(12-23-2022, 01:36 PM)samhain Wrote: I mostly agree, especially about the injury prone part.  

I can't quite say he's overrated until I see him on a team that's actually willing to supply him with weapons.  Outside of Andrews, Baltimore has given him little to nothing to work with in terms of pass-catchers.  Their overall philosophy on team building is aging out as the league becomes almost completely offense-oriented.  

The traditional Ravens roster will get smoked by any of the higher powered offenses at the top of the AFC right now.  

I agree. It's hard to completely agree that he is overrated because the Ravens have supplied him with actual buttcheeks as receivers for most of his career. Hollywood was good, and was productive, but they ran him out of town. This season he has been throwing to Bateman (hasn't played much), Duvernay, Proche, Tylan Wallace, Demarcus Robinson and the corpse of Desean Jackson. Of course, Andrews as well. That receiving corps is ass. 

I don't think he is as good as Burrow, but I would also be a liar if I said that I believed Burrow would still look this good while throwing to a group of guys like that. 

(12-24-2022, 12:09 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I agree. It's hard to completely agree that he is overrated because the Ravens have supplied him with actual buttcheeks as receivers for most of his career. Hollywood was good, and was productive, but they ran him out of town. This season he has been throwing to Bateman (hasn't played much), Duvernay, Proche, Tylan Wallace, Demarcus Robinson and the corpse of Desean Jackson. Of course, Andrews as well. That receiving corps is ass. 

I don't think he is as good as Burrow, but I would also be a liar if I said that I believed Burrow would still look this good while throwing to a group of guys like that. 

The Ravens don’t supply him with quality receivers because he can’t utilize receivers well at all. Lamar throws deep, and over the middle. Anything to the sideline and outside the hashes he has a problem with.

Hollywood Brown in Arizona for the first 6 games he was healthy was a top 5 WR in the NFL before he got injured. He has that type of talent. Lamar puts a hard cap on WR’s potential. Receivers don’t want to pay for Baltimore.

(12-24-2022, 12:13 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: The Ravens don’t supply him with quality receivers because he can’t utilize receivers well at all. Lamar throws deep, and over the middle. Anything to the sideline and outside the hashes he has a problem with.

Hollywood Brown in Arizona for the first 6 games he was healthy was a top 5 WR in the NFL before he got injured. He has that type of talent. Lamar puts a hard cap on WR’s potential. Receivers don’t want to pay for Baltimore.

I'm not 100% convinced it is Lamar. Hollywood was showing that kind of production in Baltimore but he didn't receive as many opportunities as he was early on in Arizona. He was receiving nearly 20% more targets in Arizona on a per game basis which was leading to higher raw production, but his overall efficiency was very similar. In the first five weeks this season, Brown was averaging 1.67 yards per route ran. Last season in Baltimore, he was averaging 1.61. Less than a 4% difference.

He was quite good and productive with Lamar, but wasn't receiving the volume he wanted, which is ultimately what came out as the reason for his wanting to leave. He wasn't happy with his role in the offense. Basically, I think it was more Greg Roman than Lamar, and that style of offense is why receivers don't want to go there. 

(12-24-2022, 12:23 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm not 100% convinced it is Lamar. Hollywood was showing that kind of production in Baltimore but he didn't receive as many opportunities as he was early on in Arizona. He was receiving nearly 20% more targets in Arizona on a per game basis which was leading to higher raw production, but his overall efficiency was very similar. In the first five weeks this season, Brown was averaging 1.67 yards per route ran. Last season in Baltimore, he was averaging 1.61. Less than a 4% difference.

He was quite good and productive with Lamar, but wasn't receiving the volume he wanted, which is ultimately what came out as the reason for his wanting to leave. He wasn't happy with his role in the offense. Basically, I think it was more Greg Roman than Lamar, and that style of offense is why receivers don't want to go there. 

Before we go any further, are you from Kentucky? Do you like Louisville? Were you a Lamar fan when he was in college?

(12-24-2022, 12:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Before we go any further, are you from Kentucky? Do you like Louisville? Were you a Lamar fan when he was in college?

No, I’m from Oklahoma and I am an Oregon fan.

(12-24-2022, 12:42 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: No, I’m from Oklahoma and I am an Oregon fan.

Oh, I thought there had to be some kind of sentimental attachment there. Nope, turns out you’re just incorrect lol

(12-23-2022, 09:43 AM)Whacked Wrote: Speaking of the Turdbirds…
Some interesting nuggets in Rat-Land

I read an article that Lamar wants out of Baltimore and that the Atlanta may be his landing spot

Also saw that Duverney (sp?) is out for the season on an injury. I think that dude “can be” dynamic and dangerous ….“at times” ….so it sure doesn’t hurt is that’s for sure.

Atlanta is the best spot for him. Offensively they’re not too far off Baltimore and are used to mobile quarterbacks. Question is does the falcons want to use a large part of their 190 mill in cap space on Lamar.

(12-24-2022, 01:29 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Atlanta is the best spot for him. Offensively they’re not too far off Baltimore and are used to mobile quarterbacks. Question is does the falcons want to use a large part of their 190 mill in cap space on Lamar.

Yup. I’ll let you know if I want him to stay in Baltimore or move to Atlanta after the final game of the season lol

Underestimate marmar at your peril. He’s not precise, but he’s talented. A QB in his mold probably has a limited shelf life in the NFL, but while he’s still in one piece, he’s dangerous. IMHO.

(12-24-2022, 11:06 PM)SladeX Wrote: Underestimate marmar at your peril. He’s not precise, but he’s talented. A QB in his mold probably has a limited shelf life in the NFL, but while he’s still in one piece, he’s dangerous. IMHO.

