(02-04-2023, 02:32 PM)Synric Wrote: Well you don't draft position groups but if I had to throw one out there it would be Tight End because the only one signed is Asasi. PFF is telling me Hayden Hurst is gonna be 3 years 28.5mil (9.5mil per year) no thank you.

This is too deep a TE class to spend a 1st on one and it is not a value position, IMHO.  

I can only see a couple scenarios that I dont go offensive tackle.

Missing link in our offense, him or Washiington GA both great
blockers and mismatches I'm all in if available

(02-04-2023, 01:13 PM)casear2727 Wrote: So, if Wright is on our board at 35, you take which position group ahead of him at 28?

Position group isn't relevant to me.  I take the hands best player on the board (provided he's got a much better grade than the guy at a similar position of need).

I'd have to see who is available, but I could make a case for OT, TE, WR, DT, DE, CB, S.

(02-04-2023, 09:43 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This is too deep a TE class to spend a 1st on one and it is not a value position, IMHO.  

I can only see a couple scenarios that I dont go offensive tackle.

And that strategy has burned this team over the years.  It lead to picks like Ogbuehi and Fisher.

All that being said, I do tend to agree that the best player available will more than likely be a RT.

(02-06-2023, 11:50 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Position group isn't relevant to me.  I take the hands best player on the board (provided he's got a much better grade than the guy at a similar position of need).

I'd have to see who is available, but I could make a case for OT, TE, WR, DT, DE, CB, S.

This draft, tackle is extremely relevant to me as it is the position that is preventing us from a Super Bowl.  I can make a similar argument against those position groups. If a potential starting tackle is within 10 slots of the current BPA at those groups it would be very difficult for me to choose one over a starting tackle with the following exceptions:

A guy who would be WR 4, unless he is named Johnston, Addison, Boutte

A position with little value that will cost us money later during the 5th year extension such as TE, unless he is named Washington or Meyer.

A position with little value that will cost us money later during the 5th year extension such as RB, unless he is named Robinson or Gibbs (still wouldn't be thrilled).

A guy at DT with Reader, Hill, Carter, Tufele and possibly Tupoe already manning 2 spots.

A DE not name Ojulari (top 3 wont be there), while we have Hubbard, Trey, Ossai and Sample (and yes I agree we need more pass rush but there are several good edge guys this year.

CB is tough as it is such a highly valued position and we have no idea how Awuzie will recover.  But these are the guys I could be ok with prior to tackle; Smith. Gonzales, Witherspoon, Porter (ugh), Ringo, Stevenson, Ricks - trusting Lou on this.

S value will be determined based upon us signing Bell or another vet, if we do I do not want to see a safety taken before a starting tackle not named Branch, maybe Johnson or Battle.  If do not sign Bell or another vet we need to add Robinson and Skinner to the list.

(02-06-2023, 11:52 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: And that strategy has burned this team over the years.  It lead to picks like Ogbuehi and Fisher.

All that being said, I do tend to agree that the best player available will more than likely be a RT.

I'll push back a little here, Ogbuehi's stock dropped him to 2nd round at best with his ACL, guys like Humphries were ranked higher, he was a risk from the beginning.

Fisher was not a bad pick late in the 2nd.  He was a left tackle and we played the guy at H back, then moved him to center, then to right tackle which he started half the season before the heart issue and when he came back he injured his back.

The sad thing is we are terrible at evaluating oline and we cannot afford 5 guys that are all FA's.  We must hit on some starters in the draft moving forward, which in my mind is reaching a few picks up and taking a guy like Wright to start at RT over a BPA at another spot.

I'll just say this. If the Bengals don't fix the line in FA, and they draft a TE in rd 1, i'll be at Paycor with a torch and a pitchfork. 

(02-06-2023, 03:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'll just say this. If the Bengals don't fix the line in FA, and they draft a TE in rd 1, i'll be at Paycor with a torch and a pitchfork. 

