Let's not forget that Green has Dalton throwing it to him instead of Roethlisberger.

(05-13-2015, 02:43 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Let's not forget that Green has Dalton throwing it to him instead of Roethlisberger.

AJ is the better WR. Brown is terrific, and a dynamic returner as well. Much respect to the player he has turned out to be, and I'd love to have him on our team, but AJ is the 2nd best WR in the league. Put him on a team with the Ben, Rodgers, Brady, Manning etc and there isn't even a debate between him and Brown. It's not AJ's fault he plays with a sub-par QB...And to the Andy defenders I'm not trashing him, just calling it how it is. I still hold out hope he gets us where we want to go

(05-12-2015, 02:33 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Defense can have its own thread, but would do you have if you're piecing together an AFCN offense?

QB: Ben Roethlisberger
RB1: La'Veon Bell
RB2: Jeremy Hill
WR1: AJ Green
WR2: Antonio Brown
WR3: Steve Smith
TE1: Heath Miller
TE2: Dennis Pitta
LT: Joe Thomas
LG: Andrew Whitworth
C: Alex Mack
RG: Maurkice Pouncey
RT: Andre Smith


Actually not a lot of TE's to pick from. Miller's not great but has played decent for his entire career so he's very consistent. Ben is the most proven consistent QB in the division. A lot of decent RB's and WR's to pick from. Shifted some linemen around to get what I think is the best 5 linemen.

(05-13-2015, 02:25 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If you stated that both are better than both Smiths, then you are also suggesting the pair is better than the Smiths as a pair.

I said that Torrey Smith would be the 4th WR on the bengals. I never addressed them as a pair because we had Green. Your now throwing in Steve Smith but honestly I would take both over him. He is too old. Numbers are better because the Ravens have no one else to throw the ball.

Sanu or Jones would have started for the Ravena quite easily.

And the whole point of that discussion was the Ravens inability to recognize and draft WR talent. Which seems to be Ozzie's kryptonite.

How do we stack up against the rest of the AFC all-division teams?


AFC East

QB: Tom Brady
RB1: Le'Sean McCoy
RB2: Lamar Miller
WR1: Brandon Marshall
WR2: Sammy Watkins
WR3: Eric Decker
TE1: Rob Gronkowski
TE2: Charles Clay
LT: D'Brickashaw Ferguson
LG: Cordy Glenn
C: Nick Mangold
RG: Mike Pouncey
RT: Nate Solder


AFC South

QB: Andrew Luck
RB1: Arian Foster
RB2: Frank Gore
WR1: T.Y. Hilton
WR2: DeAndre Hopkins
WR3: Andre Johnson
TE1: Julius Thomas
TE2: Delanie Walker
LT: Duane Brown
LG: Andy Levitre
C: Ben Jones
RG: Chance Warmack
RT: Gosder Cherilus


AFC West

QB: Peyton Manning
RB1: Jamaal Charles
RB2: Knile Davis
WR1: Demaryius Thomas
WR2: Keenan Allen
WR3: Jeremy Maclin
TE1: Antonio Gates
TE2: Travis Kelce
LT: Ryan Clady
LG: Gabe Jackson
C: Rodney Hudson
RG: Louis Vasquez
RT: Orlando Franklin

(05-13-2015, 03:27 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Sanu or Jones would have started for the Ravena quite easily.  

Over Jacoby as a 3rd and 4th? Sanu would but Jones might not beat out Marlon Brown.

(05-13-2015, 03:27 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I said that Torrey Smith would be the 4th WR on the bengals.   I never addressed them as a pair because we had Green.   Your now throwing in Steve Smith but honestly I would take both over him. He is too old.   Numbers are better because the Ravens have no one else to throw the ball.    

Sanu or Jones would have started for the Ravena quite easily.  

And the whole point of that discussion was the Ravens inability to recognize and draft WR talent.   Which seems to be Ozzie's kryptonite.

I mean Torrey Smith's alright he would probably fall anywhere between 2 and 4 here, but it would most definitely be a competition.

(05-13-2015, 03:54 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Over Jacoby as a 3rd and 4th? Sanu would but Jones might not beat out Marlon Brown.

Now your obviously not being serious.

Why waste time posting if your not going to use logic and common knowledge.

Cincy and Pitt have by far the best WR core in this division and it isn't even close. The only thing keeping the Ravens not worst is the Browns just being the browns and showing their inability to draft WR as well.

Both cincy and Pitts top 3 WR would start for both the Browns and Ravens. Offensive skill (WR/RB/te) position talent is overwhelmingly in their favor in the division.

(05-13-2015, 03:54 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Over Jacoby as a 3rd and 4th? Sanu would but Jones might not beat out Marlon Brown.

I think you may have that mixed up.

MLJ > Sanu. There was a reason the coaching staff started giving Marvin more playing time and Sanu less as 2013 went on.

(05-13-2015, 04:17 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I think you may have that mixed up.

MLJ > Sanu. There was a reason the coaching staff started giving Marvin more playing time and Sanu less as 2013 went on.

Yup. He is just being a hard head.

The Ravens have only had 1 WR worth talking about and that was Boldin.

(05-13-2015, 04:16 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Now your obviously not being serious.  

Why waste time posting if your not going to use logic and common knowledge.  

Cincy and Pitt have by far the best WR core in this division and it isn't even close.   The only thing keeping the Ravens not worst is the Browns just being the browns and showing their inability to draft WR as well.  

