How good would this defense be if Zim were still here? Just a harmless hypothetical, no need to hate.

(12-11-2015, 01:03 AM)Utts Wrote: How good would this defense be if Zim were still here? Just a harmless hypothetical, no need to hate.

Not hating at all, but we're 1st in scoring defense and 10th in yards allowed. The sacks and turnovers are good and we've allowed a paltry 81.1 rating to opposing passers.

In short, I don't see how Zim could top that. 

They would finish top 5.

Zimmer is a great coach and did great things for us. It's sad to see him go, but it's time to move on. We have Guenther. Who, although struggled last year, has greatly improved this season and has done much better disguising coverage. Especially safety coverage.

vikes lost by 3

(12-11-2015, 04:13 AM)Sabretooth Wrote: vikes lost by 3

With a questionable decision to run one more pass play with 13 seconds on the clock, no timeouts, that resulted in a game ending strip sack fumble.

I love Zim too, but we all need to see that every coach makes debatable decisions at times.  That's why they get paid the big bucks.  

These decisions have to be made with little time to discuss and are difficult to make.  When that decision doesn't work out, it's easy to be second guessed in hindsight. 

(12-11-2015, 10:15 AM)LebanonFan Wrote: With a questionable decision to run one more pass play with 13 seconds on the clock, no timeouts, that resulted in a game ending strip sack fumble.

I love Zim too, but we all need to see that every coach makes debatable decisions at times.  That's why they get paid the big bucks.  

These decisions have to be made with little time to discuss and are difficult to make.  When that decision doesn't work out, it's easy to be second guessed in hindsight. 

Being a Defensive minded coach you think he deferred to Norv on that final drive?

He was playing for the win. He's ballsy, but we already knew that.

Zimmer was a great coach for us, but I kind of forgot about the guy, honestly. Pauly G has been doing a great job with this defense.

Not sure it would be much different. The impact player is Burflict.

not so great to not kick the field goal on 3rd down, cost him the game

(12-11-2015, 10:52 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Being a Defensive minded coach you think he deferred to Norv on that final drive?

He may have, but he is responsible for the decision regardless.  

Wit that said, I agree with the decision.  Gotta own it when it doesn't work.

My point was more in the neighborood of drawing that line to Marvin's decisions we second guess.  Seems like it highlights that point when a coach we universally love (Zim) comes out on the wrong end.  Would we show the same respect for Marvin making the same decision?

(12-11-2015, 01:36 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: They would finish top 5.

The Bengals are a top 5 defense this year, no doubt. There's more to defense than "total yards". 

(12-11-2015, 01:03 AM)Utts Wrote: How good would this defense be if Zim were still here? Just a harmless hypothetical, no need to hate.

I think I might potentially like Guenther better (if he continues to trend upwards into years three and four as a coordinator). Zim is awesome, no doubt. I just feel like his defenses were part of why we'd lose big games... He seems like a law of averages kind of guy. Play straight up, don't bet big on a blitz or exotic call, and trust that your defense will get the job done more often than not.

It's a great strategy for normal games, but I feel like you have to go big or go home in the big-boy moments (prime time, playoffs, etc...). In those moments, his defenses failed as much as Dalton and the offense. I feel like Guenther is willing to take more calculated risks.

Fortune favors the bold, and I feel Guenther might be willing to be a little more bold.



Still, though, I'd poop my pants if we lost Marvin or Guenther, and Zimmer took their job. He's a Heck of a coach.

(12-11-2015, 11:17 AM)corpjet Wrote: not so great to not kick the field goal on 3rd down, cost him the game

That's on Bridgewater.  Game situation awareness.

(12-11-2015, 01:36 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: They would finish top 5.

Zimmer is a great coach and did great things for us. It's sad to see him go, but it's time to move on. We have Guenther. Who, although struggled last year, has greatly improved this season and has done much better disguising coverage. Especially safety coverage.

