(10-10-2022, 08:27 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I know Collinsworth was calling for it. Boyd has fallen along the way side. I can understand if Chase and Higgins are on the field but it's puzzling in a game like last night with no Higgins and a great match up. He should've been a major part of the game plan last night and instead he gets 4 targets.

yep do not understand them not targeting Boyd more and he has produced when they do it seems. 

remember those back shoulder passes to Chase being money last year and was amazed at their chemistry but this year they look like rookies trying to develop chemistry. Something is awry  

Just feel like Joe and O-line have been way off to start the season. 

Now Joe did have a last minute surgery which doesn't help and the O-line looks to be improving so it should get better. Just got to hope its not too late by then. 

 

(10-10-2022, 08:27 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I know Collinsworth was calling for it. Boyd has fallen along the way side. I can understand if Chase and Higgins are on the field but it's puzzling in a game like last night with no Higgins and a great match up. He should've been a major part of the game plan last night and instead he gets 4 targets.

There shouldn't be any "understanding" of going to Chase and Higgins over Boyd.  You attack the weakness on the other team.  Not their strength.  Peyton Manning would take what a defense gave him.  Sometimes it was Harrison, sometimes it was Clark, sometimes it was Reggie Wayne, sometimes it was Edgerrin James.  

The point is they knew their fourth best option was a mismatch for your fourth best coverage guy and they attacked it until a team altered, which would allow them to take some shot.  That is how they came out and scored so many times their first couple drives and teams would have to adjust.  It was high %, and it was effective.  

(10-11-2022, 07:54 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There shouldn't be any "understanding" of going to Chase and Higgins over Boyd.  You attack the weakness on the other team.  Not their strength.  Peyton Manning would take what a defense gave him.  Sometimes it was Harrison, sometimes it was Clark, sometimes it was Reggie Wayne, sometimes it was Edgerrin James.  

The point is they knew their fourth best option was a mismatch for your fourth best coverage guy and they attacked it until a team altered, which would allow them to take some shot.  That is how they came out and scored so many times their first couple drives and teams would have to adjust.  It was high %, and it was effective.  

You just go through your progressions and throw it to the open guy. This isn't ***** rocket science like everyone wants to make it out to be. 

You read the defense pre snap. You figure out your primary target based on that. If they are covered, then go to your next progression etc. 

Boyd should be FEASTING this year and should be the first option on a lot of the stuff against two high safety looks in the middle of the field, but he has been a complete after thought. I don't get it. 

When i first saw this quote i asked “Then why the hell are we playing if people have just accepted nothing is deep?”

Iv never heard a QB say some shit like this

(10-11-2022, 10:10 AM)Housh Wrote: When i first saw this quote i asked “Then why the hell are we playing if people have just accepted nothing is deep?”

Iv never heard a QB say some shit like this

Mahomes went through the exact same thing not too long ago. It's something that QBs who excel at pushing the ball down the field have to develop through in the NFL. 

There are guys open. On the int Burrow threw to Chase, there were like 2-3 guys open. Some very open.

Chase wasn't open...at all.

(10-11-2022, 03:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are guys open. On the int Burrow threw to Chase, there were like 2-3 guys open. Some very open.

Chase wasn't open...at all.

I think, just an opinion, that when Zac said during a presser that Tyler Boyd needs more targets and that it would help our offense a lot..... it's a nod to Joe Burrow. If people can deduce from vague comment that the locker room is turning on Taylor, then I can deduce that Zac is calling out Joe for throwing into triple coverage when you have 2-3 guys wide open.

You have multiple targets each play, it's up to the QB who gets them. So, when people say that we should have targeted Boyd more in Baltimore, I'm looking more at who's throwing than what is called. If it was the call, then I would say Joe had to throw into double/triple coverage or take a sack because no one was open. I'm sure this will go over a few people's heads.....or cause a meltdown.

(10-10-2022, 07:56 AM)Trademark Wrote: Yeah I don't like the vibe either, seems like his swag is going away

It's the truth.  And until somebody can figure out how to work the middle the field other than Hurst, its going to stay that way.

We have to make teams pay for playing 2 deep safeties and soft coverage - and the answer isn't always running the ball.

I guess if we have to check down on some plays,  why not have Evans in the game more?  He showed last year that he was great catching the ball.  The scheme is going to have to change a little bit with all these soft coverages, and we have the physical WRs to get YAC.  IT shouldn't be this hard.

(10-11-2022, 04:28 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: It's the truth.  And until somebody can figure out how to work the middle the field other than Hurst, its going to stay that way.

We have to make teams pay for playing 2 deep safeties and soft coverage - and the answer isn't always running the ball.

