His growth as a play caller has been substantial. I think, to a degree, Chase's absence helped him just as much as it did Joe Burrow. A lack of our #1 weapon forced them to be creative in their play designs and I've noticed that videos evaluating the Bengals (like JT O'Sullivan of the QB School) called out a few really good play designs in the recent weeks without Chase. Our offense has transcended "Get Chase one on one" and has become more "create plays that give Joe options, and if Chase is one on one, great. Give him a shot."

We started the year with an offense that seemed to be an under center zone running offense and a shotgun/empty set passing offense that were cobbled together into a really predictable and undynamic offense. We now have a majority shotgun offense for both running and passing, but when Joe goes under center they have a potent combination of runs and play action passes.

The talk of Joe Burrow not being comfortable turning his back to the field (as part of under center play action) seems to have been false or at least corrected, which is fantastic.

These transformations in the offense have taken us from an explosive team that could get hot but were spotty and inconsistent (First two weeks of this season, but also the Browns and Ravens games, as well as the Bears, Jaguars, Chargers and Broncos games last year), partially because of the Oline, partially because of our reliance on deep balls, to a consistently dangerous offense the likes of the Chiefs or Bills.

At least we appear to have reached that tier now. We'll see how we finish out the year.

I think Zac has proven himself this year and I'm very happy for him.

(12-09-2022, 03:18 PM)3wt Wrote: Which I've heard was going to be a bad play if Joe had not audibled.

Sorry no link.   I think I heard Bengals San say it on Locked on Bengals.

So I'm given to understand it could have been a brilliant audible that looked like crap because the defensive player got lucky   

I listened but I don’t know how they knew what the other play was. They just assumed. Dunlap guessed right and I’m sure his time here helped him.

(12-09-2022, 03:49 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: His growth as a play caller has been substantial. I think, to a degree, Chase's absence helped him just as much as it did Joe Burrow. A lack of our #1 weapon forced them to be creative in their play designs and I've noticed that videos evaluating the Bengals (like JT O'Sullivan of the QB School) called out a few really good play designs in the recent weeks without Chase. Our offense has transcended "Get Chase one on one" and has become more "create plays that give Joe options, and if Chase is one on one, great. Give him a shot."

We started the year with an offense that seemed to be an under center zone running offense and a shotgun/empty set passing offense that were cobbled together into a really predictable and undynamic offense. We now have a majority shotgun offense for both running and passing, but when Joe goes under center they have a potent combination of runs and play action passes.

The talk of Joe Burrow not being comfortable turning his back to the field (as part of under center play action) seems to have been false or at least corrected, which is fantastic.

These transformations in the offense have taken us from an explosive team that could get hot but were spotty and inconsistent (First two weeks of this season, but also the Browns and Ravens games, as well as the Bears, Jaguars, Chargers and Broncos games last year), partially because of the Oline, partially because of our reliance on deep balls, to a consistently dangerous offense the likes of the Chiefs or Bills.

At least we appear to have reached that tier now. We'll see how we finish out the year.

I think Zac has proven himself this year and I'm very happy for him.

I was told by someone who talks to a member of the offensive staff several times a week that the biggest difference is the OL and subsequently being able to run the ball and protect longer. Earlier in the year getting Joe aligned with the short passing game took some time. And his appendectomy hindered things. These guys have seen the Cover 2 and Tampa 2 since they were in middle school. It ain’t hard. Now moving away from the zone blocking scheme and more mano y Mano was great. This mantra the light came on just isn’t the case. Now that doesn’t mean they’ve not adjusted how teams have played them.

ZT has gotten WAAAAY better.

However, his default position is still soft. We'll see come this week if he's learned anything (run it more!!).

That 4th down play was still dumb. Never call a play on 4th and short where a physical read beats you. Make him make the read AND defeat a blocker. You don'rlt need to trick anyone to get 6 inches FFS.

Put in a play with 2 guys in the backfield and get the 1st.

(12-10-2022, 12:03 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: ZT has gotten WAAAAY better.

However, his default position is still soft. We'll see come this week if he's learned anything (run it more!!).

That 4th down play was still dumb. Never call a play on 4th and short where a physical read beats you. Make him make the read AND defeat a blocker. You don'rlt need to trick anyone to get 6 inches FFS.

Put in a play with 2 guys in the backfield and get the 1st.

Apparently Burrow audibled into that play.

(12-09-2022, 03:49 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: His growth as a play caller has been substantial. I think, to a degree, Chase's absence helped him just as much as it did Joe Burrow. A lack of our #1 weapon forced them to be creative in their play designs and I've noticed that videos evaluating the Bengals (like JT O'Sullivan of the QB School) called out a few really good play designs in the recent weeks without Chase. Our offense has transcended "Get Chase one on one" and has become more "create plays that give Joe options, and if Chase is one on one, great. Give him a shot."