I don't think Guenther is any better. He just finally benched Hall in favor of Jones, got back Burfict (the defense was awful without him) and Atkins.

I think the difference is..
Guenther can manage to not mess up a defense that has Atkins/Burfict/Dunlap/Iloka/Nelson/Jones.
Zimmer made a top 5 defense with Dhani Jones/Robert Geathers/Keith Rivers/Tank Johnson/Chris Crocker/Nedu Ndukwe.

Zimmer did a LOT with much much less than Guenther has to work with this year. Last year when Guenther didn't have Burfict or a 100% Atkins? 22nd overall, 12th scoring. The Bengals have the least blitzes in the NFL this year and they're still 9th in sacks and 4th in INTs. They're winning with talent more than scheme.

Plus that 1st scoring defense ranking is sure helped by the fact that 4 of the last 5 games have been played against McCown/Hoyer/Foles/Davis.. damn sad lineup of QBs right there. We quickly forget how AWFUL the Bengals looked against the run before Burfict came back. He had no answer for it until he simply had more talent on defense than the other teams had on offense. I don't trust his ability to scheme a win against a superior cast of talent. I did with Zimmer.

(12-11-2015, 10:52 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Being a Defensive minded coach you think he deferred to Norv on that final drive?

Doubt it. He did against the Rams. But they didn't exactly have an offense. The Cards do.

(12-11-2015, 11:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't think Guenther is any better. He just finally benched Hall in favor of Jones, got back Burfict (the defense was awful without him) and Atkins.

I think the difference is..
Guenther can manage to not mess up a defense that has Atkins/Burfict/Dunlap/Iloka/Nelson/Jones.
Zimmer made a top 5 defense with Dhani Jones/Robert Geathers/Keith Rivers/Tank Johnson/Chris Crocker/Nedu Ndukwe.

Zimmer did a LOT with much much less than Guenther has to work with this year. Last year when Guenther didn't have Burfict or a 100% Atkins? 22nd overall, 12th scoring. The Bengals have the least blitzes in the NFL this year and they're still 9th in sacks and 4th in INTs. They're winning with talent more than scheme.

Plus that 1st scoring defense ranking is sure helped by the fact that 4 of the last 5 games have been played against McCown/Hoyer/Foles/Davis.. damn sad lineup of QBs right there. We quickly forget how AWFUL the Bengals looked against the run before Burfict came back. He had no answer for it until he simply had more talent on defense than the other teams had on offense. I don't trust his ability to scheme a win against a superior cast of talent. I did with Zimmer.

Oh there's a huge difference between Guenther and Zimmer. And I don't believe Guenther is any better. But we're finally seeing him have a staple on this defense.

We've seen Zimmer respond with adversity. We have to see Guenther do the same thing.

(12-11-2015, 10:22 PM)TGISunday Wrote: That's on Bridgewater.  Game situation awareness.

Exactly. Kid has been playing football for years now, so no excuse. 

(12-11-2015, 10:22 PM)TGISunday Wrote: That's on Bridgewater.  Game situation awareness.

Also on Zimmer. 13 seconds left, can only go toward sideline, young QB, no field of play passes. You kick that field goal. Bad decision

(12-11-2015, 11:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Zimmer did a LOT with much much less than Guenther has to work with this year. Last year when Guenther didn't have Burfict or a 100% Atkins? 22nd overall, 12th scoring. The Bengals have the least blitzes in the NFL this year and they're still 9th in sacks and 4th in INTs. They're winning with talent more than scheme.

  

You can't gloss over the fact that for a portion of last season, we not only didn't have Burfict or Atkins, we had NO starting linebackers......

(12-12-2015, 12:05 PM)Sled21 Wrote:   

You can't gloss over the fact that for a portion of last season, we not only didn't have Burfict or Atkins, we had NO starting linebackers......

And the lack of so many offensive weapons put us behind the eight ball with situational defense.