(10-03-2022, 05:07 PM)Joelist Wrote: Basically two things need to happen:

1) Ditch the wide zone run scheme. Our OL (especially the new right side) are optimal at power running so do what you're good at.

2) Whoever is back there need to not dance and just hit the hole fast and hard - no nonsense. Allow one cut at maximum. Actually that is similar to coaching given another back who came into the league and danced too much until Mike Shanahan laid down the law of "one cut max then take off north and south" rule. That RB was Terrell Davis and that coaching caused his career to flourish.

(10-03-2022, 05:12 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm thinking you may well be onto something here. Not sure the wide zone is working good for us? As well as the quit dancing and hit the hole.

I also think handing him the ball from the shotgun is also preventing Mixon from hitting the hole faster and makes him indecisive. 

Years past, I was shocked that he ran better from the gun, but I think he needs to take the handoff from the backfield now. I also think it forces the defense to commit to the run sooner to stop him, which would also help in protecting Joe since our pass blocking has been so bad (improved the past 2 games but it's still bad).

(10-03-2022, 07:47 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I think it’s a lot on Joe. Every other back I saw yesterday was head and shoulders above Joe. They don’t all have all world lines. Absolutely nobody runs for zero yards time after time. If he gets 4 yards it feels like he just broke one. It’s amazing the Bengals have any offense with close to zero run game.

Right

And that's the thing ya know. Sure you can find many plays where the blocking wasn't the greatest and a few where it was just plain bad. But there's more to the story.

There's also many plays where the blocking is good and Mixon still only gets a minimal gain. 

I just feel if this next to zero threat of the run continues it's just going to get worse and worse for Joe Burrow and the Bengals chances of winning games. 

Joe blows so far, but hopefully he gets it figured out.

How about the play calling??? I think Joe Mixon has more touches than any running back in the league this year.Each and every time they enter the red zone It’s Mixon on First down.Either handing off or throwing him the ball.And also usually on second,and sometimes third.Teams are teeing off on Mixon because they study film,and know when he’s getting the ball.

It doesn’t hurt to throw on first down sometimes.

(10-03-2022, 09:03 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: How about the play calling??? I think Joe Mixon has more touches than any running back in the league this year.Each and every time they enter the red zone It’s Mixon on First down.Either handing off or throwing him the ball.And also usually on second,and sometimes third.Teams are teeing off on Mixon because they study film,and know when he’s getting the ball.

It doesn’t hurt to throw on first down sometimes.

Oh I agree

I doubt you're going to see any critique's where play calling is singled out as one of our strengths. 

The running game should improve once we change running backs. This year next year the year after Zac is pretty stubborn.

(10-03-2022, 08:37 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Joe blows so far, but hopefully he gets it figured out.

I sure hope so as well. But every carry that goes by for 1 yard it gets harder and harder to maintain hope.

Fwiw Perine’s Bama highlights are amazing lol

(10-03-2022, 11:37 PM)Housh Wrote: Fwiw Perine’s Bama highlights are amazing lol

44th among qualified RBs in YPC, literally the worst in the NFL.

If you're THAT bad, you can't blame it on others.

(10-03-2022, 04:33 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Mixon is done. Average shelf life in the NFL for RB's is 3 or 4 years. Wish he could've stayed on longer, but he's done and it's overwhelmingly obvious. And blaming Burrow or anyone else for "bad handoffs" or not selling the play action fake is absolute BS.

He'll be gone next year, might sign with someone else next season and barely play. But he's done.

How so? If you aren't selling the fake, then play action isn't going to work. QB9 isn't some infallible shoe in HOFer. At least not yet. He's got work to do like the rest of them. He played like absolute dog shit week 1. Week 2 wasn't much better. Blaming all of the QBs errors on others is what's absolute BS. Perhaps you need to watch some film on Boomer Esiason to see how play action is supposed to look. Maybe Joe should too. OP is absolutely right, neither Joe is doing very well at that.

(10-04-2022, 07:35 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 44th among qualified RBs in YPC, literally the worst in the NFL.

If you're THAT bad, you can't blame it on others.

He's been really bad this year for sure.... he's top of the league in attempts too.

(10-04-2022, 08:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: He's been really bad this year for sure.... he's top of the league in attempts too.

Saquon Barkley passed him by 2 carries. 2 more carries for 239 more yards, literally more than double Mixon. Lol

I will say that no other qualified RB in the league has less than 3.0 YPC, so Mixon is WAY last. In fact, the 32nd ranked qualified RB is at 4.1 YPC, or 1.4 YPC ahead of Mixon. So it's not just bad but truly terrible on a whole different level.

(10-04-2022, 07:35 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 44th among qualified RBs in YPC, literally the worst in the NFL.

If you're THAT bad, you can't blame it on others.

Oh I for sure believe the lion's share of the problem is Mixon himself ! I'm just trying to figure out what are the contributing factors that perhaps we can fix ?