Hoping they sign a few free agents with experience because I want the best to protect Burrow and this organization sucks and drafting and developing offensive linemen, especially early.

ESPN's latest mock draft has Mayer falling to us!

Quote:Michael Mayer, TE, Notre Dame

The first of a loaded tight end group comes off the board as the Bengals look to develop an inside passing game to complement the outside talent assembled in Cincinnati. Mayer is a throwback tight end who reminds me of T.J. Hockenson, showcasing an in-line blocking game and terrific seam game as a receiver. Mayer, who is 6-5, 235 pounds, had 67 catches for nine touchdowns in 2022 while playing in an offense without an established quarterback. And while he doesn't have elite speed or positional versatility, the top-ranked tight end in the class is a tremendous value at this spot, especially with Hayden Hurst hitting free agency.

He put up those numbers without having an established quarterback, so imagine what he'll do with Burrow and a receiver like Chase (and Higgins and Boyd) drawing coverage off of him!

(02-06-2023, 05:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hoping they sign a few free agents with experience because I want the best to protect Burrow and this organization sucks and drafting and developing offensive linemen, especially early.

ESPN's latest mock draft has Mayer falling to us!


He put up those numbers without having an established quarterback, so imagine what he'll do with Burrow and a receiver like Chase (and Higgins and Boyd) drawing coverage off of him!

Not to burst your bubble Brad but Payne Durham (my draft crush this year) put up similar numbers against the same or better competition. Durham is a projected 3/4 so would give us better opportunities to improve the OL.

(02-06-2023, 05:58 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Not to burst your bubble Brad but Payne Durham (my draft crush this year) put up similar numbers against the same or better competition. Durham is a projected 3/4 so would give us better opportunities to improve the OL.

Durham is good but Mayer is Baby Gronk and is on another level.

(02-06-2023, 06:11 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Durham is good but Mayer is Baby Gronk and is on another level.

Even if Mayer is on that level, what OT would be available in 3 you'd feel confident protecting the franchise?

Thats my argument. Wright and Durham vs Mayer and ???

IMO, this is a very top heavy OL class but deep CB/Edge/TE class. Value is shoring up the line (and like has been mentioned earlier, can't depend entirely on FA) and getting the slightly lower TE target later.

(02-06-2023, 06:26 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Even if Mayer is on that level, what OT would be available in 3 you'd feel confident protecting the franchise?

Thats my argument. Wright and Durham vs Mayer and ???

IMO, this is a very top heavy OL class but deep CB/Edge/TE class. Value is shoring up the line (and like has been mentioned earlier, can't depend entirely on FA) and getting the slightly lower TE target later.

We struggle with drafting and developing offensive linemen early.

Sign a free agent to get a game changer in Mayer and to get a sure thing to protect Burrow in free agency.

Trade Boyd or Higgins if you have to (I'd like to keep Higgins but will he be too expensive?). 

(02-06-2023, 07:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: We struggle with drafting and developing offensive linemen early.

Sign a free agent to get a game changer in Mayer and to get a sure thing to protect Burrow in free agency.

Trade Boyd or Higgins if you have to (I'd like to keep Higgins but will he be too expensive?). 

Quote: "can't depend entirely on FA"

Also, trading Boyd or Higgins (especially Higgins) for Mayer is a huge down grade and you know it.

(02-06-2023, 07:50 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Quote: "can't depend entirely on FA"

Also, trading Boyd or Higgins (especially Higgins) for Mayer is a huge down grade and you know it.

Trading Higgins or Boyd for a guy that's being compared to Gronkowski is a huge downgrade?

Please explain that one to me.

(02-06-2023, 11:50 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Position group isn't relevant to me.  I take the hands best player on the board (provided he's got a much better grade than the guy at a similar position of need).

I'd have to see who is available, but I could make a case for OT, TE, WR, DT, DE, CB, S.

