Quote:Bobby Nightengale
@nightengalejr

Reds GM Nick Krall says the 100-loss season was “unacceptable,” but noted next year will be about developing young players.

“We're going to come into (2023) in a similar place that we are right now.”

Sounds like Krall is setting up fans for another 100-loss season.

Wonder who is kept and who is let go for the players. Maybe even a big signing of Judge this offseason. lol

It was posted in the September thread. The Reds fired some assistant coaches.

David Bell will return for the 2023 season, but five coaches were dismissed, including hitting coach Alan Zinter and first-base coach Delino DeShields.

— Bobby Nightengale (@nightengalejr) October 6, 2022

Well..they should have some salary space.. I hope de la Cruz isn't a minor league fluke .. The kid hit for the cycle and won the minor league triple crown @ SS.. Been awhile since the Larkin era..

Glad to see all the prior Reds in the MLB playoffs. Makes me think if we kept them we'd be there.

(10-16-2022, 11:58 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Glad to see all the prior Reds in the MLB playoffs. Makes me think if we kept them we'd be there.

It was fun watching Castillo pitch in the postseason. He was one of my favorite Reds to watch play.

Just read the article on the Reds website regarding player options and contracts. The Reds have nobody to trade and should not sign any of the players on the block. Let's face it. The Reds are in shambles. Looks like another bad year for us.

I fail to see the downside of spending a little to make the roster a bit less of a laughingstock.

The more seasons they have like 2022, the farther they fall in terms of public interest. I definitely fall into the category of fans that are excited for the young talent in the minors, but watching the big league team flail around for 162 games is sad. They've already bailed a ton of cash from the books. The total spend gets even lower after 23 when Moose and Votto have their obligations fulfilled.

I hope like hell that guys like De la Cruz and Marte are as advertised. I have a decent amount of faith that they are. The big 3 young pitchers look promising, too. Unfortunately, even with this in mind, I have difficulty being overly positive about the long-term outlook.

For every team like the Astros that became a powerhouse through tanking and selling off, you have teams like the Pirates. The Pirates are an indisputable joke of a professional organization. With that in mind, they have been far from bereft of young talent over the years. Cole, Frazier, Bell, Reynolds, Hayes, Morton, and others have all been productive. More than half got sold off by a budget-minded front office with zero real interest in building a winning team.

To put it more concisely, what happens IF and when the Reds' mega prospects do pan out? Do they become cornerstones to build around with supplemental free agents? Do they become capital in trades for a future that never becomes reality? I know what I think the answer is. The Cubs and Astros both added when their young stars matured. So did the Braves. The Braves have been doing a decent job of locking up their young stars long-term. I don't know if the Reds brass has that kind of drive or foresight.

Wait. Cincinnati still has a baseball team...?

(11-05-2022, 09:28 AM)samhain Wrote: I fail to see the downside of spending a little to make the roster a bit less of a laughingstock.

The more seasons they have like 2022, the farther they fall in terms of public interest. I definitely fall into the category of fans that are excited for the young talent in the minors, but watching the big league team flail around for 162 games is sad. They've already bailed a ton of cash from the books. The total spend gets even lower after 23 when Moose and Votto have their obligations fulfilled.

I hope like hell that guys like De la Cruz and Marte are as advertised. I have a decent amount of faith that they are. The big 3 young pitchers look promising, too. Unfortunately, even with this in mind, I have difficulty being overly positive about the long-term outlook.

For every team like the Astros that became a powerhouse through tanking and selling off, you have teams like the Pirates. The Pirates are an indisputable joke of a professional organization. With that in mind, they have been far from bereft of young talent over the years. Cole, Frazier, Bell, Reynolds, Hayes, Morton, and others have all been productive. More than half got sold off by a budget-minded front office with zero real interest in building a winning team.

To put it more concisely, what happens IF and when the Reds' mega prospects do pan out? Do they become cornerstones to build around with supplemental free agents? Do they become capital in trades for a future that never becomes reality? I know what I think the answer is. The Cubs and Astros both added when their young stars matured. So did the Braves. The Braves have been doing a decent job of locking up their young stars long-term. I don't know if the Reds brass has that kind of drive or foresight.

