(10-21-2022, 10:27 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Bengals don't make in season moves like this.....  off season I'd be happy with just 1 3rd round for Mixon.  That's all he's likely worth.

Bingo. Bengals would never make or even entertain a move like this anytime let alone mid-season so it's all a moot point. I, myself, would not make that trade because a player has to fit into that offense. Is the blocking scheme correct for that type of a runner is a huge concern. We know none of that and for the most part Cinci. is/was more of a vertical passing team and only now are they adapting.

SF is not loaded at the wide out position either and with CMC they can now put Samuel back at the WR position full time.

(10-21-2022, 11:32 AM)higgy100 Wrote: Six extra 3rd round comp. picks is exactly why they were able to do it.

And the NFC is wide open other than Philly. They have to see themselves having a good shot at a Super Bowl run.

So depressing that some actually believe Perine can spell Mixon- Perine! This time last year we were talking about swapping him out for Evans, or even Trayveon. Now we've created this alternate reality where we think he can do the job of our top players and captains. There's not a team in the league that would prefer Perine to Mixon, forget about the cost savings. Yet here we are pretending like it would be a lateral move for us.

For me as a draftnik, it's also insane that we would care about the picks. I mean, I care about the picks more than anyone. But I also know what this team does with them. Picks are a total gamble, especially for teams that use them on players like Carman and Shelvin.

All that said, I don't mind what the Panthers did here. McCaffrey has become so injury-prone and those stories rarely turn back. Mixon, of course, is not made of glass and in fact takes pride in his availability. Carolina is also rebuilding and it's an asset they don't need right now. Personally, I would be making a play for Marshall to get the gang back together.

(10-21-2022, 11:54 AM)tms Wrote: So depressing that some actually believe Perine can spell Mixon- Perine! This time last year we were talking about swapping him out for Evans, or even Trayveon. Now we've created this alternate reality where we think he can do the job of our top players and captains. There's not a team in the league that would prefer Perine to Mixon, forget about the cost savings. Yet here we are pretending like it would be a lateral move for us.

For me as a draftnik, it's also insane that we would care about the picks. I mean, I care about the picks more than anyone. But I also know what this team does with them. Picks are a total gamble, especially for teams that use them on players like Carman and Shelvin.

All that said, I don't mind what the Panthers did here. McCaffrey has become so injury-prone and those stories rarely turn back. Mixon, of course, is not made of glass and in fact takes pride in his availability. Carolina is also rebuilding and it's an asset they don't need right now. Personally, I would be making a play for Marshall to get the gang back together.

Running back is a highly overrated position. I promise you, the drop in production between Perine and Mixon would hardly be noticeable. I understand that Mixon is a huge fan favorite, so many won't fall in line with the idea. Mixon does nothing at an elite level. Since 2020, Perine has actually been a more efficient player than Mixon, just on lesser volume.

CMC won't be playing the Bengals in a few weeks stating the obvious but that's really good news for us.

(10-21-2022, 12:00 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Running back is a highly overrated position. I promise you, the drop in production between Perine and Mixon would hardly be noticeable. I understand that Mixon is a huge fan favorite, so many won't fall in line with the idea. Mixon does nothing at an elite level. Since 2020, Perine has actually been a more efficient player than Mixon, just on lesser volume.

Perine is a 3D back for a reason. He has shown no capacity for a full workload as a pro. He was never drafted to be a feature. He is also 27 years old in a league that increasingly favors 25 and younger (Mixon is 26). He is as vanilla as it gets. On the other hand, you are sort of preaching to the choir. If we spent a Day 3 on a new RB every year, I wouldn't be against that strategy. The difference is we'd need to bring them in from Week 1, and integrate them accordingly, as opposed to throwing them into the fire midway through the year and forcing them to adapt to a whole host of new responsibilities as we'd be doing with SAM PERINE.