Both cincy and Pitts top 3 WR would start for both the Browns and Ravens.    Offensive skill (WR/RB/te) position talent is overwhelmingly in their favor in the division.

lol, we already had this conversation. I had stats and you had opinions. You can think that Sanu and Jones are better than either Smiths, but that won't ever make it true.

(05-13-2015, 04:17 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I think you may have that mixed up.

MLJ > Sanu. There was a reason the coaching staff started giving Marvin more playing time and Sanu less as 2013 went on.

Ok, then Jones is 3rd and Sanu can take Brown's job.

Both behind the Smiths (assuming this was last year).

Either way Perriman is better than both of them, so they're still #3 and #4 on the Ravens.

(05-13-2015, 04:20 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: lol, we already had this conversation. I had stats and you had opinions. You can think that Sanu and Jones are better than either Smiths, but that won't ever make it true.

Stats can't be used.... Your talking about 2/3 WR vs your top targets.

Green obviously gets the most targets. Just as Brown does in Pitt. Doesn't mean that the skill level for 2/3 on both teams isn't better than Torrey Smith.

When a 37 year old WR can come in and make you the number 2 wr ..... You can't start for Cincy.

(05-13-2015, 04:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Stats can't be used....   Your talking about 2/3 WR vs your top targets.  

Green obviously gets the most targets.   Just as Brown does in Pitt.  Doesn't mean that the skill level for 2/3 on both teams isn't better than Torrey Smith.  

When a 37 year old WR can come in and make you the number 2 wr ..... You can't start for Cincy.

LOL, so your argument is "Even though their overall and relative stats are worse as #2 and #3s, they're better than the guys whose stats are superior in every measurable way despite these other players having #1 and #2 defenders covering them because I think so".

HAHA

Also, Smith was 35 last season and is a future HOFer.

Andy Dalton would have been the 3rd QB behind Tyrod Taylor last season if he were on the Ravens.

You can't bring up stats, though, because Tyrod is a back up.

(05-13-2015, 04:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Also, Smith was 35 last season and is a future HOFer.

Now this is very debatable.

(05-13-2015, 04:52 PM)MrRager Wrote: Now this is very debatable.

And the reality is its not a debate of merit but rather politics. His numbers match HOFers from a generation ago, but with this generations, is 12k yards, 60+TDs enough?

Quarterback: Ben Roethlisberger

Running Back: Le'Veon Bell and Jeremy Hill (CIN))

Tight End: Heath Miller (PIT) and ?????

Wide Receivers: A.J. Green (CIN) Antonio Brown (PIT) and Steve Smith (BAL)

Tackles: Andrew Whitworth (CIN) and Ricky Wagner (BAL)

Guards: Joel Bitonio (CLV) and Marshal Yanda (BAL)

Center: Maurkice Pouncey (PIT)

(05-13-2015, 10:34 AM)djs7685 Wrote: This isn't the smack board, no need to over-exaggerate or flat out lie.

If you look at their careers, they're very similar. Green has more TDs. Their yardage totals are close even though Brown has an extra year (but he only played in about 10% of the team's snaps). Green has a higher YPC. Brown is more sure handed with less drops and a couple less fumbles. Brown is also a good punt returner which can't be ignored. The fact that Brown played an extra year but didn't start can be used both for him and against him. On one hand you could say "well he would have even better numbers if he was a starter year 1!", and someone else could say "he had a year to sit and learn when A.J. was forced to start!". Either way, they're very close statistically, and they're both VERY talented WRs.

To say one is clearly superior to the other is just being a homer. FWIW, I had Brown as WR1 in my original post on here and I'm a Bengals' fan. I think it could go either way, they're both immensely talented athletes.

I also wanted to add, let's not forget that the guy throwing the ball to them makes a pretty big difference. People love to talk shit on Andy (I also don't think he's a very good QB, he's not bad either though), and we all know that Ben Roethlisberger is the best QB in the division, so that has to come into the equation here if we want to talk about statistical comparisons. If you watch the 2 WRs in question play the game, you will know they're both top tier talents, but if you want to talk statistically only, you have to factor in the guy throwing the ball as well.

1st round draft picks are supposed to get playing time right away. 6th round draft picks have overachieved if they aren't sent to the practice squad after camp. Not to mention Brown simply had no opportunities as the 4th receiver - the veterans and high round picks got the bulk of the opportunities by default. Green was the the team's #1 the second the team in front of the Bengals in the draft announced their pick.

And at this point, Brown is just a flat out better receiver. He's a prototypical small, quick slot receiver who has managed to line up out wide and dominate every team's #1 corner the way a 6'4' 210 pound receiver is expected. And he's done it every single game (a minimum of 5 catches, 50 yards; averaged 7.5 and 100 respectively) for over 2 full seasons, a game or 2 shy of doubling the previous NFL record. He is literally unstoppable at this point. They haven't even been able to slow him down by playing 'bend but don't break.' He still gets his big plays and rakes in the TDs.

(05-13-2015, 05:03 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: And the reality is its not a debate of merit but rather politics. His numbers match HOFers from a generation ago, but with this generations, is 12k yards, 60+TDs enough?

I highly doubt it. I know he has a couple years left, but he is 14th in yards, 33rd in touchdowns, and 18th in receptions.

The big issue is he will be dealing with many other similar players like Calvin, Wayne, Johnson and Fitzgerald. He will probably also be battling with older guys that take awhile to get in like Holt, Bruce, and Ward. He obviously doesn't compare to some guys that played when he did like Harrison, Moss, and Owens.

He is also kind of a prick so I have no idea if he has rubbed some voters the wrong way.

It's a tough battle for modern WRs.