(12-14-2015, 05:40 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think we all forget just how successful Dalton was in college. 

Saying McCaron has a stronger arm than Dalton though is just ridiculous. One of the knocks on McCaron coming out of college was his arm strength. Hell, you saw it on the pick six yesterday, that was a damn lollipop throw to the outside that was picked off. 

Don't forget the Duck Hunt audition to Marvin Jones down the sideline......and since when is The Rose Bowl not a big game?  Lol.....AJ has 100% of my support...he's our QB now.  I just can't figure out why some "fans" didn't support our starter and are glad he's out.  

(12-14-2015, 05:40 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think we all forget just how successful Dalton was in college. 

Saying McCaron has a stronger arm than Dalton though is just ridiculous. One of the knocks on McCaron coming out of college was his arm strength. Hell, you saw it on the pick six yesterday, that was a damn lollipop throw to the outside that was picked off. 

No, I am not saying he has a stronger arm than Dalton.  I watched the great majority of McCarron's college games.  No question, he does not have a rocket for an arm.  He is also not as athletic as Dalton is.  No question, I would prefer to have Dalton out there next week.  I do think McCarron is intelligent though, and can hopefully limit his mistakes.  The pick six was terrible, but honestly Whit did not do him any favors with the block either.

As I said in another thread, I think the team beast San Francisco and Baltimore pretty easily.  Denver lost to Oakland yesterday and even with McCarron, the Bengals are a better team than the Raiders.  I was also impressed with the way the team held together yesterday.  Everyone remembers how in 2005 that team went into full meltdown mode... this group did not.  If they somehow hold onto the number two seed, the chances of Dalton leading them in the playoffs greatly improves.

(12-14-2015, 12:49 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm a Dalton guy and he's had an amazing season. That said, I don't care who gets us a playoff W (or W's) as long as it gets done. I'm 100% behind McCarron.

(12-14-2015, 05:16 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Agreed. I'm fully behind AJ, and I hope he or Dalton lead us to the promised land when the postseason comes around.

Agree 100%.  I don't give a flying **** who does it, I just want someone to lead this team to a playoff victory already. 

(12-14-2015, 05:47 PM)Wyche Wrote: Don't forget the Duck Hunt audition to Marvin Jones down the sideline......and since when is The Rose Bowl not a big game?  Lol.....AJ has 100% of my support...he's our QB now.  I just can't figure out why some "fans" didn't support our starter and are glad he's out.  

OK non-CFB fan I can explain.

The Rose Bowl is not a big game when Stanford and TCU are in it and aren't playing for the national championship but only end of season bragging rights. No one but those teams fans and few interested college football junkies even watched that game. TCU was never in the national championship conversation rather they were a potential "BCS Buster" team. That means they were earning respect but still didn't have it. I mean TCU finished 12-0 that year so you would think if they had a tough schedule with a bunch of quality wins they would be in the championship. But they didn't have the schedule so they played in the ROSE BOWL consolation prize. 

The national championship on the other hand draws attention and press like a mini super bowl. The build up includes masses of interviews with reporters and human interest pieces on ESPN. Why do you think AJM has so many articles on ESPN? Its because he was in 2 national championships and he always helped keep Alabama in the national spotlight. Those games (plus the huge buildup to some of his other games within the SEC that had NC implications) did provide AJM with some invaluable experience under the limelight. 

So I hope that answers your question. Dalton won the rose bowl in college and that's great, really it is, but it doesn't hold a candle to the pressure you are under in 2 national championships. 

(12-14-2015, 05:08 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Im not sure how you think McCarron has zero pocket presence. It makes me wonder if people just say things in blind love of Dalton because when you watch his film that is clearly his strong suit. He does have a stronger arm than Dalton, Im not sure how that can be debated either. Do any of us really know if McCarron is better than Dalton or not? Of course not, from what I have watched and I would put my football knowledge up against anyone's on this board. McCarron has the tools to become a very good NFL QB. 

Also please stop comparing Daltons big game resume to McCarrons as its absolutely silly. Are all bowl games considered big when theres absolutely nothing riding on them except bragging rights and maybe a nice gift pack? Lol get outta here with that. McCarron has clearly had more success in big games of importance as Dalton still hasnt won one. 

I didnt want Dalton to get hurt as I felt this could be the year he finally gets over the hump. The injury did happen, cant go undo his injury. McCarron looks like a legit qb in my eyes and now that Dalton is unfortunately out, hopefully he proves it. 

