Ja’marr routes vs JJ’s routes. Night & DEY. pic.twitter.com/IXcYoyX4H7

— Wincy (@WincinnatiPod) October 12, 2022

This is absolutely shocking when you actually look at it. These coaches have to do a much better job of putting their players in a position to thrive. Cause this ain’t it.

Our offensive scheme and play calling has been amateur hour all season. They must do better.

Interesting..... I'd like to see it for the rest of the guys too.

Chase's routes are literally what my nephew used to run when we played Madden years ago when he was 8.

(10-12-2022, 02:57 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Our offensive scheme and play calling has been amateur hour all season.  They must do better.

Right, I just don't get it. ZT and his offense is in it's 4th season now and many plays it's like we're running a vanilla preseason O.

(10-12-2022, 02:39 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Ja’marr routes vs JJ’s routes. Night & DEY. pic.twitter.com/IXcYoyX4H7

— Wincy (@WincinnatiPod) October 12, 2022

This is absolutely shocking when you actually look at it. These coaches have to do a much better job of putting their players in a position to thrive. Cause this ain’t it.

But But But 

"Offensive Genius...."

If Taylor was Only the OC he'd like have been fired by now.

Is it really the route tree that is the problem? I mean it's not like they have all 4 targets running the same route on every play. Could it be that our QB is just having tunnel vision on one particular target, and failing to recognize the other targets that are open for moderate to significant gains on the same play?

So who draws up the route trees anyway, the head coach or the offensive coordinator. While Taylor is calling most plays (we assume) wouldn't it be Callahan's job to draw up the plays before the installs??

(10-12-2022, 02:39 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Ja’marr routes vs JJ’s routes. Night & DEY. pic.twitter.com/IXcYoyX4H7

— Wincy (@WincinnatiPod) October 12, 2022

This is absolutely shocking when you actually look at it. These coaches have to do a much better job of putting their players in a position to thrive. Cause this ain’t it.

I notice JJ's are longer.  Could it be that Cousin's has more time than Burrow?

(10-12-2022, 08:53 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote:  Could it be that our QB is just having tunnel vision on one particular target, and failing to recognize the other targets that are open for moderate to significant gains on the same play?

Yes. My thoughts this year after weeks 1 & 2 is they're playing too conservative because of the sack count and the heat the team was getting because Burrow was still getting mauled after an OL overhaul. Main goal is to get the ball out of Burrow's hands. This doesn't leave him much time to look at the field. Last week we ran more screen plays than ever which does 2 things. 1. Get's the ball out quickly. 2. Hides the ineptitude of the OL. 

If we look at what makes Burrow successful, it sure isn't the quick release. Burrow has a good pocket presence, is a good runner and great at extending plays to find his target. Honestly, I think he thrives on panic play. Looking at the routes above, I would love to compare last year vs. this year. 

Look at Jeffersons route depth the deep crosses
Doesn't simple football logic dictate Jefferson
Has more chances to catch the ball in stride
And get YAC?
Chase is getting targets so close to
The LOS it's easy for defenders to close in
And gang tackle

(10-12-2022, 02:39 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Ja’marr routes vs JJ’s routes. Night & DEY. pic.twitter.com/IXcYoyX4H7

— Wincy (@WincinnatiPod) October 12, 2022

This is absolutely shocking when you actually look at it. These coaches have to do a much better job of putting their players in a position to thrive. Cause this ain’t it.

Any way to see chases routes from last years two games vs bmore? OR what has his routes looked like with Higgins on the field?

(10-12-2022, 09:21 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I notice JJ's are longer.  Could it be that Cousin's has more time than Burrow?

Absolutely and alot is also by habit at this point. JB has developed some bad habits, obviously, with the lack of time last year and into this year and it's not easy to overcome those. Plus, it's awfully difficult to look at this chart and say Chase needs to run the same routes as Jefferson.

I'm not saying that ZT doesn't need to get his head out of his ass as I've said it before all the times the running game wasn't working, yet, he would still give Mixon the ball 2X inside the 10 for nothing. All of this is also based on the offensive philosophy and concepts they incorporate. Jefferson is also the deep threat for them. Bengals have Tee Higgins that also plays on the outside and is even as good a deep threat or even better than Chase.Everything works itself out when you can run the ball better on 1st/2nd down than they have the past couple years. 2nd/3rd and 3/4 is a world of difference over 3rd and 7.

(10-12-2022, 09:21 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I notice JJ's are longer.  Could it be that Cousin's has more time than Burrow?

That's an interesting thought.... could be.

(10-12-2022, 09:21 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I notice JJ's are longer.  Could it be that Cousin's has more time than Burrow?

Seriously. 

Just noticed there are only 12ish routes here. I'm pretty sure we threw the ball more than 12 times. So these are only the routes that Chase (and Jefferson) I presume was targeted, correct?

So I would guess if you had ALL the routes Chase ran, there'd be a lot more all over the field (or maybe a little more over the field). Maybe it's not a matter of not using Chase in different ways, but rather that Burrow is only throwing to Chase on these particular routes for a particular reason. I mean, it's possible that ALL of Chase's routes all game are like this, but I would think if you want to criticize how Chase is used, you'd look at ALL the plays, not just the ones he was targeted. 

Not a single comeback ,sluggo ,or pivot route
In Jamar's route tree.

I've been screaming it - yes play calling is an issue, but the bigger issue is play design.

Even if Taylor were to give up play calling, the same crappy plays are still being called by someone else.

(10-12-2022, 08:53 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is it really the route tree that is the problem?  I mean it's not like they have all 4 targets running the same route on every play.  Could it be that our QB is just having tunnel vision on one particular target, and failing to recognize the other targets that are open for moderate to significant gains on the same play?

Chase didn't cross the hash once the entire game. That is a problem. 

Throwing the middle of the field is an issue for this entire team. They didnt throw between the hashes ONCE all game against the Ravens. That's a huge issue especially playing against cover 2. 

IDK if its Burrow missing open guys in the middle of the field, guys not getting open in the middle of the field, or if they just don't run guys in the middle of the field - that's the million-dollar question - and looking at Chases route chart I'd say its the latter. I'd love to see Boyd and Hursts charts. 

(10-12-2022, 08:57 AM)Sled21 Wrote: So who draws up the route trees anyway, the head coach or the offensive coordinator. While Taylor is calling most plays (we assume) wouldn't it be Callahan's job to draw up the plays before the installs??

It sounds like it's a joint effort with more of the responsibility resting on Callahan. 

(10-12-2022, 09:21 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I notice JJ's are longer.  Could it be that Cousin's has more time than Burrow?

I am looking more at JJ going over the middle of the field - crossing routes, slants, etc.