All AFCN Offense

[BmorePat87]

(05-13-2015, 06:52 PM)MrRager Wrote: I highly doubt it. I know he has a couple years left, but he is 14th in yards, 33rd in touchdowns, and 18th in receptions.

The big issue is he will be dealing with many other similar players like Calvin, Wayne, Johnson and Fitzgerald. He will probably also be battling with older guys that take awhile to get in like Holt, Bruce, and Ward. He obviously doesn't compare to some guys that played when he did like Harrison, Moss, and Owens.

He is also kind of a prick so I have no idea if he has rubbed some voters the wrong way.

It's a tough battle for modern WRs.

He has 1000+ more yards than Hines in the same time, but less TDs. This is also with a revolving door at Qb where Hines had Ben for most of his career.

Certainly HOF caliber, but, like you pointed out, there are a lot of other receivers who he'll be up against.

[MrRager]

(05-13-2015, 08:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He has 1000+ more yards than Hines in the same time, but less TDs. This is also with a revolving door at Qb where Hines had Ben for most of his career.

Certainly HOF caliber, but, like you pointed out, there are a lot of other receivers who he'll be up against.

I didn't mean to imply that Ward is a lock. I think the postseason success and being viewed as a great blocker gives him more visibility.

[djs7685]

(05-13-2015, 05:49 PM)6andcounting Wrote: 1st round draft picks are supposed to get playing time right away. 6th round draft picks have overachieved if they aren't sent to the practice squad after camp. Not to mention Brown simply had no opportunities as the 4th receiver - the veterans and high round picks got the bulk of the opportunities by default. Green was the the team's #1 the second the team in front of the Bengals in the draft announced their pick.

And at this point, Brown is just a flat out better receiver.  He's a prototypical small, quick slot receiver who has managed to line up out wide and dominate every team's #1 corner the way a 6'4' 210 pound receiver is expected. And he's done it every single game (a minimum of 5 catches, 50 yards; averaged 7.5 and 100 respectively) for over 2 full seasons, a game or 2 shy of doubling the previous NFL record. He is literally unstoppable at this point. They haven't even been able to slow him down by playing 'bend but don't break.' He still gets his big plays and rakes in the TDs.

You're really showing a bias here. I'm trying to look at this objectively, yet you just make excuses and cherrypick stats for Brown while ignoring what Green has accomplished in his career.

1. It's funny how you're pretty much trying to use Green being an NFL ready WR coming out of college against him while Brown having to sit and develop is a positive? In what world does that even remotely make sense? I'm not holding Brown being a 6th round pick against him, but you're just being ridiculous with this part of the argument.

2. Does being productive for a year or two make someone just a "flat out better X" at any position? Or do you get to pick and choose whenever only last year matters? Calvin Johnson has been battling injuries, but he's still clearly the best WR in the NFL if you actually watch football outside of Pittsburgh games. It's crazy when people think that stats are the only thing that matters, that shit is for casual fans. Nobody physically dominates and demands double and triple teams like Calvin does. Is Antonio Brown better than Calvin? Haha, I'd love to hear the rationale for that one. "Omg AB gets stats n stuff sometimes, so gud". I do realize that we're on a message board and that statistics are some of the only things that we have that are factual to argue with, but it would be crazy to say that AB > Calvin because of stats, and I really, really hope that even Steelers' fans understand that.

3. Let's not pretend that Brown didn't just learn how to catch touchdown passes about 2 years ago.

4. You bring up NFL records yet entirely ignore that A.J. has broken NFL records himself.

5. You said Antonio Brown is "literally unstoppable at this point". I'm 100% certain that you don't know what "literally" means.

Since you want to talk about stats so much, here are their statistics over a 4 year period. I'm not even going to use the time where AB sat on the bench and got to learn behind vets, I'm going to start with the year where he got a boatload of targets.