We started the year with an offense that seemed to be an under center zone running offense and a shotgun/empty set passing offense that were cobbled together into a really predictable and undynamic offense. We now have a majority shotgun offense for both running and passing, but when Joe goes under center they have a potent combination of runs and play action passes.

The talk of Joe Burrow not being comfortable turning his back to the field (as part of under center play action) seems to have been false or at least corrected, which is fantastic.

These transformations in the offense have taken us from an explosive team that could get hot but were spotty and inconsistent (First two weeks of this season, but also the Browns and Ravens games, as well as the Bears, Jaguars, Chargers and Broncos games last year), partially because of the Oline, partially because of our reliance on deep balls, to a consistently dangerous offense the likes of the Chiefs or Bills.

At least we appear to have reached that tier now. We'll see how we finish out the year.

I think Zac has proven himself this year and I'm very happy for him.

Eh. When plays work, fans call it a great call. When it fails, they criticize it.

It's largely execution and blocking. You aren't going to fool defenses every play. You got to win your matchups blocking.

(12-10-2022, 12:59 AM)Wyche Wrote: Apparently Burrow audibled into that play.

He did, which for some fans makes it a way smarter play call... 

(12-09-2022, 11:24 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I listened but I don’t know how they knew what the other play was. They just assumed. Dunlap guessed right and I’m sure his time here helped him.

Ive watched the play a few times, not sure how you don;t chip dunlap, Cappa seemed to fall to ground, gave dunlap straight line into backfield

(12-10-2022, 01:16 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Eh. When plays work, fans call it a great call. When it fails, they criticize it.

It's largely execution and blocking. You aren't going to fool defenses every play. You got to win your matchups blocking.

While I agree that execution is important and was very likely holding the offense back early in the season, especially with Burrow's appendectomy and a brand new Oline (other than Williams), I still think the early offense relied a bit too much on "Look at Chase, throw it to him if he's even remotely open (or just not hopelessly covered). If not him, then we can look at the other receivers" and I think his injury broke both Burrow and ZT of that tendency.

Prior to his injury, Chase had 47 receptions on 74 targets. That is a catch percentage of 63.5% and would be 36th in the NFL among WRs with at least 30 receptions. 


For reference, Tee Higgins is at 70.6%, Boyd is at 69.2%, Hurst is at 76.2% and Perine and Mixon (granted, RB receptions aren't really comparable because they're mostly check downs) are 80% and 77.4%, respectively.

Among all Cincinnati players with at least one target this year, Chase was 10th out of 15 in catch percentage, with only Irwin (8 rec on 13 tgt), Traveon Willliams (1 rec on 2 tgt), Mike Thomas (2 receptions on 10 tgt...Jesus Christ, Mike...), Stanley Morgan (0 for 1) and Devin Asiasi (0 for 2) behind him.

Yet he, through those 7 games, had the most targets on the team by a fairly comfortable margin (Higgins was second with just 44.)

I know Chase is a big play receiver and big play receivers often have lower catch percentages than possession receivers. For instance, AJ Brown had essentially the same catch rate as Chase with a 63.54% (through 12 games, rather than Ja'Marr's 7), but then there are big play receivers like Justin Jefferson (14.5 ypc, 69.3% catch percentage) and Tyreek Hill (14.4 ypc, 74.4% catch percentage) that have high yards per catch and high catch percentages. That is what being a #1 receiver should look like, in my opinion, especially when your QB is completing over 69% of his passes.

Also worth noting, Tee Higgins (14.4) and Tyler Boyd (14.6 ypc) are averaging more yards per reception than Chase this year (13.0), so it isn't like his catch percentage was lower because he was being thrown nothing but low percentage bombs. AJ Brown, on the other hand, leads his team in yards per reception, which makes sense when you look at his low catch percentage.

So, to bring us back to the present, what does Chase do in the game against KC after missing 4 games? He gets 7 receptions on 8 targets, with his only "miss" being the one handed catch out of bounds.

What all of this data tells me, with every attempt at limiting bias and providing context and counter examples, is that the offense prior to Chase's injury relied on Chase making a play rather than consistently throwing to the open man. His low catch percentage tied with his relatively low ypc (relative to the other receivers on his own team in addition to star players with similar catch percentage) is an indication that his low catch percentage was not a result of receiving nothing but low percentage deep balls. He was simply being thrown to when he was not open.

Once he returned, his first game back was a nearly perfect game for him (7 of 8 with the one incompletion being caught but narrowly out of bounds) and Burrow. 

I'm excited to watch this offense moving forward, because losing Chase for a month did cause the offense to evolve and I think we are better off for it.

(12-10-2022, 01:30 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ive watched the play a few times, not sure how you don;t chip dunlap, Cappa seemed to fall to ground, gave dunlap straight line into backfield

Because Dulap's actual job on that play is to crash down and clog the middle. Cappa was were Dunlap was "supposed" to be. 

