(12-19-2022, 11:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:

It's unreal that we have a quarterback that's this good and he's doing it all behind a shitty offensive line!

Imagine how good he'll be when we protect him!

Has BFritz"s account been hacked?  This is worse than a game day thread doomsday comment in the 1st quarter.

(12-20-2022, 11:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: So I counter with examples and proof and you counter with an ad hominem attack.

Sounds logical.

I linked a tweet thread full of “examples.” That guy literally breaks down every player on the line for every game, and actually coaches OL. Is it possible he has a better eye for this stuff than most?

(12-20-2022, 11:42 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I linked a tweet thread full of “examples.” That guy literally breaks down every player on the line for every game, and actually coaches OL. Is it possible he has a better eye for this stuff than most?

Could you please link it again because I see links of tweets with grades but no specific examples, even though "he breaks down every play of the game."

Maybe they improve after the first few series, but the series that I mentioned were nowhere near even average.

(12-20-2022, 11:31 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Burrow had to throw the ball quickly and Burrow didn't have any time to stand in the pocket.

Other quarterbacks do, so do defenses just decide that they're not going to rush other quarterbacks?

Have you truly watched other NFL games as closely as you do Bengals games?  If you did you would definitely realize that the time Burrow has in the pocket is right in line with every other QB in the league, outside of Hurts.  

I think what Burrow went through last year (with a legitimately shitty OL) has all left us a bit gun shy in terms of thinking every pressure, hit, and obviously sack equates to this current unit being "shitty" too.  Which is clearly not the case at all.

(12-20-2022, 11:51 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Could you please link it again because I see links of tweets with grades but no specific examples, even though "he breaks down every play of the game."

Maybe they improve after the first few series, but the series that I mentioned were nowhere near even average.

Brad you are so off base with these comments and every oline has few nonproductive series. You are losing credibility with each bad take.

(12-20-2022, 11:52 PM)JumboTron Wrote: Have you truly watched other NFL games as closely as you do Bengals games?  If you did you would definitely realize that the time Burrow has in the pocket is right in line with every other QB in the league, outside of Hurts.  

I think what Burrow went through last year (with a legitimately shitty OL) has all left us a bit gun shy in terms of thinking every pressure, hit, and obviously sack equates to this current unit being "shitty" too.  Which is clearly not the case at all.

Even the quarterbacks we play don't have that much pressure that often! 

I watch other games pretty damn closely.

(12-20-2022, 11:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Brad you are so off base with these comments and every oline has few nonproductive series. You are losing credibility with each bad take.

Once again, no examples or proof. Just ad hominem attacks. You're building my credibility.

Come back when you have something real.

(12-21-2022, 12:19 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Even the quarterbacks we play don't have that much pressure that often! 

I watch other games pretty damn closely.

Once again, no examples or proof. Just ad hominem attacks. You're building my credibility.

Come back when you have something real.

All the stats after week 8 or 9 has the Bengals in the top group of most categories, especially epa win rate for rush and pass blocking.

Saying the the current "oline is shitty" is incredibly uninformed and something expected from a Browns fan who never watches our games. I am under the impression that you actually do watch games, thus there are not many reasons why you have this opinion.

(12-20-2022, 11:02 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: So you ignore my post of real examples from watching film to two guys that just say "our OL played great," with no examples or anything real? 

Burrow didn't get sacked on some of the plays I mentioned but the line was pushed into his face and he had to throw quickly. The line gets a good grade for that?

Uh, the other team's Defense gets paid to play well too....

(12-21-2022, 12:26 AM)casear2727 Wrote: All the stats after week 8 or 9 has the Bengals in the top group of most categories, especially epa win rate for rush and pass blocking.

Saying the the current "oline is shitty" is incredibly uninformed and something expected from a Browns fan who never watches our games. I am under the impression that you actually do watch games, thus there are not many reasons why you have this opinion.

So I list specific examples, you just post numbers, and I'm the one that doesn't watch games?

You'll have to explain that one to all of us.

(12-21-2022, 09:58 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Uh, the other team's Defense gets paid to play well too....

How is that in any way a response to my post?

I never said they didn't, but good offensive lines don't get pushed into quarterback's faces like that.

(12-21-2022, 02:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: So I list specific examples, you just post numbers, and I'm the one that doesn't watch games?

You'll have to explain that one to all of us.

How is that in any way a response to my post?

I never said they didn't, but good offensive lines don't get pushed into quarterback's faces like that.