AB - 374 catches, 575 targets, 5,092 yards, 13.6 average per catch, 28 TDs, 3 fum/2 lost, 23 drops, 1 time 1st team AP, 1 time 2nd team AP, +being a good punter returner +catching passes from Roethlisberger

AJ - 329 catches, 576 targets, 4,874 yards, 14.8 average per catch, 35 TDs, 5 fum/3 lost, 30 drops, 2 time 2nd team AP, +catching passes from Dalton

I don't want to take anything away from Antonio Brown, he's an amazing talent and has definitely been a top 3 receiver if we're talking about 2013-2014 only. If you want to talk about careers, you're just a homer if you say that either Brown OR Green are "clearly better". Brown is very, very, very good, I have no problem admitting that. It seems that you have some bias against A.J. though, you won't give him the credit that he deserves. You brush all of his accomplishments aside while propping up AB for everything he does. I figure for as crappy as Steelers' fans think Andy is, they'd at least find A.J. to be an impressive talent for being able to compile the statistics that he has while being thrown to by a mediocre QB. I promise that it won't kill you to give one of our best players the credit he deserves. This isn't the smack board, it won't hurt you to be objective in this forum. The Steelers have some excellent players on their team and I'm not afraid to admit that. As I said earlier, for whatever it's worth, I put Bell and Brown above Hill and Green in my All-AFCN Offense. I don't think either of the WRs are "clearly better" than the other though.

[SteelCitySouth]

(05-13-2015, 03:27 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I said that Torrey Smith would be the 4th WR on the bengals.   I never addressed them as a pair because we had Green.   Your now throwing in Steve Smith but honestly I would take both over him. He is too old.   Numbers are better because the Ravens have no one else to throw the ball.    

Sanu or Jones would have started for the Ravena quite easily.  

And the whole point of that discussion was the Ravens inability to recognize and draft WR talent.   Which seems to be Ozzie's kryptonite.

Wait...Are you openly admitting that you are Woodley now?

[StLucieBengal]

(05-14-2015, 09:53 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Wait...Are you openly admitting that you are Woodley now?

Huh?

Why are you all so infatuated with that guy? Whoever he/she is has certainly got into enough heads .... It's comical really.

[SteelCitySouth]

(05-14-2015, 10:40 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Huh?

Why are you all so infatuated with that guy?  Whoever he/she is has certainly got into enough heads ....   It's comical really.

Never mind...I thought that was woodley in the other forum that was making that argument.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(05-14-2015, 11:28 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Never mind...I thought that was woodley in the other forum that was making that argument.

Why are we arguing about Brown and Green. They are the consensus starters. Also arguing about T. Smith is pointless because he's a 49er now.

It also seems like for the most part Steve Smith is a very common 3rd all conference receiver.

[Stormborn]

Glad to see Whit get love over Joe Thomas.

At least some people love him.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-13-2015, 05:49 PM)6andcounting Wrote: 1st round draft picks are supposed to get playing time right away. 6th round draft picks have overachieved if they aren't sent to the practice squad after camp. Not to mention Brown simply had no opportunities as the 4th receiver - the veterans and high round picks got the bulk of the opportunities by default. Green was the the team's #1 the second the team in front of the Bengals in the draft announced their pick.

And at this point, Brown is just a flat out better receiver. He's a prototypical small, quick slot receiver who has managed to line up out wide and dominate every team's #1 corner the way a 6'4' 210 pound receiver is expected. And he's done it every single game (a minimum of 5 catches, 50 yards; averaged 7.5 and 100 respectively) for over 2 full seasons, a game or 2 shy of doubling the previous NFL record. He is literally unstoppable at this point. They haven't even been able to slow him down by playing 'bend but don't break.' He still gets his big plays and rakes in the TDs.

While I basically agree with what you're saying you still have to consider that AJ has a very average QB throwing him the ball ! Brown has a future HOFer !

[CincyProduct]

(05-13-2015, 12:09 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Brown is a superior WR to Green, he just flat out produces.  I'd also say that Pouncey is a better C than Mack, especially after last year.  If the Steeler O-line can just grow a bit they'd have the best offense in the league, much less the AFN North.

I wonder how AJ would look with a mean push-off game....

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-18-2015, 07:23 PM)CincyProduct Wrote: I wonder how AJ would look with a mean push-off game....

Yeah, because Green never pushes off.