How many times did McCarron step up into a throw? How did he look once he was on the run? How did he look while dropping back and people were coming after him? He's a pocket passer who struggles when blitzed. He isn't athletic so he isn't going to give us what Dalton had.

Debate his arm strength? Have you WATCHED McCarron? He does not have arm strength. Has no zip on the ball. Numerous times in college he threw to wide open receivers. He was a game manager in Alabama. Watch his games against Ole Miss and Virginia Tech, they weren't good at all. While seeing a steady pass rush McCarron struggles greatly. His supporting cast masked that. Watch his tape against defenses that would get after him. He doesn't have arm strength, little zip on the ball. Look at his pick six. He doesn't get the ball out of his hands as quickly as Dalton does.

Bragging rights? Bowl games are important. McCarron lost the Sugar Bowl his final season and even lost the SEC Championship game. So he's 2-1 in Bowl games. Dalton is 3-1. Sure, won a BCS, but again did you see the talent he had around him? Plus, Dalton went undefeated his final season and beat the 11-1 Wisconsin Badgers; a team that knocked off OSU from being #1 and also beat the #15 Iowa.

But that's also a plus. That's what McCarron has now. A great supporting cast. They'll be able to mask his weaknesses. I hope he does well, but he is by no means better than Dalton in any way.

(12-14-2015, 05:37 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: McCarron was an extremely successful quarterback in college.  Trying to diminish that is foolish.

The Bengals have an extremely talented roster, all of whom need to up their game.  This team should definitely be able to beat San Francisco and Baltimore.  Denver lost to Oakland yesterday... even with McCarron as the starter, the Bengals are a better team than the Raiders.  I truly think our best hope is to somehow be able to hold onto the number two seed and maybe Dalton is back by the divisional round.

Successful? Absolutely. Was it all on him Absolutely not. He was a game manager.

McCarron is in a very similar situation like he was in Alabama. Extremely talented roster that can mask his weaknesses. The best thing he can do is be a game manager. Defenses are much quicker than in college and McCarron doesn't fit balls into tight windows. He should be able to at least win 1 game. Hopefully all of them.

All I got to say is this:  If we have two QBs the caliber to win 75% (Dalton) and a backup that wins playoff games, I really got to laugh at the Browns a bit harder.  I mean they've started like 24 QBs over the past decade...

   

(12-14-2015, 06:00 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: No, I am not saying he has a stronger arm than Dalton.  I watched the great majority of McCarron's college games.  No question, he does not have a rocket for an arm.  He is also not as athletic as Dalton is.  No question, I would prefer to have Dalton out there next week.  I do think McCarron is intelligent though, and can hopefully limit his mistakes.  The pick six was terrible, but honestly Whit did not do him any favors with the block either.

As I said in another thread, I think the team beast San Francisco and Baltimore pretty easily.  Denver lost to Oakland yesterday and even with McCarron, the Bengals are a better team than the Raiders.  I was also impressed with the way the team held together yesterday.  Everyone remembers how in 2005 that team went into full meltdown mode... this group did not.  If they somehow hold onto the number two seed, the chances of Dalton leading them in the playoffs greatly improves.

I was talking to the OP, not you. 

I found this report on McCarron from Walter Football...

"McCarron doesn't have an above-average arm or mobility. For the pros, he looks like a solid backup who could function well as a game-manager for a team that is based around a tough defense and running game. McCarron could help a team win in that situation and has the potential to be a quarterback similar to Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens."

This was said about Dalton...

"I have seen Dalton compared to Drew Brees, but at this point, a more realistic comparison is to another player on the New Orleans depth chart. Like Daniel, Dalton lacks ideal height and arm strength, but is an accurate passer. Both played in a shotgun offense at the collegiate level. Daniel was not drafted, but he lacked the "it" factor and perhaps some of that was absorbing losses against stiffer competition in the Big XII."

(12-15-2015, 12:19 PM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: I found this report on McCarron from Walter Football...

"McCarron doesn't have an above-average arm or mobility. For the pros, he looks like a solid backup who could function well as a game-manager for a team that is based around a tough defense and running game. McCarron could help a team win in that situation and has the potential to be a quarterback similar to Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens."

This was said about Dalton...

"I have seen Dalton compared to Drew Brees, but at this point, a more realistic comparison is to another player on the New Orleans depth chart. Like Daniel, Dalton lacks ideal height and arm strength, but is an accurate passer. Both played in a shotgun offense at the collegiate level. Daniel was not drafted, but he lacked the "it" factor and perhaps some of that was absorbing losses against stiffer competition in the Big XII."

