(09-26-2022, 08:11 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Surprised with the below average grades on the OL.Not sure how PFF initiates their grading system.I do remember a play where Burrow came just a whisker away from a season ending injury as a result of a low hit.He grabbed his left thigh above the knee and grimaced in pain.

I thought there should have been a flag on that play.He lay their briefly,then got up and walked it off.Close.Same leg he had surgery on.If I were him,with this line,I would be wearing Don Joy Braces on both knees.

This made me realize he hasn't been wearing the brace. I hadn't even noticed. I would probably wear it if I were him but he may not like the feel of it.

(09-26-2022, 01:36 PM)Joelist Wrote: PFF is weird with OL and always has been.

It's just weird in general, 

The line played better yesterday but they still were not all that good especially in run blocking. Mixon is not to blame for the struggles in the running game. The O-line did a very poor job at opening up holes. How many times does Mixon need to be hit in the backfield before people realize the O-line is the problem.

(09-26-2022, 10:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Liability as in not allowing a sack Sunday?

That’s disingenuous and you know it

(09-26-2022, 11:45 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The line played better yesterday but they still were not all that good especially in run blocking.  Mixon is not to blame for the struggles in the running game.  The O-line did a very poor job at opening up holes.  How many times does Mixon need to be hit in the backfield before people realize the O-line is the problem.

Perhaps because the issue hasn't been resolved in the last 3 years... but I'm for one sick of only blaming the O-Line for Mixon struggles.

I'm beginning to think it's scheme related which falls on Pollack however Mixon style of running isn't optimal for this team.  He wants to dance and bounce towards the sideline.  A Rudi Johnson player would be a dream for this team.

(09-27-2022, 12:09 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Perhaps because the issue hasn't been resolved in the last 3 years... but I'm for one sick of only blaming the O-Line for Mixon struggles.

I'm beginning to think it's scheme related which falls on Pollack however Mixon style of running isn't optimal for this team.  He wants to dance and bounce towards the sideline.  A Rudi Johnson player would be a dream for this team.

What the team really needs at RB is a true dual threat who can also block.  A prime Cook or McCafferty would be money in this offense.

(09-27-2022, 12:02 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: That’s disingenuous and you know it

How so, because it flies in he face of the narrative you are trying to establish that Collins isn't any good? How many less sacks from his side can he allow than 0? Dude is playing with a brand new line and working through a back injury and you're ready to write him off after 2 games.

Top 5 on Offense

Samaje Perine- 84.5 Great game by Perine. Not so good that your 2nd string RB has the best score, though.
Tee Higgins- 77.9 Great game by Tee. Was madder than a hornet at that cheap shot. Thought NY would eject that guy.
Tyler Boyd- 77.9 Boyd got my game ball for being a spark to get the offense going. Tough as nails.
Joe Burrow- 71.9 Not his best, but trending in the right direction
Ted Karras- 58.9 This was the highest scoring offensive lineman. Sheesh.

Bottom 5 on Offense

Mitch Wilcox- 52.9 Really good pass blocking grade, really poor run blocking grade.
La'el Collins- 50.6 Didn't stand out as that bad a grade watching in real time.
Cordelle Volson- 50.1 Not a great score, but a 4th round rookie doing as well as the rest of the line is somewhat encouraging
Devin Asiasi- 47.4 Like Wilcox, a really good pass blocking grade and poor run blocking grade. Played 24 snaps
Hayden Hurst- <47.4 Score cuts off for some reason, but he was really poor blocking and didn't get many targets

Top 5 on Defense

Trey Hendrickson- 94.2 I don't think I have ever seen one guy credited with 3 FF in a single game.
DJ Reader- 86.5 We all saw what the run defense looked like when he exited.
Cam Sample- 86.2 Take a bow, Cam. Great pass rush on 22 PR snaps, great run defense on 7 RD snaps
BJ Hill- 83.1 I still can't believe the Giants made that trade
Chidobe Awuzie- 77.5 Chido is a star. CBs simply don't score that high consistently.

Bottom 5 of defense

Josh Tupou 52.9 Need more from him going forward
Logan Wilson 50.4 Who scored this guy and what was he smoking? Most athletic play possibly ever by a Bengal LB on INT
Joseph Ossai 43.7 Preseason doesn't matter...at all.
Zach Carter 43.2 Preaseason doesn't matter
Jeffrey Gunter <43.2 Preaseason doesn't matter

Bonus 5:

ADG 72.6 7th overall. Played 54 snaps and ranked elite on pass rush (but only two snaps in PR) Fantastic job
Vonn Bel 61.2 Thought he would have graded higher. Was all over the place.
Ja'Marr Chase 53.3 What's encouraging is, like Burrow, he never seems to have back to back off games
Hakeem Adeniji 57.9 Played 13 snaps as the extra tackle. Somewhat encouraging.
Jonah Williams 54.2 We need more. A lot more.