[J24]

Qb-Big Ben
RB-Leveon Bell
RB2-Jermey Hill
TE- Heath Miller
TE2- Dennis Pitta( if @ 100%)
WR1-Antino Brown
WR2-Aj Green
WR3-Steve Smith
OT- Whitworth
LG-Joel Bitino
C-Alex Mack
RG-Marshal Yanda
RT-Andre Smith

[TSwigZ]

QB Ben
HB Bell
HB2 Hill
WR Green
WR2 Brown
WR3 Smith Sr
TE Miller
T Whit, Thomas
G Yanda Osemele
C Mack

[TGISunday]

(05-13-2015, 05:18 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Quarterback: Ben Roethlisberger

Running Back: Le'Veon Bell and Jeremy Hill (CIN))

Tight End: Heath Miller (PIT) and ?????

Wide Receivers: A.J. Green (CIN) Antonio Brown (PIT) and Steve Smith (BAL)

Tackles: Andrew Whitworth (CIN) and Ricky Wagner (BAL)

Guards: Joel Bitonio (CLV) and Marshal Yanda (BAL)

Center: Maurkice Pouncey (PIT)

This.

Might say Mack over Pouncey, but that's nitpicking.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-01-2015, 11:21 AM)TSwigZ Wrote: QB Ben
HB Bell
HB2 Hill
WR Green
WR2 Brown
WR3 Smith Sr
TE Miller
T Whit, Thomas
G Yanda Osemele
C Mack

Uh, hey, you've got 2 LTs on your team.  Didn't you read the OP?  Pick a LT and a RT...  In other words, you must pick between Whit and Thomas to play LT.

[jmccracky]

I am so happy that Whit is getting a lot of love. He is so underrated.

[wolfkaosaun]

(05-13-2015, 10:24 AM)6andcounting Wrote: Catches: Brown
TDs: Brown
Yards: Brown
Less fumbles: Brown (despite many more touches)
Taller: Green

Great consolation prize on Green.  

Are you talking about last year? Or altogether?

Because Brown played in 10 more games. But Green is only less than 400 yards behind Brown, has more TDs than Brown(35 to 28), lost 1 more fumble than Brown, and has 61 less receptions than Brown.

Green averages 14.8 yards per catch, Brown averages 13.5.
Green averages 81.2 yards a game, Brown averages 75.1.

Also, technically, Brown has lost 8 fumbles. Green lost 7. So technically Green and Brown are 2-2 in the categories you mentioned. Well, 3-2 since you wanted to include height.

[CJD]

(05-12-2015, 08:39 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Solid list ....  I would only disagree with Bowe.... I think Sanu is better ... And probably jones as well.... So is Smith but there is no way he gets better a year older.   The Browns and Ravens are thin at WR.  

Could also make a realistic Argument of Zeitler or DeCastro over Bitonio.

Somebody is showing their homerism haha.

[wolfkaosaun]

(06-16-2015, 10:28 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Somebody is showing their homerism haha.

Bowe vs. Sanu/Jones is certainly and interesting take.

Bowe hasn't had a 1,000 yard season in 4 years. Only has 8 touchdowns his past 3 years. 13 touchdowns in his past 14.

Bowe has been slacking as of lately. But Steve Smith has been a beast. Has over 1,000 yards 3 of his last 4 years and 21 touchdowns. He's still playing at a high level, there's no doubt about that. I'd take Steve Smith over Dwayne Bowe any day.

[djs7685]

(06-17-2015, 04:28 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Bowe vs. Sanu/Jones is certainly and interesting take.

Bowe hasn't had a 1,000 yard season in 4 years. Only has 8 touchdowns his past 3 years. 13 touchdowns in his past 14.

Bowe has been slacking as of lately. But Steve Smith has been a beast. Has over 1,000 yards 3 of his last 4 years and 21 touchdowns. He's still playing at a high level, there's no doubt about that. I'd take Steve Smith over Dwayne Bowe any day.

Bowe also played on the same team as a guy that didn't throw passes to his WRs, especially when they were anywhere near an endzone.

Bowe gets plenty of separation and is a fine receiver, he's actually pretty damn good. Put him with a good QB and he's a legitimate #1 and amazing #2 receiver.

Sanu shouldn't be mentioned in any "All AFCN team" unless you're going up to like 8 WRs on the roster. MLJ could be in these discussions in the near future, but he needs to stay healthy and show everyone why he deserves to be considered a good WR. A lot of people outside of Cincinnati just haven't seen him play, but the kid is really good. As with Sanu though, I can't put MLJ on the "All AFCN team" when there are other options in the division that have proven their worth and put it on the field already.