Here's the whole report on Dalton 

Strengths: 
[*]Good arm strength
[*]Quick release
[*]Accurate thrower
[*]Smart; protects the football
[*]Mobile with scrambling ability
[*]Intelligent and tough
[*]Proven leader, passion for the game
[*]Winner at collegiate level
[*]Durable, experienced 4-year starter 

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2011adalton_greg.php#pTGaoHbaf1laYTQ1.99


[*]Height is not idea
[*]Lacks elite characteristics
[*]Product of spread offense
[*]Release point needs to be adjusted
[*]Not many games against top competition
[*]Footwork needs improvement 

Summary: Andy Dalton had a terrific collegiate career that included helping TCU not only to a BCS bowl (Rose) win, but in the bigger picture, played a part in the program joining the "Big Six" fraternity as a future member of the Big East. He put up solid if not spectacular statistics most of his career, really peaking as a senior with by far his best season on paper. More importantly he kept improving - and winning. 

Of course, most of that came in the Mountain West. Against "Big Six" competition, his record was 7-3, although a few of those teams were lesser opponents. He went 3-3 against Utah and Boise State. Still, he saved his best for last in the victory over Wisconsin which really opened eyes. 

Dalton has the toughness to be successful, but will have to overcome his lack of height and learn the pro style offense. 

Player Comparison: Chase Daniel. I have seen Dalton compared to Drew Brees, but at this point, a more realistic comparison is to another player on the New Orleans depth chart. Like Daniel, Dalton lacks ideal height and arm strength, but is an accurate passer. Both played in a shotgun offense at the collegiate level. Daniel was not drafted, but he lacked the "it" factor and perhaps some of that was absorbing losses against stiffer competition in the Big XII. 

Clearly Dalton is going to be drafted, and fairly early. Projecting him to the pros, however, I see a slightly better Chase Daniel

(12-15-2015, 12:44 PM)Se ky bengal Wrote: Here's the whole report on Dalton 





[*]Height is not idea
[*]Lacks elite characteristics
[*]Product of spread offense
[*]Release point needs to be adjusted
[*]Not many games against top competition
[*]Footwork needs improvement 

Summary: Andy Dalton had a terrific collegiate career that included helping TCU not only to a BCS bowl (Rose) win, but in the bigger picture, played a part in the program joining the "Big Six" fraternity as a future member of the Big East. He put up solid if not spectacular statistics most of his career, really peaking as a senior with by far his best season on paper. More importantly he kept improving - and winning. 

Of course, most of that came in the Mountain West. Against "Big Six" competition, his record was 7-3, although a few of those teams were lesser opponents. He went 3-3 against Utah and Boise State. Still, he saved his best for last in the victory over Wisconsin which really opened eyes. 

Dalton has the toughness to be successful, but will have to overcome his lack of height and learn the pro style offense. 

Player Comparison: Chase Daniel. I have seen Dalton compared to Drew Brees, but at this point, a more realistic comparison is to another player on the New Orleans depth chart. Like Daniel, Dalton lacks ideal height and arm strength, but is an accurate passer. Both played in a shotgun offense at the collegiate level. Daniel was not drafted, but he lacked the "it" factor and perhaps some of that was absorbing losses against stiffer competition in the Big XII. 

Clearly Dalton is going to be drafted, and fairly early. Projecting him to the pros, however, I see a slightly better Chase Daniel

[*]

AJM 

[*]Limits mistakes 
[*]Makes good decisions 
[*]Quality game-manager 
[*]Field vision 
[*]Ball security 
[*]Distributes the ball to a variety of weapons 
[*]Good on touch passes 
[*]Basis for good footwork 
[*]Accurate 
[*]Improved throughout college 
[*]Intelligent 
[*]Hard worker 
[*]3-year starter 
[*]Leader 
[*]Good teammate 
[*]Experienced and successful against elite college programs

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014amccarron.php#9ozps1C42SZuqgZY.99

    Lacks arm strength *this didn't copy 

[*]for a vertical offense 
[*]Doesn't throw into tight windows 
[*]Needs to improve anticipation 
[*]Can get rattled by pass rush 
[*]Little mobility 
[*]Not a running threat 
[*]Not a play-maker 


Summary: McCarron was a steady presence in the Alabama offense over the past three seasons and helped guide the Crimson Tide to two national championships. With a great defense and running game, Alabama didn't have McCarron throw the ball that often, and when he did he had a lot of wide-open receivers, but the Crimson Tide didn't need McCarron to be a play-maker in order to win. McCarron was a good game-manager and was more capable than John Parker Wilson or Greg McElroy. 