You summed up exactly how I feel about this team and organization right now. I would like to see them, at minimum, fix the bullpen. A team relying on, while developing at the same time, a young rotation is going to need a good bullpen. I’m actually surprised Lodolo pitched as many innings as he did last year, seeing how few he tossed the season prior. They didn’t have much of a choice, and he handled it well for the most part. They need to have other aspects of the team settled in and squared away for WHEN they start calling up this young talent they acquired. Bullpen was so terrible the past couple years because they fill spots with bargain bin guys and comeback type players. And thats fine to fill a spot or two for guys in low leverage situations but you need bona fide horses at middle, set up, and closer. There are a couple guys from last year I’d consider keeping but overall, it all needs rehauled.

If they half ass it again this coming season, look for even less fan attendance than we had THIS year, people have found “somewhere else to go”, Phil!

What will be the first big move since it is time after the World Series? They probably will sign somebody awful.

I'm just hoping they can put something together so we're not out of it by June 1st, again.

Votto has the NO TRADE contract, but why pay 18 million in 2023 to THE MOOSE. Is he worth 18 Million ? NO WAY.

So Keep Farmer because he can Catch and play just about every position if needed as a Super Sub. Have Joey Votto Day at end of Season. But if any team is willing to pay half or most of The Moose Salary, dump him and expect not much in return. What Reds get in return is the saving of anywhere from 9 million to 18 million dollars, and that can go towards paying some of Votto's huge final year of his co0ntract.

To Keep both Votto AND Moose is a financial anchor into Last Place and will also force the cuts and trades of more good younger players to keep these old washed up hacks around. .Lose The Moose. If Reds can get a team to pay half his contract and save Reds 9 Million, Do it before the team changes it's mind. Ask nothing or little in return, this is a Dump Payroll Move that has to be made to keep more good young players.

I really want to see the Reds make a turn around. These old over paid geezers are not the Future. Votto they have to keep one more year, but not The Moose.

Moose definitely was a worse contract than Votto. Nobody will want him. Reds will stay in the basement for 2023.

(11-08-2022, 04:29 AM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Moose definitely was a worse contract than Votto. Nobody will want him. Reds will stay in the basement for 2023.

They don't have to.   The Reds have good young Pitching and if they are smart they will play Defense to go with that Pitching so that errors do no force Pitchers to get 4 or 5 outs instead f just 3, and some Double Plays to really help out. 

As for The Moose.  Reds have to pay him 18 Million as is, but how much can they save in a trade.  Can they get a team to pay 9 Million of his contract.   Then the Reds pay him 9 Million to play elsewhere, but Reds save 9 Million.  If No.  is a team willing to pay The Moose 5 Million or 4 Million.  Yes, the Reds would look like they are paying The Moose 13 or 12 Million to play for another team, but they still get down from the 18 Million and save 4 or 5 Million.   

The Reds should go Money Ball and be willing to dump any of The Moose Contract.  No reason to pay him all of the 18 Million if some team is willing to take him and pay some of it.  Some team might want a possible 3rd base or 1st base or DH and pay 5 Million more or less for him.  The Reds should really be shopping The Moose to every team in MLB.   What Reds get in return does not matter, and Reds should not ruin a trade by asking for top players or top picks. The idea is to dump payroll. 

Again, the Reds have to pay Votto huge contract one more year due to end of 10 year no trade contract made after his MVP year.  So OK, you sell tickets to Joey Votto Day and try to get some money back on a possible sell out stadium for that.  Keeping both Votto and The Moose is too expensive.  Dumping The Moose and getting a team to pay half his salary or a quarter of his salary is the only financial answer, since no team would be willing to pay The Moose 18 Million.  If Reds could get back anywhere from 3 to 9 Million, do it, because otherwise they are stuck with the entire 18 Million. 

Once The Moose is dumped, The Reds could be good in 2023.  Good Young Pitching, Defense and some up and coming hitters.  The Carnival 3 ring circus promotion of a Joey Votto Day as if Col Tom Parker snowman of selling Elvis.  The Reds should play better, have more fans, and make more money in 2023.  I'm not saying World Series, but I am saying a good team that fans can respect and the owners start to make more money again.  

The Bottom Line is The Reds had the worst Attendance since the early 1980's.  However he Reds won the World Series in 1990 and that was no accident.  Bob Howsom came back and drafted players such as Barry Larkin and Eric Davis looking ahead to the future, and so must The Reds now.  Dump however much of The Moose Contract as possible, have the Joey Votto 3 ring circus day for a sell out stadium,  but enjoy the good young pitching and keep making good drafts.  In 2024, with no Votto or Moose contracts, the sky is the limit.  