Mixon has never been my favorite player but he is completely underrated by fans these days. The guy is borderline PBer. He's equally deployable as a feature or in the margins. He doesn't crack under the spotlight, nor does he demand touches- but he can handle them. He's a steady, bona fide contributor to a Super Bowl team. Perine is a backup whose most productive season when he was a freshman almost a decade ago. There is no comparison. 

Yep and I still. Can't believe SF did that deal. With that being said I think Mixon is still.a good player for us here and can help us to another Super Bowl!

(10-21-2022, 12:26 PM)tms Wrote: Perine is a 3D back for a reason. He has shown no capacity for a full workload as a pro. He was never drafted to be a feature. He is also 27 years old in a league that increasingly favors 25 and younger (Mixon is 26). He is as vanilla as it gets. On the other hand, you are sort of preaching to the choir. If we spent a Day 3 on a new RB every year, I wouldn't be against that strategy. The difference is we'd need to bring them in from Week 1, and integrate them accordingly, as opposed to throwing them into the fire midway through the year and forcing them to adapt to a whole host of new responsibilities as we'd be doing with SAMUEL PERINE.

Mixon has never been my favorite player but he is completely underrated by fans these days. The guy is borderline PBer. He's equally deployable as a feature or in the margins. He doesn't crack under the spotlight, nor does he demand touches- but he can handle them. He's a steady, bona fide contributor to a Super Bowl team. Perine is a backup whose most productive season when he was a freshman almost a decade ago. There is no comparison. 

I do understand your position, and agree with parts of it. I will still contend that if Mixon were cut today, pushing Perine into the starting spot, the overall production would largely be the same. Now, part of what I prefer is that Perine not be a feature back but part of a committee. I don't want a feature back - run Perine, Evans and ??? out there. Or, remove Perine and run another ??? out there. I don't care. The Bengals do not have elite talent in their RB room currently and can get this production elsewhere. 

Grabbing a day three guy often, like you suggested, would be fine. Every few years, grab another late round guy and plug & play. You won't get elite play, but you don't need elite play at RB. Serviceable is just as good from a team success standpoint. 

(10-21-2022, 10:32 AM)Joelist Wrote: If it is a bad team making the offer even better as the picks have more value. Either way Panthers got a good deal.

yes to make up fo the Baker deal

(10-21-2022, 12:31 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I do understand your position, and agree with parts of it. I will still contend that if Mixon were cut today, pushing Perine into the starting spot, the overall production would largely be the same. Now, part of what I prefer is that Perine not be a feature back but part of a committee. I don't want a feature back - run Perine, Evans and ??? out there. Or, remove Perine and run another ??? out there. I don't care. The Bengals do not have elite talent in their RB room currently and can get this production elsewhere. 

Grabbing a day three guy often, like you suggested, would be fine. Every few years, grab another late round guy and plug & play. You won't get elite play, but you don't need elite play at RB. Serviceable is just as good from a team success standpoint. 

Exactly. I love Mixon, but honestly, given our offense, we don't need an elite RB. At this point, I'd don't mind and almost would rather have Perine and Evans split carries than just have Mixon play most of the game with Perine here or there.

(10-21-2022, 12:31 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I do understand your position, and agree with parts of it. I will still contend that if Mixon were cut today, pushing Perine into the starting spot, the overall production would largely be the same. Now, part of what I prefer is that Perine not be a feature back but part of a committee. I don't want a feature back - run Perine, Evans and ??? out there. Or, remove Perine and run another ??? out there. I don't care. The Bengals do not have elite talent in their RB room currently and can get this production elsewhere. 

Grabbing a day three guy often, like you suggested, would be fine. Every few years, grab another late round guy and plug & play. You won't get elite play, but you don't need elite play at RB. Serviceable is just as good from a team success standpoint. 

Agree

I like Mixon and believe he's a good to very good RB. He's just not a game breaker/elite. I would be a little leery of cutting him at this point in the season though. But I'm meaning more so from a depth standpoint. What happens if Perine gets hurt ?

And yes Perine would do great with a little more workload in a committee IMO. No more than we run the ball it's not like he's going to be moving up to 35 carries a game.