(10-04-2022, 08:45 AM)Wyche Wrote: How so? If you aren't selling the fake, then play action isn't going to work. QB9 isn't some infallible shoe in HOFer. At least not yet. He's got work to do like the rest of them. He played like absolute dog shit week 1. Week 2 wasn't much better. Blaming all of the QBs errors on others is what's absolute BS. Perhaps you need to watch some film on Boomer Esiason to see how play action is supposed to look. Maybe Joe should too. OP is absolutely right, neither Joe is doing very well at that.

Right on

I remember watching the Gruden QB camp thing I dunno?  8 0r 10 years ago ? If memory serves he was critiquing Manziel pre draft. They were going over film of handoffs and play action fakes. Ole Johnny handed the ball off to RB and just stopped and dropped hands and stood there.

Gruden was like NO NO NO. He showed Manziel film of P. Manning handing the ball off and then rolling out faking he still had the ball and going into passing stance. Gruden was like there Johnny, THERE. This is a 10 year vet or whatever, future HOFer and see how hard he's working! See how he's selling it?

Same thing with Joe Mixon on the play action pass. My grandma knows Mixon doesn't have the ball 1/2 step after the fake handoff. On many plays he's not even barely trying to make D think he has the ball !

Am I saying this is 100% the entire problem ? NO Fix this and everything is all better ? NO

I'm simply saying their seems to be a lack of effort on many plays and it's not helping, at all. In fooling the defense. And yes Joe Burrow is guilty as well.

On shotgun handoffs it would help, I would guess, if Burrow put a little more effort into making the D buy that he still has the ball, that's all.

(10-04-2022, 09:02 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Saquon Barkley passed him by 2 carries. 2 more carries for 239 more yards, literally more than double Mixon. Lol

I will say that no other qualified RB in the league has less than 3.0 YPC, so Mixon is WAY last. In fact, the 32nd ranked qualified RB is at 4.1 YPC, or 1.4 YPC ahead of Mixon. So it's not just bad but truly terrible on a whole different level.

Yes, I heard exactly what you pointed out on the radio yesterday. It's epic bad. My hope is that this meeting and film session they had together bears a little fruit. He had all of the linemen, backs, and TEs over to his house to go over what he was expecting and what his blockers were expecting. This isn't the first time he's done this. Remember a few years ago when he was struggling, then turned on the rest of the year? He did the same thing then. Sure hope it works again.

(10-04-2022, 09:22 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right on

I remember watching the Gruden QB camp thing I dunno?  8 0r 10 years ago ? If memory serves he was critiquing Manziel pre draft. They were going over film of handoffs and play action fakes. Ole Johnny handed the ball off to RB and just stopped and dropped hands and stood there.

Gruden was like NO NO NO. He showed Manziel film of P. Manning handing the ball off and then rolling out faking he still had the ball and going into passing stance. Gruden was like there Johnny, THERE. This is a 10 year vet or whatever, future HOFer and see how hard he's working! See how he's selling it?

Same thing with Joe Mixon on the play action pass. My grandma knows Mixon doesn't have the ball 1/2 step after the fake handoff. On many plays he's not even barely trying to make D think he has the ball !

Am I saying this is 100% the entire problem ? NO Fix this and everything is all better ? NO

I'm simply saying their seems to be a lack of effort on many plays and it's not helping, at all. In fooling the defense. And yes Joe Burrow is guilty as well.

On shotgun handoffs it would help, I would guess, if Burrow put a little more effort into making the D buy that he still has the ball, that's all.

Right, you just can't go through the motions. I watched a little of last night's game, and what stood out now that I've read this thread is how both teams do exactly what you say we should be doing. I noticed a lot of similar plays that we run, but with better execution at the point of attack, and better play fakes.

Also of note '74, it does seem Mixon is tipping our hand on run and pass plays based on his stance. He's gotta fix that ASAP.

(10-04-2022, 09:04 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Oh I for sure believe the lion's share of the problem is Mixon himself ! I'm just trying to figure out what are the contributing factors that perhaps we can fix ?

It's going to have to be a combination of both Coaching 101 and working with him on basic fundamentals sprinkled in with a few more carries for Perrine. It's criminal that Perrine did not carry the ball more after his performance in the Jets game.

(10-04-2022, 11:25 AM)higgy100 Wrote: It's going to have to be a combination of both Coaching 101 and working with him on basic fundamentals sprinkled in with a few more carries for Perrine. It's criminal that Perrine did not carry the ball more after his performance in the Jets game.

I agree, but it's important to note that we were running unbalanced line with an extra lineman during that series. That said, they need to start exploring different options if Mixon continues to struggle.

(10-04-2022, 11:30 AM)Wyche Wrote: I agree, but it's important to note that we were running unbalanced line with an extra lineman during that series. That said, they need to start exploring different options if Mixon continues to struggle.

I assume you're talking about Perrine against the Jets? I did state last week that also one of the big reasons Perrine shined against the Jets is that they were also trying to strip the ball from him which is very common in this league when offenses are rather challenged and against the wall late in a game. Still, he ran hard, gained confidence and stays much lower to the ground than Mixon does (who runs straight up) and Perrine accelerates much faster into the hole. He's alot harder to find for the DL.