Playoff Lamar is a choker

You must’ve watched a lot of Lamar games when he was at Louisville

I’m assuming all fans of Lamar here are from Kentucky lol

(12-24-2022, 12:23 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm not 100% convinced it is Lamar. Hollywood was showing that kind of production in Baltimore but he didn't receive as many opportunities as he was early on in Arizona. He was receiving nearly 20% more targets in Arizona on a per game basis which was leading to higher raw production, but his overall efficiency was very similar. In the first five weeks this season, Brown was averaging 1.67 yards per route ran. Last season in Baltimore, he was averaging 1.61. Less than a 4% difference.

He was quite good and productive with Lamar, but wasn't receiving the volume he wanted, which is ultimately what came out as the reason for his wanting to leave. He wasn't happy with his role in the offense. Basically, I think it was more Greg Roman than L9amar, and that style of offense is why receivers don't want to go there. 

Lamar has zero anticipation with his throws. He can put it in a pre determined spots and has a solid deep ball but he will always struggle with second level throws.

(12-24-2022, 12:23 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm not 100% convinced it is Lamar. Hollywood was showing that kind of production in Baltimore but he didn't receive as many opportunities as he was early on in Arizona. He was receiving nearly 20% more targets in Arizona on a per game basis which was leading to higher raw production, but his overall efficiency was very similar. In the first five weeks this season, Brown was averaging 1.67 yards per route ran. Last season in Baltimore, he was averaging 1.61. Less than a 4% difference.

He was quite good and productive with Lamar, but wasn't receiving the volume he wanted, which is ultimately what came out as the reason for his wanting to leave. He wasn't happy with his role in the offense. Basically, I think it was more Greg Roman than Lamar, and that style of offense is why receivers don't want to go there. 

I'm not sure what else he could have wanted. In 2021 he was the 10th highest target receiver in the league, including TEs. If a ball wasn't going to Mark Andrews it was going to him. Andrews was just way better when he was targeted. 

Brown had around 20 more targets than Chase and like 400 less yards. 

(12-25-2022, 12:08 AM)TheFan Wrote: I'm not sure what else he could have wanted. In 2021 he was the 10th highest target receiver in the league, including TEs. If a ball wasn't going to Mark Andrews it was going to him. Andrews was just way better when he was targeted. 

Brown had around 20 more targets than Chase and like 400 less yards. 

Wide receivers want to be featured.... with Lamar they will always be secondary to him and Mark Andrews.  Why go to a system designed that way? 

I'd be interested to see what Lamar can do with a true #1 but it wont be in Baltimore. 

(12-24-2022, 11:30 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Playoff Lamar is a choker

You must’ve watched a lot of Lamar games when he was at Louisville

I’m assuming all fans of Lamar here are from Kentucky lol

I’m not a fan of his.

(12-25-2022, 12:20 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Wide receivers want to be featured.... with Lamar they will always be secondary to him and Mark Andrews.  Why go to a system designed that way? 

I'd be interested to see what Lamar can do with a true #1 but it wont be in Baltimore. 

Top 10 in the NFL in targets is not being featured? I'm not saying you're wrong and he didn’t feel that way, but he's stupid and a selfish player if he did.  

(12-25-2022, 12:08 AM)TheFan Wrote: I'm not sure what else he could have wanted. In 2021 he was the 10th highest target receiver in the league, including TEs. If a ball wasn't going to Mark Andrews it was going to him. Andrews was just way better when he was targeted. 

Brown had around 20 more targets than Chase and like 400 less yards. 

Well, I think he was getting what he wanted early this season. He was on pace for 181 targets after the first six games, which was roughly a 24% increase over last season. He believes he is that kind of guy and wants the volume to match. 

(12-24-2022, 11:39 PM)Synric Wrote: Lamar has zero anticipation with his throws. He can put it in a pre determined spots and has a solid deep ball but he will always struggle with second level throws.

Which is fair - I am not trying to say he is an elite level passer. He has his issues and I think his MVP campaign is more of an outlier than anything. I am just saying I am not 100% convinced he is overrated. I'd have him as a top 10-ish guy and that feels fair.  Somewhere between 8-12 is probably the sweet spot. He is a solid passer with weak weapons and is the best athlete to ever play the QB position. His rushing average would rank 24th in YPA for passers - higher than Justin Herbert and on par with guys like Aaron Rodgers. 

Maybe I am off base on what his consensus "ranking" is and that is why I don't feel he is overrated, but the only folks I know who are really high on Lamar are Ravens fans. 

(12-25-2022, 10:59 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Which is fair - I am not trying to say he is an elite level passer. He has his issues and I think his MVP campaign is more of an outlier than anything. I am just saying I am not 100% convinced he is overrated. I'd have him as a top 10-ish guy and that feels fair.  Somewhere between 8-12 is probably the sweet spot. He is a solid passer with weak weapons and is the best athlete to ever play the QB position. His rushing average would rank 24th in YPA for passers - higher than Justin Herbert and on par with guys like Aaron Rodgers. 

Maybe I am off base on what his consensus "ranking" is and that is why I don't feel he is overrated, but the only folks I know who are really high on Lamar are Ravens fans. 

Browsing the Ravens forum they already think he's lost a step. If that is the case then the development of his passing game needs to evolve.  

A pocket passer Lamar Jackson is not a good QB. 

getting back to to the playoffs the Bengals can be no worse than the 6th seed

(12-25-2022, 10:52 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well, I think he was getting what he wanted early this season. He was on pace for 181 targets after the first six games, which was roughly a 24% increase over last season. He believes he is that kind of guy and wants the volume to match. 

Then that takes me back to the part of being a selfish player. The reason Cupp received even close to that many targets is because he was amazingly good and reliable. It makes sense to get that many targets when you're catching almost 75% of them like Cupp did. It makes no sense and is a detriment to everyone when you're not even catching 65%.