Is it possible that your eye test, which may be biased since you're trying to support the claim our line sucks and Burrow is best, may not be as reliable as actual professionals who do this for a living, data, and everyone's else eye tests? 

(12-21-2022, 02:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: So I list specific examples, you just post numbers, and I'm the one that doesn't watch games?

You'll have to explain that one to all of us.

How is that in any way a response to my post?

I never said they didn't, but good offensive lines don't get pushed into quarterback's faces like that.

Really, because I seem to remember our DT's utilizing offensive guards to tackle the opposing QBs.... So when players like Atkins, Reader, Ogunjobi, Topou et al push the pocket back and either pressure or sack the QB, it's because they are great DT's, but when our guys O line guys get pushed back it's because they suck? 

(12-21-2022, 03:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Really, because I seem to remember our DT's utilizing offensive guards to tackle the opposing QBs.... So when players like Atkins, Reader, Ogunjobi, Topou et al push the pocket back and either pressure or sack the QB, it's because they are great DT's, but when our guys O line guys get pushed back it's because they suck? 

 It doesn't happen pretty much every play when we're on defense.

(12-21-2022, 03:25 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:  It doesn't happen pretty much every play when we're on defense.

Nor does it happen on pretty much every play when we're on offense. Burrow has had lots of time this year for the most part.

(12-21-2022, 08:27 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Nor does it happen on pretty much every play when we're on offense. Burrow has had lots of time this year for the most part.

Once again, I watched the first two drives so I have real evidence of it happening pretty often and I remember it being a problem all year. It has gotten better, which is sad that that game was better.

(12-21-2022, 08:54 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Once again, I watched the first two drives so I have real evidence of it happening pretty often and I remember it being a problem all year. It has gotten better, which is sad that that game was better.

That's not a valid assessment vs all the other professionals, opinions, and data available out there. You're basing your opinion of the game off the first 2-3 drives. Was our defense horrible beca they gave up some drives in the first half? Heck, I guess our defense has been awful all year because they've had multiple drives in games where they gave up points like it was nothing. 

(12-21-2022, 09:16 PM)TheFan Wrote: That's not a valid assessment vs all the other professionals, opinions, and data available out there. You're basing your opinion of the game off the first 2-3 drives. Was our defense horrible beca they gave up some drives in the first half? Heck, I guess our defense has been awful all year because they've had multiple drives in games where they gave up points like it was nothing. 

Except what happened last game has been happening all year and our line, even though it has been better, is still bad.

(12-21-2022, 10:23 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Except what happened last game has been happening all year and our line, even though it has been better, is still bad.

Our defense hasn't had bad drives all year as well? We can all pick and choose plays or series to prove our points. But the data over the course of the entire year is what it is, and its not biased like you or I. 

Sorry if this has been stated already during the back-and-forth about the OL as being better or not. I only skimmed the thread. There isn't an easy way to really judge OL play, I contend, compared to skill positions that accumulate stats.

In '21 Burrow was sacked 51 times in the regular season (Yes, I know all of these aren't on the OL).

For '22, Burrow has so far been sacked 37 times during the regular season. This includes 13 times in the first two games.

Source: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BurrJo01.htm

Maybe these stats reflect the OL is better this year than last? I think it does.

(12-19-2022, 11:55 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: This is the best line we have had in years

“To be fair…to beeee faiiir…..TOOO BEEEE FAIIRRRRR….the bar was lower than worm shit.”

(12-22-2022, 10:11 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Sorry if this has been stated already during the back-and-forth about the OL as being better or not. I only skimmed the thread. There isn't an easy way to really judge OL play, I contend, compared to skill positions that accumulate stats.

In '21 Burrow was sacked 51 times in the regular season (Yes, I know all of these aren't on the OL).

For '22, Burrow has so far been sacked 37 times during the regular season. This includes 13 times in the first two games.

Source: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BurrJo01.htm

Maybe these stats reflect the OL is better this year than last? I think it does.

Outside outhouse first two games, it hasn't been bad.  

Last year I'd be down low wondering how long Burrow would last in the league taking the kind of abuse he did on a regular basis.  I've watched bad Bengal lines, but it was out of hand and dangerous.

I haven't had that feeling since September this year.  It's been said repeatedly, but even when he does take a sack, often times he has a good 3 seconds before the defender gets hand on him.  

I think that's about all you can ask from an offensive line in this league unless you are lucky enough to have a no-doubt elite unit.  There may be 2 of those at best out of 32 teams.  I'd be comfortable saying this is possibly a top 10 group, with the floor being top 15.  I'd err closer top top 10, TBH.