I'll add The Reds should not listen to people on MLB Network talking about who the top free agents are.  I've heard them, and they are talking for teams in New York and LA.   Cincinnati does not have the money to spend like those cities.  In 1975, only a few players in MLB made one hundred thousand a year, so Cincinnati could be dominate.  The 1994 strike season up to the 2020 covid no fans season and the 2022 lock out / strike season changes everything.  The Reds will never again have the money for a 1975 team.   However they can be like Tampa as I have said last few years.  Tampa would never make the expensive Votto or Moose contract.  What Tampa does to make play-offs in same division with New York, Boston, Toronto, Baltimore is what Reds could do.  Field this good young pitching staff and a good defense and win games with less than half of what New York or LA spends in payroll.  I have seen teams spend the most in payroll and not make play-offs many times. 

The Reds have a good, exciting bunch of young Pitchers.  Most Reds pitchers bring it at around 100 MPH but have some good other pitches.  Hunter Greene, Ashcraft, Lodolo.  Just saying their names gets me excited for 2023.   This is why I do not want to see one more good young player traded just to pay Votto and Moose.   Dump and Save however many Million they can in a Moose trade, and get some Votto money back on JOEY VOTTO DAY of a sellout stadium.  Who knows, Votto might even put up OK numbers his final year.  I would not trade Super Sub Farmer unless he is asking for too much money.  Year in and year out, Farmer fills holes at shortstop, catcher, outfield as injuries and things happen, so he is of great help to a Reds manager. 

Dump Moose, and there is no reason Reds should not be better and also make more money in 2023.   I would watch Reds Games to see Greene, Ashcraft and Lodolo pitch.  I also think Reds will be better with MLB getting rid of the shifts.  Fans do not want to see great shifts of ground outs and fly outs.  Fans want to see more hits, and third basemen make Brooks Robinson plays and a good double play combo like Concepcion and Morgan.  The shifts were robbing fans of seeing baseball as it use to be, great defensive plays and more hitting.  We lost the art of a shortstop going deep to 3rd or over 2nd to make a play.  Fans will enjoy seeing that again, now with the shifts gone.   One of the most boring things ever was players looking at the shift cards between batters because that was just dull.   MLB going back to how defense should be played, this also has me excited for Reds 2023, because Reds in my lifetime from Cardenas to Concepcion to Larkin have often had Defense.  Instead of moving a 3rd base to short and a short to 2nd base, just let these players show they can play their position.  The shifts deprived the Fans of The Golden Glove play that Fans came to enjoy from 1800's to 2000's. 

Yes, I think Reds will be better not looking at shift cards all game.  Play your position and then come in and grab a bat.  Greene, Ashcraft, Lodolo....I want to see the 2023 Reds, THIS could be a good team with maybe World Series a few years down the road, but a Good Team NOW in 2023. 

Reds trade for a utility infielder that hit .207 last year in 35 games for the Rangers. David Bell needing more David Bell type of players

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/nick-solak-traded-to-reds

CINCINNATI -- The Reds made their first acquisition of the offseason on Thursday when they acquired infielder/outfielder Nick Solak in a trade with the Rangers for cash considerations.

Solak, 27, has played second base, third base, first base, left field and center field in parts of four Major League seasons with Texas since 2019. In 253 career games, he has slashed .252/.327/.372 with 21 home runs.

A former Top 30 prospect according to MLB Pipeline, Solak was a second-round selection by the Yankees in the 2016 Draft out of the University of Louisville. In 2018, he was traded to the Rays as part of a three-team deal that sent future Reds player Brandon Drury to the Yankees from Arizona. Then in '19, the Rays traded Solak to the Rangers for Pete Fairbanks.

With Solak’s addition, the Reds have a full 40-man roster.

(11-12-2022, 01:08 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Reds trade for a utility infielder that hit .207 last year in 35 games for the Rangers. David Bell needing more David Bell type of players

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/nick-solak-traded-to-reds

CINCINNATI -- The Reds made their first acquisition of the offseason on Thursday when they acquired infielder/outfielder Nick Solak in a trade with the Rangers for cash considerations.

Solak, 27, has played second base, third base, first base, left field and center field in parts of four Major League seasons with Texas since 2019. In 253 career games, he has slashed .252/.327/.372 with 21 home runs.

A former Top 30 prospect according to MLB Pipeline, Solak was a second-round selection by the Yankees in the 2016 Draft out of the University of Louisville. In 2018, he was traded to the Rays as part of a three-team deal that sent future Reds player Brandon Drury to the Yankees from Arizona. Then in '19, the Rays traded Solak to the Rangers for Pete Fairbanks.

With Solak’s addition, the Reds have a full 40-man roster.