I would like to see what we have in Chris Evans. I have liked what I have seen out of him in limited opportunities. Granted sometimes the more a player plays you see why he wasn’t playing but so far so good with him. I thought he wasn’t playing because he wasn’t good as a pass block but if Mixon is struggling in that area give the kid a few extra snaps. His pass catching abilities would for sure be another thing an opposing defense would have to worry about. He just seems like he has potential for some splash plays. Regarding the OP question dealing Mixon would be more enticing if you thought you had something with Evans.

(10-21-2022, 01:10 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree

I like Mixon and believe he's a good to very good RB. He's just not a game breaker/elite. I would be a little leery of cutting him at this point in the season though. But I'm meaning more so from a depth standpoint. What happens if Perine gets hurt ?

And yes Perine would do great with a little more workload in a committee IMO. No more than we run the ball it's not like he's going to be moving up to 35 carries a game.

Exactly 

all off season it seems I was the only one willing to part with Mixon, but that was when a replacement could be drafted or added. That window has passed by now. 

Plus it's a moot point per nobody will offer that many picks for a back that can't block and has high mileage. Funny some believe the guy they now dislike can fetch a Kings ransom from dumb NFL GM's.

But he should be replaced this off season for sure and would take a 4th or 5th to do it even. Anything more would be a bonus.  

(10-21-2022, 09:26 AM)Au165 Wrote: I'd take a 2nd for Mixon and drive him to the airport myself.

This.   Then roll with Perine, Evans, Williams and the big boy who I think is still on our practice squad.

He's a good back, but he is a so so receiver with questionable vision and he can't pass protect reliably.

Wish we'd drafted Cook

(10-21-2022, 12:26 PM)tms Wrote: Perine is a 3D back for a reason. He has shown no capacity for a full workload as a pro. He was never drafted to be a feature. He is also 27 years old in a league that increasingly favors 25 and younger (Mixon is 26). He is as vanilla as it gets. On the other hand, you are sort of preaching to the choir. If we spent a Day 3 on a new RB every year, I wouldn't be against that strategy. The difference is we'd need to bring them in from Week 1, and integrate them accordingly, as opposed to throwing them into the fire midway through the year and forcing them to adapt to a whole host of new responsibilities as we'd be doing with SAM PERINE.

Mixon has never been my favorite player but he is completely underrated by fans these days. The guy is borderline PBer. He's equally deployable as a feature or in the margins. He doesn't crack under the spotlight, nor does he demand touches- but he can handle them. He's a steady, bona fide contributor to a Super Bowl team. Perine is a backup whose most productive season when he was a freshman almost a decade ago. There is no comparison. 

Well said and good post.  (both of the ones on this page).  

If you still believe we are in "win now" mode, makes no sense to entertain the idea (within reason of course).  

(10-21-2022, 12:31 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I do understand your position, and agree with parts of it. I will still contend that if Mixon were cut today, pushing Perine into the starting spot, the overall production would largely be the same. Now, part of what I prefer is that Perine not be a feature back but part of a committee. I don't want a feature back - run Perine, Evans and ??? out there. Or, remove Perine and run another ??? out there. I don't care. The Bengals do not have elite talent in their RB room currently and can get this production elsewhere. 

It's impossible to know whether "production would be the same." The top two backups are Perine (3D) and Evans (change of pace). Neither has assumed even a by-committee workload since the past FIFA World Cup of Soccer (Evans, 2018- it was so long ago that he spent a year as a dishwasher/carpenter/janitor in the meantime). That is an enormous jump. Mixon is gobbling up 70-80% of NFL snaps today where teams game-plan for him specifically. 

For his part, Perine's "production" comes with the largest asterisk known to man. Don't take it the wrong way but I am so tired of fans thinking 3D stats can be extrapolated into anything more than what they are. Perine eats the clock for eight carries behind 12 and 13 personnel against the Jets and now our captain has no value-add? Bollocks. Who's to say Mixon wouldn't have done the same? Then we get this complaint driven around his "vision"- where did this come from? More importantly, are we saying that Perine has superior "vision"?! We're just making things up as we go along lol 

As for blocking, that's sort of Perine's job. He'll come in on third and long. If he's not going to get the ball in the flat or on a screen, he's there for pass pro. He can focus on that niche like Gio did. What's more, he fails too. He misread a blitz in the 4th quarter at NO that didn't get noticed only because Burrow got away.