I guess if we have to check down on some plays,  why not have Evans in the game more?  He showed last year that he was great catching the ball.  The scheme is going to have to change a little bit with all these soft coverages, and we have the physical WRs to get YAC.  IT shouldn't be this hard.

I'm a Burrow defender to the core, but a lot of this is on him.  He's got to get though his progressions and find the open guy.  Take 8 yards when the long ball isn't there.  He has to make the decision to choose intermediate and short targets before defenses stop dropping 2 safeties to prevent the long ball.  Prove that you can dink and dunk consistently through long drives and defenses will cinch up.  This is a one dimensional offense right now and defenses will sell out to take that dimension away.

I think Evans on the field is just too much of a tell right now.  He has little to no ability to run between the tackles and his presence almost certainly would indicate a pass play.  I'm not sure what kind of blocker he is, but that could also be a factor.  FWIW, I think Perine has done the job we want Evans to do more than acceptably.  He can block, catch, get yards after, and even has a decent bit of physicality to his game.  If anything, I'd let him eat a bit more until he proves he can't get it done.  He hasn't yet.

They've played 3 bottom-5 passing defenses this year. 4 of the 5 teams they played had below average scoring defenses, too.

(10-11-2022, 06:21 PM)samhain Wrote: I'm a Burrow defender to the core, but a lot of this is on him.  He's got to get though his progressions and find the open guy.  Take 8 yards when the long ball isn't there.  He has to make the decision to choose intermediate and short targets before defenses stop dropping 2 safeties to prevent the long ball.  Prove that you can dink and dunk consistently through long drives and defenses will cinch up.  This is a one dimensional offense right now and defenses will sell out to take that dimension away.

I think Evans on the field is just too much of a tell right now.  He has little to no ability to run between the tackles and his presence almost certainly would indicate a pass play.  I'm not sure what kind of blocker he is, but that could also be a factor.  FWIW, I think Perine has done the job we want Evans to do more than acceptably.  He can block, catch, get yards after, and even has a decent bit of physicality to his game.  If anything, I'd let him eat a bit more until he proves he can't get it done.  He hasn't yet.

The more and more I look at it, the more I'm seeing #9 as the biggest issue. If there weren't other players open, I'd say it's a scheme/design issue. But when you throw to a double or triple covered Chase and Hurst and Boyd are standing there open..... it's a QB problem.

I can get behind the notion a bit of this is Burrows fault. As much as we'd all hate to admit it I think he's in love with the deep ball and hopefully it doesn't take rock bottom to force a mindset change.

Boyd should be getting 7-10 targets a game until the defense adjusts it's really that simple.

(10-11-2022, 06:30 PM)Wyche Wrote: The more and more I look at it, the more I'm seeing #9 as the biggest issue. If there weren't other players open, I'd say it's a scheme/design issue. But when you throw to a double or triple covered Chase and Hurst and Boyd are standing there open..... it's a QB problem.

In fairness to Joe, he's probably still a bit shell shocked from the early part of the season.  Maybe he's getting used to the line actually providing him some time.  There have been plays when he's had a ton of time and I'm waiting for him to start slicing up a defense, but it never seems to happen. He's opting for check downs or Chase almost every time regardless of time.  Maybe as trust builds he will get back to seeing the field better and making more productive choices.  Dude was getting molly-whopped back there for like 3 straight games counting the Super Bowl.  It probably got his head a little screwed up.

Just watched a few Bengals podcasts. They are saying Burrow is criticizing Zacs scheme here... I gotta agree..

(10-11-2022, 09:30 PM)samhain Wrote: In fairness to Joe, he's probably still a bit shell shocked from the early part of the season.  Maybe he's getting used to the line actually providing him some time.  There have been plays when he's had a ton of time and I'm waiting for him to start slicing up a defense, but it never seems to happen. He's opting for check downs or Chase almost every time regardless of time.  Maybe as trust builds he will get back to seeing the field better and making more productive choices.  Dude was getting molly-whopped back there for like 3 straight games counting the Super Bowl.  It probably got his head a little screwed up.

I think that's very fair, and I agree. The first two games of this year was probably worse than last year. That's gotta factor into the equation. 

(10-11-2022, 09:30 PM)samhain Wrote: In fairness to Joe, he's probably still a bit shell shocked from the early part of the season.  Maybe he's getting used to the line actually providing him some time.  There have been plays when he's had a ton of time and I'm waiting for him to start slicing up a defense, but it never seems to happen. He's opting for check downs or Chase almost every time regardless of time.  Maybe as trust builds he will get back to seeing the field better and making more productive choices.  Dude was getting molly-whopped back there for like 3 straight games counting the Super Bowl.  It probably got his head a little screwed up.

Agree with you but you can also include the other 20 games last year in getting molly-whopped. Lots of bad habits including footwork can develop.