Thanks for posting.

I don't get too wrapped up in individual game PFF scores. But Flowers recovering Logan's fumble should have given him a guaranteed 100 points, no questions asked, kiss the ring, he da real MVP

(09-27-2022, 08:29 AM)Sled21 Wrote: How so, because it flies in he face of the narrative you are trying to establish that Collins isn't any good? How many less sacks from his side can he allow than 0? Dude is playing with a brand new line and working through a back injury and you're ready to write him off after 2 games.

I think he’s a great run blocker, it’s just his pass protection is ass. This is not even up for debate, even with your fredtoast tier rebuttal.

(09-27-2022, 11:20 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: I think he’s a great run blocker, it’s just his pass protection is ass. This is not even up for debate, even with your fredtoast tier rebuttal.

Did he allow a sack against NY?

(09-27-2022, 11:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Did he allow a sack against NY?

Enough with the fred impression

(09-27-2022, 11:41 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Enough with the fred impression

Didn't think so.,..

(09-26-2022, 04:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And obviously a plan to find a new starting RB next year, too.
No one really thinks Perine is a legit starting RB, right?

well does that mean you don;t think Mixon is legit or is his contract up ?

(09-26-2022, 07:08 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: No one is winning there 1 on 1 at run blocking. I honestly expect defenses to start dropping 7 in coverage and rushing 4 and daring the Bengals to run.

We need to get the Offense figured out so we can both run block and pass block seamlessly. It is clearly still a work in 
progress as it looks like we are running 2 different Offense's still. Seems like we went into this last game just trying to 
get our pass blocking down cause our run blocking sure wasn't there which is surprising with the guys we brought in 
who are all better run blockers than pass blockers. 

Also surprising with Pollack as the OL coach who is a better run blocking coach.

Maybe it will all come together soon, sure hope it is Thursday night.

(09-26-2022, 09:09 PM)ochocincos Wrote: ADG in Game 3:
72.6 overall
71.3 run defense
83.6 tackling
90.5 pass rush
59.9 coverage

Thought ADG played great, I might even start him over a healthy Pratt.

(09-26-2022, 10:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Liability as in not allowing a sack Sunday?

Well that doesn't tell all Sled. He was still giving up pressures and is not the best pass blocker right now.

Honestly the dude that looked the best to me on the OL besides Cappa was Volson. Really loved his effort and the way
he was playing most of the game. He got beat once I saw badly but Jonah got beat much more. Pretty neat seeing this 
rookie coming along on the OL.

(09-27-2022, 09:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Top 5 on Offense

Samaje Perine-  84.5  Great game by Perine.  Not so good that your 2nd string RB has the best score, though.
Tee Higgins- 77.9  Great game by Tee.  Was madder than a hornet at that cheap shot.  Thought NY would eject that guy.
Tyler Boyd- 77.9  Boyd got my game ball for being a spark to get the offense going.  Tough as nails.
Joe  Burrow-  71.9  Not his best, but trending in the right direction
Ted Karras-  58.9  This was the highest scoring offensive lineman.  Sheesh.  

Bottom 5 on Offense

Mitch Wilcox-  52.9  Really good pass blocking grade, really poor run blocking grade.  
La'el Collins-  50.6  Didn't stand out as that bad a grade watching in real time.  
Cordelle Volson-  50.1  Not a great score, but a 4th round rookie doing as well as the rest of the line is somewhat encouraging
Devin Asiasi-  47.4  Like Wilcox, a really good pass blocking grade and poor run blocking grade.  Played 24 snaps
Hayden Hurst-  <47.4  Score cuts off for some reason, but he was really poor blocking and didn't get many targets

Top 5 on Defense

Trey Hendrickson-  94.2  I don't think I have ever seen one guy credited with 3 FF in a single game.  
DJ Reader-  86.5  We all saw what the run defense looked like when he exited.  
Cam Sample-  86.2  Take a bow, Cam.  Great pass rush on 22 PR snaps, great run defense on 7 RD snaps
BJ Hill-  83.1  I still can't believe the Giants made that trade
Chidobe Awuzie-  77.5  Chido is a star.  CBs simply don't score that high consistently.  