This move reflects the pathetic state of the franchise. This is just a move to fill the roster.

(11-12-2022, 11:43 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: This move reflects the pathetic state of the franchise. This is just a move to fill the roster.

It's just the completion of an earlier trade.  He is on the 40 man roster for now in off season, not the 25 man roster.   

He is probably on the cheap. I myself do not want one single high priced player added.  Just the opposite.  I want them to dump payroll, not add payroll.  Dump Moose now and have Joey Votto Day at end of season, saying good bye to the 2 biggest contracts on team.  

The future is Hunter Greene, Ashcraft and Lodolo and some other young players, but the time will come they reach the pay raises or go free agent.  

The Reds do not have he deep pocket money of New York or LA type cities being in Cincinnati, and they never will.  They need to be Monet Ball but not like Oakland, but instead like Tampa.  Tampa has shown the blueprint for how to beat the Yankees and Boston with half the payroll.  It is a blueprint the Reds must follow.  You almost never see Tampa sign a high priced free agent.  Tampa wins with the young pitchers and players up from their minor league teams.  Good young pitching and defense.  Now the Reds have good young pitching and could have a very good 2023 season, but they need to dump payroll in Moose now and Votto end of season, not add payroll. 

The Reds admitted last Thanksgiving that they had to dump payroll to stay in business.  I understand.  The no fan season of 2020 covid was murder on a small market Cincinnati, plus no revenue from the minor league teams such as Dayton shut down also.  Yet Reds still had to pay players during that 2 month season of no fans spending money at the gate or in the stands. It was a financial disaster the Reds are still recovering from, as is most of the USA.  The Reds did take it on the chops and into last place in cutting much payroll.  The Moose and Votto will soon follow.  I just don't think it will take long to recover.  I think the Reds will be better and fun to watch in 2023 thanks to the good young pitching, that's how The Miracle Mets grew with the likes of Seaver and Koosman in 1967 and 1968 going into 1969.  Winning with good pitching is no Miracle.  

I'm very excited about Greene, Ashcraft, Lodolo and the young players going into 2023.   I understand the covid hurt small market Cincinnati, but with the Majors and Minors back up and running strong again, and the Reds cutting payroll even if it meant last place, I think The Reds are ready for economic recovery and better play on the field to bring the fans back.  I would hope that in the future they would follow the Tampa blueprint more and not even bring in high price contracts such as the one given to The Moose, and never again a 10 year with no trade Votto type contract that Reds can't get out of if they need to. 

I would not want an Aaron Judge and such brought in on the Reds.  No Mookie Betts and such.  Cincinnati is not NY or LA, not even close.  Cincinnati needs to learn how to win games with half the payroll of NY and LA and Tampa has proven it can be done.  Pitching and Defense and Reds already have good young pitching.  Dump the Moose and pay half or more of his 18 million, and Reds would save 5 to 9 million dollars right there. Then at end of season no more Votto at 25 Million dollars a year. Going into 2024 the Reds have just dumped 43 Million Dollars a year in payroll in Moose and Votto. Economic Recovery for Cincinnati Reds will happen fast. Meanwhile in 2023, grow with youth and Greene, Ashcraft and Lodolo could Win a lot of games for Reds in 2023.

I think the future of the Reds is bright, as long as they don't make any high priced free agent moves which would defeat the whole point of the payroll cuts the Reds are still not finished making. 2023 should be a good team, and after cutting 43 Million more, 2024 should be full economic recovery and full speed ahead into the future for The Reds. Greene, Ashcraft, Lodolo, I think Reds future is bright, just as Bengals dumping a ton of payroll but getting Burrow, Higgins, Chase and such. Of course the difference is The NFL bends over backwards for a city like Cincinnati in TV Revenue Sharing equal to all 32 teams. MLB is the opposite and treats cities like Cincinnati poorly. Still, I think The Reds future is bright, even in 2023 they should be better due to the good young pitching.

Reds trade Kyle Farmer to Twins for pitcher Casey Legumina.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/twins-to-acquire-kyle-farmer.html

Reds also acquire IF Kevin Newman from the Pirates.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/twins-to-acquire-kyle-farmer.html

(11-19-2022, 12:04 AM)cinci4life Wrote: Reds trade Kyle Farmer to Twins for pitcher Casey Legumina.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/twins-to-acquire-kyle-farmer.html

Reds also acquire IF Kevin Newman from the Pirates.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/twins-to-acquire-kyle-farmer.html

Such odd moves. Farmer = Newman. The transactions are insignificant.