(10-10-2022, 01:06 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Burrow + Chase + Boyd + McPherson + Mixon + Hurst + Perine = 17 points? Really?

That’s too much talent on the field at one time to suck so badly.

The one answer to this equation that no one wants to talk about is maybe those guys aren’t as good as we think they are.

I don’t believe that, but it is a possibility. I think we are seeing a coaching deficit, but a realistic answer could still be that we are overrating how talented they are.

Everybody knows I lean heavily towards taking the points and not gambling unless necessary.

Especially against a division rival where both teams are struggling to get TD's and you're down by 3 late in the game. Get it that we all wanted 7, but tie the game up at the very least.

Then the play call was atrocious and Burrow even attempting that shovel pass into that kind of traffic was not bright either. Even if caught he was not getting into the end zone.

Thought when we went for it on 4th down earlier it was a silly call as well. Higgins is out and you keep both Chase and Boyd in the backfield for a double reverse pass play ? Believe Chase needed to run a route to keep the defense honest to give a play like this a chance but still why, that's not the place or time for this call imo.

Anyway rant over and need to pick up the pieces and start winning or our chances will evaporate.

Yet this team could and probably should be 5-0

Have Zac explain how on that drive from the two yard line Mixon didn't get a touch. On a night when he was running well. Answer could only be terrible coaching. Two pass plays and a WR reverse pass to the QB from the 2 yard line that lost 10 yards, are you serious. Zac sucks in the red zone big time. Spend all this money on the O-Line so you could pound it in from the 2 yard line. At least give Mixon a try

Only someone with brain damage makes the calls Zac made - it almost felt like he was throwing the game to the Rats. It's time for him to make actual sound decisions as a coach instead of relying on analytics as a substitution for sound instincts.

(10-10-2022, 01:09 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: The one answer to this equation that no one wants to talk about is maybe those guys aren’t as good as we think they are.

I don’t believe that, but it is a possibility. I think we are seeing a coaching deficit, but a realistic answer could still be that we are overrating how talented they are.

That is a remote possibility but a possibility nonetheless. I would love to see what a more aggressive offensive coordinator could do with this bunch.

(10-10-2022, 01:13 AM)Joelist Wrote: Only someone with brain damage makes the calls Zac made - it almost felt like he was throwing the game to the Rats. It's time for him to make actual sound decisions as a coach instead of relying on analytics as a substitution for sound instincts.

From the two you either go play action, punch it in through either A-gap, or do a quarterback sneak. If that doesn’t work kick a field goal on fourth down. Get SOMETHING for it.

When the 4th down play that failed Zac and Collins could be seen yelling at each other on the sideline. Zac grabs him by his jersey

(10-10-2022, 01:20 AM)cincyfan429 Wrote: When the 4th down play that failed Zac and Collins could be seen yelling at each other on the sideline. Zac grabs him by his jersey

Collins and Zac both suck

lets stop giving collins a pass. He sucks. Total bust

(10-10-2022, 12:48 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, the offensive playcalling and scheme is bad.

We're terrible every 1st quarter.

Then, we turn it on just enough to lose a close game.

The players seem to have little enthusiasm. Makes me wonder...

Chase has completely checked out. I could see him and Burrow wanting out of here and this rinky dink offense and it's coaches..

I believe that's 3 loses by a combined total of 8 points. Gotta take the points in a low scoring division game imo.

Everybody throws these simple analytics out there but its more complex than that and other variables need computed into the equation.

Like winning that game the analytics say you have a 49% chance of making the playoffs at 3-2, don't get the play and lose then analytics say you fall to a 22% playoff chance. Probably less factoring in being winless in the division if losing.

Its just not the time to gamble on a coin flip

It was a big game and Zac Harbaughed on that call imo.

(10-10-2022, 01:11 AM)cincyfan429 Wrote: Have Zac explain how on that drive from the two yard line Mixon didn't get a touch. On a night when he was running well. Answer could only be terrible coaching. Two pass plays and a WR reverse pass to the QB from the 2 yard line that lost 10 yards, are you serious. Zac sucks in the red zone big time. Spend all this money on the O-Line so you could pound it in from the 2 yard line. At least give Mixon a try

After the last 2 plays of the super bowl, he should have learned. Funny enough, if they are a yard shorter after the botched trick play they probably kick the FG on 4th and 3.  Didn't hear the presser but he should save it, take the fine and apologize to his defense instead of rationalizing the worst gl series in recent memory.  At least the SB in Detroit had logical calls. 