I'm all for new ideas. But I stop short of thinking we know better. Be careful what you wish for. If the guys were more useful they'd be on the field. The Bengals are not paying Mixon $10 million and Perine $1.5 by accident. They are both known commodities and valued accordingly.  

McCaffrey is a great talent, but he is constantly injured. Can't believe a team gave that many picks for him even if they had extra.

(10-21-2022, 09:03 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: The Panthers acquired a '23 second rounder, '23 third rounder, '23 fourth rounder, and a '24 fifth rounder from the 49'ers.

Would you take that many draft picks for Mixon? I assume if the answer is yes, then there is a belief that Perine can be the feature back until a new RB is drafted. Is Perine could enough to start for, what we hope, is a contending team?

For sure and I like Mixon a lot as a RB, but his blitz pickup is bad and this is the main thing I look for in a RB.

Heck, I would take a 2nd rounder for him at this point.

(10-21-2022, 12:26 PM)tms Wrote: Perine is a 3D back for a reason. He has shown no capacity for a full workload as a pro. He was never drafted to be a feature. He is also 27 years old in a league that increasingly favors 25 and younger (Mixon is 26). He is as vanilla as it gets. On the other hand, you are sort of preaching to the choir. If we spent a Day 3 on a new RB every year, I wouldn't be against that strategy. The difference is we'd need to bring them in from Week 1, and integrate them accordingly, as opposed to throwing them into the fire midway through the year and forcing them to adapt to a whole host of new responsibilities as we'd be doing with SAM PERINE.

Mixon has never been my favorite player but he is completely underrated by fans these days. The guy is borderline PBer. He's equally deployable as a feature or in the margins. He doesn't crack under the spotlight, nor does he demand touches- but he can handle them. He's a steady, bona fide contributor to a Super Bowl team. Perine is a backup whose most productive season when he was a freshman almost a decade ago. There is no comparison. 

All good points Tms, Mixon also doesn't fumble often. Still, I wouldn't be against a trade if we got something decent.

That McCaffrey trade was stupid by the 49ers, dude has been injured for like 4 years...

(10-21-2022, 12:31 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I do understand your position, and agree with parts of it. I will still contend that if Mixon were cut today, pushing Perine into the starting spot, the overall production would largely be the same. Now, part of what I prefer is that Perine not be a feature back but part of a committee. I don't want a feature back - run Perine, Evans and ??? out there. Or, remove Perine and run another ??? out there. I don't care. The Bengals do not have elite talent in their RB room currently and can get this production elsewhere. 

Grabbing a day three guy often, like you suggested, would be fine. Every few years, grab another late round guy and plug & play. You won't get elite play, but you don't need elite play at RB. Serviceable is just as good from a team success standpoint. 

I agree with you and Perrine is not strictly a 3rd down back. He caught a pass last week on 2nd and 5 down and ran the ball on 1st down another time.He's certainly not a 3 down back.

Perrine ran the ball for 400 yards in a major college game and averaged almost 13 ypc. in that game and had over 4100 yards in his college career. Lots of reasons (and talent is one of them obviously) why guys come into the league and aren't featured and some players accept that and strictly work on what they're told that they are good at. I'd say the one issue I have with ZT is him NOT using more RB's and throwing the D a curve ball.

Perrine runs much lower than Mixon and is so much harder to find in the pile and always keeps the legs churning. Problem is he fumbled once last year and wasn't spectacular on a play in the SB and half the board wants him cut. I'm not even a big Perrine guy so when he ran great against the Jets earlier this year I said that alot of those yards were because the Jet defenders were strictly trying to strip the ball. I would have no issue in the right type of game for Perrine to get 7-8 carries.