Bengals are about to have some big money occupied by Burrow, Chase, and company.
So it becomes critical to find upgrades on cheaper contracts via FA and/or draft picks.
As such, the Bengals need to get guys in the draft who can contribute as much as possible on rookie deals.
So I like to target guys in the early rounds who either have a spot to start as rookies or have a vet in front of them that will be potentially departing in FA after a year or so.

Luckily, this is the case in quite a few positions for the Bengals:
- WR (Higgins and/or Boyd)
- RB (Mixon)
- OT (Williams, Collins?)
- TE (Hurst)
- DE (Hendrickson)
- DT (Reader)
- LB (Pratt, Wilson)
- CB (Awuzie)
- Safety (Bates/Bell - I expect Hill will take one of the spots)

FA this March will knock some of these positions off the list, more easily showing where the Bengals might address the early rounds of the draft.

(02-06-2023, 07:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Trading Higgins or Boyd for a guy that's being compared to Gronkowski is a huge downgrade?

Please explain that one to me.

Higgins is a WR1 on most teams. Does well what a TE usually does, high points the ball. Higgins has half as many 1000 yard seasons as Gronk in 1/3 the years. 

Boyd (as a 2nd/3rd target most of his career) has 5 800+ yard seasons. Gronk has 6.

Literally the only stat I can see where Gronk is better consistently is TDs. And Gronk was the primary target in those years.

Give me Higgins (and to a lesser extent Boyd) for the O we run. Our O (while could adjust and I assume would have if we had went Pitts over JC) is stronger with WRs. Its likely a reason we went with Irwin to replace Chase over Wilcox in 2TE sets.

Now, don't take this as I think your idea is bad, I just think its better to hit multiple weaknesses than getting the hometown kid just because he's the hometown kid and a Bengals fan.

(02-06-2023, 08:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals are about to have some big money occupied by Burrow, Chase, and company.
So it becomes critical to find upgrades on cheaper contracts via FA and/or draft picks.
As such, the Bengals need to get guys in the draft who can contribute as much as possible on rookie deals.
So I like to target guys in the early rounds who either have a spot to start as rookies or have a vet in front of them that will be potentially departing in FA after a year or so.

Luckily, this is the case in quite a few positions for the Bengals:
- WR (Higgins and/or Boyd)
- RB (Mixon)
- OT (Williams, Collins?)
- TE (Hurst)
- DE (Hendrickson)
- DT (Reader)
- LB (Pratt, Wilson)
- CB (Awuzie)
- Safety (Bates/Bell - I expect Hill will take one of the spots)

FA this March will knock some of these positions off the list, more easily showing where the Bengals might address the early rounds of the draft.

Luckily, we already have depth pieces for LB and Edge (ADG and Ossai) so they aren't absolute musts this draft. 

Bad top end WR talent means we may get depth players we like.

It's feeling like this draft is just imperative we get OL, DT (some nice NTs here), TE and RB (only if we cut Mixon or don't bring back Perine). If we can fill other spots, good. If not, we will revisit those spots in 2024. Hell, maybe we get another Chido/Bell in FA for lower than we expect.

(02-06-2023, 07:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Trading Higgins or Boyd for a guy that's being compared to Gronkowski is a huge downgrade?

Please explain that one to me.

Because being compared to someone doesn't mean shit. Do you know how many TEs have been compared to Gronk?  Like every Draft TE1 the last 5 years.

(02-07-2023, 02:15 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Because being compared to someone doesn't mean shit. Do you know how many TEs have been compared to Gronk?  Like every Draft TE1 the last 5 years.

I don't remember any other tight ends being compared to Gronk. Not doubting you but can you show me a few?

He's the first Norte Dame tight end to be a consensus All-American since 1977.

He's the real deal.

(02-07-2023, 04:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I don't remember any other tight ends being compared to Gronk. Not doubting you but can you show me a few?

He's the first Norte Dame tight end to be a consensus All-American since 1977.

He's the real deal.

And Bowers is the real deal next year and McBride was the real deal last year. I like Meyer but TE is rarely an instant impact player and our offense doesn’t prioritize the position (I wish they would a little more).