I've never been more discouraged after a turnover in a 3 point game with most of a quarter to play.  

(10-10-2022, 01:09 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: The one answer to this equation that no one wants to talk about is maybe those guys aren’t as good as we think they are.

I don’t believe that, but it is a possibility. I think we are seeing a coaching deficit, but a realistic answer could still be that we are overrating how talented they are.

I'm really starting to believe most of us have overrated Burrow.. He's not elite..

(10-10-2022, 01:06 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Burrow + Chase + Boyd + McPherson + Mixon + Hurst + Perine = 17 points?  Really?  

That’s too much talent on the field at one time to suck so badly.

Burrow+ Chase +Boyd + McPherson + Mixon + Hurst + Perine + Zac Taylor = 17 points.   Makes perfect damn sense.

(10-10-2022, 01:22 AM)Tony Wrote: Chase has completely checked out. I could see him and Burrow wanting out of here and this rinky dink offense and it's coaches..

Same, Zac changed the culture but those 2 are your future and only chance at a SB.  Zac has to show accountability by firing Callahan without dramatic change next week so they have the bye to prep for a move.    

Zac can call the plays and save his job or maybe use Walter's in the same role.  The defense believes in Lou, promote him next year and buy a respectable OC if Zac can't turn this around.

As I said in the gameday thread, that set of plays and result looked awfully similar to that debacle the Broncos pulled at the end of the Thursday night game...they've been getting shellacked for it since then.

I don't think ZT is as hopeless as Hackett and I don't think Burrow is as busted as Wilson, but that was still a bit too close for comfort to those bums.

(10-10-2022, 01:22 AM)Tony Wrote: Chase has completely checked out. I could see him and Burrow wanting out of here and this rinky dink offense and it's coaches..

Chase might. Burrow isn't the kind of petulant guy to bail on a team. 

Someone said Burrow isn't as good as advertised. I think it's a Zac thing. Have you seen the dude play? He has moments of sheer genius. And yes I'm biased but... of all dudes to say they're overrated I don't think Burrow is one of them.

(10-10-2022, 01:34 AM)Tony Wrote: I'm really starting to believe most of us have overrated Burrow.. He's not elite..

I’ve never seen someone flip flop back and forth as much as you do. He’ll have a couple good games and you’ll be right back on the bandwagon. Book it.

(10-10-2022, 01:40 AM)phil413 Wrote: Same, Zac changed the culture but those 2 are your future and only chance at a SB.  Zac has to show accountability by firing Callahan without dramatic change next week so they have the bye to prep for a move.    

Zac can call the plays and save his job or maybe use Walter's in the same role.  The defense believes in Lou, promote him next year and buy a respectable OC if Zac can't turn this around.

I'm not saying we need to fire ZT or anything, he's here for years regardless.  With that being said, did he change the culture or did we just get better players?

In 2019 he was supposed to be an instant upgrade over Marvin and get Dalton back to 2015 form and get Ross looking like an actual 1st round pick.  A few games into that season we went from resurrecting that squad to "Well, no one could win with this roster."

Then in 2020 he lost games with and without Burrow.

Then 2021 was glorious and Burrow and Chase were instant magic.

Now we are in 2022 and we're looking fairly average so far.  It's hard to say ZT changed our culture when he can only win when Burrow and Chase are playing lights out.  There are changes beyond Burrow and Chase, but how often do we see Burrow have an off day and ZT step up and bail him out?  Maybe it happens more than I notice.  Most NFL teams live and die by the QB, but I sincerely doubt we'll ever see NFL analysts look at the ZT and Burrow era and ask "Which one of them really made it work?"


tl;dr - ZT found a way to win in the NFL when a #1 overall QB and a top 5 pick WR are playing out of their minds. 

(10-10-2022, 01:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

I’ve never seen someone flip flop back and forth as much as you do. He’ll have a couple good games and you’ll be right back on the bandwagon. Book it.

I still think hea good. He's just not elite. Elite QBs can beat a cover 2 and don't fold for long periods of time like he does. I still wouldn't trade him for anyone. I'm just backing off the elite talk.