McCarron won the starting quarterback job as a sophomore after McElroy moved on to the NFL. McCarron had the luxury of a tremendous running game and defense to carry Alabama to a National Championship in 2011. He completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,634 yards with 16 touchdowns and five interceptions for the year.  

Alabama repeated as National Champions the next season. Once again, McCarron had the support of a great running game, and one of the best offensive lines in college football history. The junior completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,933 yards with 30 touchdowns and three interceptions. He had great opportunities to throw the ball with defenses focused on stopping the Crimson Tide's rushing attack. 

McCarron generally played well in 2013 even though his supporting cast wasn't as good as the previous two seasons. The senior completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,063 yards with 28 touchdowns and seven interceptions. His performances versus Virginia Tech and Ole Miss in 2013 were underwhelming. 

On the flip side, he played extremely well against Texas A&M to win a shootout at Kyle Field. To end his collegiate career, McCarron struggled against Oklahoma. He was rattled by the Sooners' pass-rushers and had three turnovers. It illustrated the concern that McCarron's superb supporting cast was masking some weaknesses in his game during the past three years. McCarron rarely ever saw a steady pass rush as his tremendous offensive line constantly kept clean pockets for him.

McCarron doesn't have a very strong arm for the NFL level and doesn't fit a lot of throws into tight windows. His anticipation could be better as well. It is clear that Alabama coached McCarron to be a good game-manager and not turn the ball over. He was very good at avoiding interceptions, but he often had wide-open receivers; a luxury that won't be available in the NFL. McCarron was a reliable game-manager, but he isn't a play-maker who can produce points on his own ability to beat a defense. 

McCarron doesn't have an above-average arm or mobility. For the pros, he looks like a solid backup who could function well as a game-manager for a team that is based around a tough defense and running game. McCarron could help a team win in that situation and has the potential to be a quarterback similar to Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens. 

That being said, some teams view McCarron more favorably. WalterFootball.com knows one quarterback-needy team picking in the top 10 that has McCarron rated ahead of Teddy Bridgewater. McCarron looks like a second-day pick for the 2014 NFL Draft. 











[*]

Player Comparison: Brodie Croyle. Sources told me they didn't see a real difference between McCarron and Croyle. In fact, they felt that Croyle has a stronger arm than McCarron. Since entering the NFL as a third-round pick of the Chiefs, Croyle has been a backup quarterback. McCarron looks like he could be a solid backup and game-manager to finish games if a starter is injured or help as a starter in a limited amount of time. 
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2014amccarron.php#Tu84XYb8c6VgsqTQ.99

Bama qb's are 0-13 since 1987 as starters in NFL.

(12-15-2015, 12:19 PM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: I found this report on McCarron from Walter Football...

"McCarron doesn't have an above-average arm or mobility. For the pros, he looks like a solid backup who could function well as a game-manager for a team that is based around a tough defense and running game. McCarron could help a team win in that situation and has the potential to be a quarterback similar to Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens."

This was said about Dalton...

"I have seen Dalton compared to Drew Brees, but at this point, a more realistic comparison is to another player on the New Orleans depth chart. Like Daniel, Dalton lacks ideal height and arm strength, but is an accurate passer. Both played in a shotgun offense at the collegiate level. Daniel was not drafted, but he lacked the "it" factor and perhaps some of that was absorbing losses against stiffer competition in the Big XII."

Scouts have been wrong on MANY occasions in the past, and were obviously wrong when comparing Dalton to Chase Daniel.  Let's hope they are just as wrong about McCarron.

Before we anoint this guy Tom Brady status, let's see what he does the next few weeks. He's a second year guy with very little game experience. The good news is that he has great weapons and a good O-line.

His lack of experience is of concern to me, but expect him to win Balt/SF. Denver, in Denver will be something to see as their D is stout.

Of course, I want to believe he's going to be awesome!

(12-14-2015, 11:25 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: OK non-CFB fan I can explain.

The Rose Bowl is not a big game when Stanford and TCU are in it and aren't playing for the national championship but only end of season bragging rights. No one but those teams fans and few interested college football junkies even watched that game. TCU was never in the national championship conversation rather they were a potential "BCS Buster" team. That means they were earning respect but still didn't have it. I mean TCU finished 12-0 that year so you would think if they had a tough schedule with a bunch of quality wins they would be in the championship. But they didn't have the schedule so they played in the ROSE BOWL consolation prize. 