If anyone has watched many Bengals games, you know their tendency is to run QB sneak or RB into the line and try to find a gap. Dulap just guessed and fortunately for him, he guessed right. 

(12-10-2022, 02:43 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Because Dulap's actual job on that play is to crash down and clog the middle. Cappa was were Dunlap was "supposed" to be. 

If anyone has watched many Bengals games, you know their tendency is to run QB sneak or RB into the line and try to find a gap. Dulap just guessed and fortunately for him, he guessed right. 

And I don't for one minute think he guessed the play. I think he was just going around the pule to try to get to Burrow (you know, another personal stat) and Taylor just happened to be there in his way.

(12-06-2022, 03:03 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I'll be the first to eat crow.

I always liked ZT as a head coach, but always thought his offense was lacking. It was set up on go balls to Chase and his offense wasn't sustainable.

After the first half of the season, a lot of us complained about the offense and how we couldn't beat cover two.

Well, this offense has evolved remarkably since then. They are using the entire field, throwing intermediate, and running with consistency.

I think we need to give ZT and his offensive staff a TON of credit for adjusting on the fly and turning this offense around from one dimensional to completely fluent.

Bengals EPA vs Cover 2
First 6 weeks: -.07 (28th in league)
After week 6: .36 (1st)

That is incredible.

This subject came up last year after play-off wins on way to Super Bowl.  I pointed out that I was given a hard time on this site in 2019 and 2020 because I said Coach Taylor needs more time.  That Coach Lewis left the cupboard bare and this team was a disaster area when Coach Taylor was hired.  That it was silly to expect a good team in Coach Taylors first 2 years here.  Add in that 2020 Covid did not even allow the new coach to have preseason games and spring camps to look at who to keep and who to cut. I also pointed out that coaches do not line up to come to Cincinnati. So I was one of the few on here who said to give Coach Taylor more time, that 2 years was not enough. 

Some on here remembered me saying that when this subject came up last season.  So they said they did remember my saying to keep Coach Taylor on all the fire Taylor posts during his first 2 years.  Of course I was remembering what Paul Brown said when he became coach of the Bengals, he said do not expect a winning team the first few years.  I feel the Bengals were in a complete rebuild like an expansion team when Coach Taylor was hired. 

Now that said, I feel one of the worst coached games by Coach Taylor was this years 2022 game at Cleveland.  Taylor has a bad habit of wanting to pass every play, and he fell into this mode against Cleveland at Halloween.  Pass, Pass, Pass.  So Cleveland only had to cover the receivers and sack Burrow on defense.  During and after this game TV announcers were all over Coach Taylor for not even trying to run on Cleveland in this loss.  The Bengals at this point were 4-4 on the season and going nowhere.  Coach Taylor must have listened, because since then it has been big games by Mixon and Perine and 4 straight wins to get to 8-4.  Now comes Cleveland again.  If Coach Taylor goes Pass, Pass, Pass all game again and loses, that will be just stupid coaching.  I'm hoping he has learned and will get Mixon and Perine involved as they have been in the last 4 wins.  Plus, teams are beating Cleveland with their running backs. 

(12-10-2022, 01:30 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ive watched the play a few times, not sure how you don;t chip dunlap, Cappa seemed to fall to ground, gave dunlap straight line into backfield

I agree

(12-10-2022, 01:30 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ive watched the play a few times, not sure how you don;t chip dunlap, Cappa seemed to fall to ground, gave dunlap straight line into backfield

Look at the 3T over Volson.  Guy is on his knees crashing the A gap to stop the QB sneak.  Dunlap would have given up the QB sneak had Joe kept it and went to his side. Dunlap absolutely did not do his job and lucked out, looked exactly like DE moved inside to try to play DT.  He absolutely left his assignment of A gap control.

(12-10-2022, 04:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I agree

Why?

(12-10-2022, 05:16 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Look at the 3T over Volson.  Guy is on his knees crashing the A gap to stop the QB sneak.  Dunlap would have given up the QB sneak had Joe kept it and went to his side. Dunlap absolutely did not do his job and lucked out, looked exactly like DE moved inside to try to play DT.  He absolutely left his assignment of A gap control.

I said the samething, not doing his job as usual and he lucked into making play!! He isn't even out of his stance in that frame either...

We can also complain about the previous plays on 2nd and 3rd down as well.

2nd and 3rd - Jones destroys Cappa killing the attempted double team by him and LC and grabs Perine at the line of scrimmage, otherwise that play is a first down.

3rd and 1 - QB sneak, Jones at NG stands Karras up and his right foot remains planted in the ground, Burrow attempts to hit the B gap behind Cappa and seems to trip over Karras leg resulting in him diving into the line off one leg instead of driving.

Jones is a great player blowing up two plays up the gut, thus Burrow may have wanted to avoid Jones and Dunlap was seemingly undisciplined and made the play on 3rd down.

That was a great video and cleared a lot up.

Zac secures a winning record for the year.