-2022, 03:01 PM)Joelist Wrote: And we all know the history of 0-2 teams...

Also know the history of the Cincinnati Bengals when they've appeared to be on a great trajectory. It's always fallen apart the following year. I was sure this would be different, but here we are with 2 bad losses to 2 bad teams.

(09-23-2022, 12:02 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Had we lost to the Bills and Chiefs it's one thing.

We lost to 2 mediocre teams. 1 without their starting qb. 1 with a mediocre qb.

I think you're being kind with the term mediocre.