The national championship on the other hand draws attention and press like a mini super bowl. The build up includes masses of interviews with reporters and human interest pieces on ESPN. Why do you think AJM has so many articles on ESPN? Its because he was in 2 national championships and he always helped keep Alabama in the national spotlight. Those games (plus the huge buildup to some of his other games within the SEC that had NC implications) did provide AJM with some invaluable experience under the limelight. 

So I hope that answers your question. Dalton won the rose bowl in college and that's great, really it is, but it doesn't hold a candle to the pressure you are under in 2 national championships. 

*Ahem*.....it was TCU v/s. Wisconsin (and I watched it whistle to whistle).....and TCU was most certainly in that conversation that season, as they were undefeated, and some folks said they deserved a crack at it. If memory serves, didn't they wind up #2 that year......and I'm the non CFB fan?

Son....listen.....if there's anything I am more crazy about than Bengals football, it's FSU "Criminoles" football.  I have been wearing a Chief Osceola pendant around my neck since 1986.  You're barking up the wrong tree there friend.  "The Grandaddy of Them All" is always a big game, no matter the NCAA's implications and their farce of a "National Champion" structure......especially during that pre "playoff" era.

Now, I get your pressure scenarios, but it could also be argued that one was surrounded by NFL caliber talent, and a HOF HC, and the other carried his team.  See how that works?  I know you cats that don't like Dalton can't stand to give the guy any credit, but he's actually a pretty good player.

(12-15-2015, 01:08 PM)Shouldamapads Wrote: Before we anoint this guy Tom Brady status, let's see what he does the next few weeks.  He's a second year guy with very little game experience.  The good news is that he has great weapons and a good O-line.  

His lack of experience is of concern to me, but expect him to win Balt/SF.  Denver, in Denver will be something to see as their D is stout.

Of course, I want to believe he's going to be awesome!

.....and that's a shame, because there has been time for him to get it a few times this season, and the coaches left him on the bench.

(12-15-2015, 01:40 PM)Wyche Wrote: .....and that's a shame, because there has been time for him to get it a few times this season, and the coaches left him on the bench.

I would like to think that Dalton has fought to stay in there.  I look at a Brady or Manning, they don't want to come off the field under any circumstances.  Remember last year when Denver was going to put Osweiler in a game... he went to get his helmet off the bench and Manning took the field instead?

(12-15-2015, 01:44 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I would like to think that Dalton has fought to stay in there.  I look at a Brady or Manning, they don't want to come off the field under any circumstances.  Remember last year when Denver was going to put Osweiler in a game... he went to get his helmet off the bench and Manning took the field instead?

Could very well be.....and we have the benefit of hindsight, but it sure would have been nice to get AJ some experience looking back on things....

(12-15-2015, 01:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: Could very well be.....and we have the benefit of hindsight, but it sure would have been nice to get AJ some experience looking back on things....

Agreed.  I will say that I was impressed with his overall demeanor when he came in the game.  He looked calm, not like the situation was too big for him.

(12-15-2015, 02:08 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Agreed.  I will say that I was impressed with his overall demeanor when he came in the game.  He looked calm, not like the situation was too big for him.

This is what gives me hope with the whole situation....his calm in the storm was impressive.  My only concerns are his arm strength....and the obvious experience issue.  However, I think his work ethic will help with the experience bit.

(12-15-2015, 12:19 PM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: I found this report on McCarron from Walter Football...

"McCarron doesn't have an above-average arm or mobility. For the pros, he looks like a solid backup who could function well as a game-manager for a team that is based around a tough defense and running game. McCarron could help a team win in that situation and has the potential to be a quarterback similar to Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens."

This was said about Dalton...

"I have seen Dalton compared to Drew Brees, but at this point, a more realistic comparison is to another player on the New Orleans depth chart. Like Daniel, Dalton lacks ideal height and arm strength, but is an accurate passer. Both played in a shotgun offense at the collegiate level. Daniel was not drafted, but he lacked the "it" factor and perhaps some of that was absorbing losses against stiffer competition in the Big XII."

Walterfootball also said that Tajh Boyd's comparison was Russell Wilson and Manziel to a younger Mike Vick. Oh! And compared Geno Smith to Donovan McNabb.
Then throw in Jimmy Clausen viewed as Kurt Warner.

But you also have to look at who wrote those, Greg Cox. A guy who only scouted a few quarterbacks that season. He hasn't scouted quarterbacks on the website before or after.
Seriously. Check out every other scouting report, it's either McGuire or Campbell.
Cox scouted 3 quarterbacks. Gabbert, Kaepernick, and Dalton.

Context is key.