Bottom 5 of defense

Josh Tupou  52.9  Need more from him going forward
Logan Wilson   50.4  Who scored this guy and what was he smoking?  Most athletic play possibly ever by a Bengal LB on INT
Joseph Ossai  43.7  Preseason doesn't matter...at all.
Zach Carter  43.2  Preaseason doesn't matter
Jeffrey Gunter <43.2  Preaseason doesn't matter

Bonus 5:

ADG  72.6  7th overall.  Played 54 snaps and ranked elite on pass rush (but only two snaps in PR)  Fantastic job
Vonn Bel  61.2  Thought he would have graded higher.  Was all over the place.  
Ja'Marr Chase  53.3  What's encouraging is, like Burrow, he never seems to have back to back off games
Hakeem Adeniji  57.9  Played 13 snaps as the extra tackle.  Somewhat encouraging.  
Jonah Williams 54.2  We need more.  A lot more.

Saw Zach Carter make one badazz run stop on the sideline for a 2 yard loss and Ossai could of had a sack when Trey
got his 2nd sack forced fumble. Still like these guys and Gunter, agreed on Logan don't know what they were smoking
when grading him. He is our leader on Defense and plays like it. I think he might be the best young LB in the NFL right
now. ADG is starting to become that other playmaker to the other side of him.

Like I said to Ocho I might start ADG over Pratt from here on out. This guy could be a gamechanger for us. Nothing 
against Pratt, but I think he might be leaving after this season anyways.

All true about Awuzie and the Secondary, love these guys. Bell and Bates were both all over the place same with Hilton
and Apple. Kind of hard for Dax Hill to get a shot with these guys all playing so well but that is a great thing to have
going on in the Secondary if you cannot get a guy as talented as Dax Hill on the field...

Something really special is happening.

(09-27-2022, 12:09 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Perhaps because the issue hasn't been resolved in the last 3 years... but I'm for one sick of only blaming the O-Line for Mixon struggles...

Bengals running backs were hit in the backfield 52% of the time last year.  I haven't heard the figure for the 3 games so far this year but I would imagine it's not much better.  You can't expect Mixon to run the ball effectively if the line doesnt do better than that.

I don't think it's a coincidence that both Mixon and Burrow have not started out great when the line has struggled.  I just don't understand the fans that claim the problems on offense aren't because of the O-line. The problems are because of Mixon and Burrow.  Really? 

(09-27-2022, 12:55 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Bengals running backs were hit in the backfield 52% of the time last year.  I haven't heard the figure for the 3 games so far this year but I would imagine it's not much better.  You can't expect Mixon to run the ball effectively if the line doesnt do better than that.

I don't think it's a coincidence that both Mixon and Burrow have not started out great when the line has struggled.  I just don't understand the fans that claim the problems on offense aren't because of the O-line. The problems are because of Mixon and Burrow.  Really? 

It's hard to say how bad this is without knowing figures across the league. I am not sure where you're getting this data from, but here are some data points that are somewhat related.

Cincinnati was 17th in the league in rushes that went for less than or equal to zero yards. 

Cincinnati was 9th in the league in rushes that went for less than or equal to ONE or TWO yards.

The reason I point this out is because Mixon isn't very good at breaking tackles. He never has been. He was 26th in yards after contact per attempt in 2021.  Maybe the dataset you're referencing would show that Cincinnati was just by far the worst, but using this data, I come to the conclusion that Cincinnati was maybe closer to league average here than being the worst in the league. 

(09-27-2022, 12:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We need to get the Offense figured out so we can both run block and pass block seamlessly. It is clearly still a work in 
progress as it looks like we are running 2 different Offense's still. Seems like we went into this last game just trying to 
get our pass blocking down cause our run blocking sure wasn't there which is surprising with the guys we brought in 
who are all better run blockers than pass blockers. 

Also surprising with Pollack as the OL coach who is a better run blocking coach.

Maybe it will all come together soon, sure hope it is Thursday night.


Thought ADG played great, I might even start him over a healthy Pratt.


Well that doesn't tell all Sled. He was still giving up pressures and is not the best pass blocker right now.

Honestly the dude that looked the best to me on the OL besides Cappa was Volson. Really loved his effort and the way
he was playing most of the game. He got beat once I saw badly but Jonah got beat much more. Pretty neat seeing this 
rookie coming along on the OL.

The stat sheet does not have him giving up any pressures either. Look, I'm not saying he's the best RT since Big Willie, all I'm saying is that after 2 rough games and playing with a bad back, he played well enough to keep the left DE off Burrow. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt before writing him off as a bust. Karras and Cappa neither one are grading great, and none of the 3 of them forgot how to play football. It takes a minute with a new line. They just played in 2 hostile stadiums, let's see how they do Thursday back at home. 
And I agree about Volston and said at the beginning I thought he would do well this year because of his attitude. (then I was hit with the small school stuff) He's getting better each and every game. I expect this line to be dominant 2nd half of the season. We know Pissburgh and Dallas have elite pass rushers, and the interior of the Jets Dline is still top notch. 

Pressures don’t show in the stat book, so Collins hasn’t actually been bad in pass pro...

Mental gymnastics like you read about