(02-06-2023, 11:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If this organization manages to find a way to win 0 SBs with Burrow I think everyone is going to declare the franchise to be the problem. 

Relax John Elway didn’t win a Super Bowl until 38. Dan Marino never did with Don Shula. Jim Kelly 0

(02-07-2023, 12:42 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Relax John Elway didn’t win a Super Bowl until 38. Dan Marino or Jim Kelly never did with Don Shula.

I think Tom Brady broke people's brains and their expectations of what being successful means. Just like Jordan did to the NBA. Unless you win 6 without losing you suck. 

Winning 0 SBs will certainly be a disappointment for all but up to this point in his career Burrow has been just as big of a problem in not already accomplishing that feat as anyone. 

I think Jordan comparing Carson's and Burrow's mental toughness and saying they're similar is laughable.

Palmer still looks scared of that oncoming rusher, whereas I watched burrow in that first season take sack after sack, watched the team play miserably and still he was lights out good and never acted beat or looked down. I just hoped we wouldn't destroy him, but he came back from injury even better and carried the franchise.

In contrast, we saw Carson progressively disappear, he played meak, and then he asked for a trade. I don't care whether he's right about brown or not, I think Brown is crap too. But Palmer had everything you want in a qb, and a better arm than burrow, and yet he never won anything. I think his mental fragility was the biggest factor. At one point Jordan without any irony used a pinky finger injury as evidence of Carson's toughness. Another time he apparently had a sore shoulder.

Not a bad QB, but those two nodding about how comparable burrow and palmer are on mental toughness makes them look like chumps who don't know much about football.

(02-07-2023, 01:10 AM)TheFan Wrote: I think Tom Brady broke people's brains and their expectations of what being successful means. Just like Jordan did to the NBA. Unless you win 6 without losing you suck. 

Winning 0 SBs will certainly be a disappointment for all but up to this point in his career Burrow has been just as big of a problem in not already accomplishing that feat as anyone. 

Yep, even Aaron Rodgers who at one point in time was being called the best talent in QB history until Mahomes, only has 1 ring and that was as a wildcard.

(02-06-2023, 11:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If this organization manages to find a way to win 0 SBs with Burrow I think everyone is going to declare the franchise to be the problem. 

Well then, we'll settle this take in about 10 to 15 years. See you in 2033 to 2038. 

(02-06-2023, 11:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If this organization manages to find a way to win 0 SBs with Burrow I think everyone is going to declare the franchise to be the problem. 

Winning Super Bowls is extremely difficult. I'd be disappointed, for sure, but we live in the age of Mahomes. It's kind of like how so many QBs were likely denied Super Bowls because they played in the age of Brady.

"if I had to trade lives with somebody, it would probably be Joe Burrow" - Tyreek Hill pic.twitter.com/XHZFgcyeuv

— Joe Burrow Fan Club (@JoeyBClub) February 6, 2023

(02-07-2023, 01:10 AM)TheFan Wrote: I think Tom Brady broke people's brains and their expectations of what being successful means. Just like Jordan did to the NBA. Unless you win 6 without losing you suck. 

Winning 0 SBs will certainly be a disappointment for all but up to this point in his career Burrow has been just as big of a problem in not already accomplishing that feat as anyone.

Bullshit.

In his 2 playoff losses Burrow has been sacked a total of 12 times. No QB is winning a Super Bowl like that.

(02-07-2023, 10:55 AM)Synric Wrote:

"if I had to trade lives with somebody, it would probably be Joe Burrow" - Tyreek Hill pic.twitter.com/XHZFgcyeuv

— Joe Burrow Fan Club (@JoeyBClub) February 6, 2023

Me too.   Well maybe Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos so I could buy the Bengals.  But if I wanted to be a lot younger and make a ton of money playing football I think Burrow would be a great choice.  He'd certainly get the short end of the stick in that trade though.  

(02-07-2023, 10:33 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Winning Super Bowls is extremely difficult. I'd be disappointed, for sure, but we live in the age of Mahomes. It's kind of like how so many QBs were likely denied Super Bowls because they played in the age of Brady.

You meant the "age of cheating".

(02-07-2023, 12:43 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: You meant the "age of cheating".

I think the Patriots scandals largely overshadowed Brady's dominance. I am fairly certain he'd be approximately as dominant with or without the cheating. After all, it's not like he suddenly became bad once the whole Deflategate scandal was addressed.

(02-07-2023, 11:53 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bullshit.

In his 2 playoff losses Burrow has been sacked a total of 12 times. No QB is winning a Super Bowl like that.

That's what is interesting about any threads that involve Carson Palmer.  12 years ago he wanted out of here, and here we are in 2023 talking about how Burrow can't win here and that he would have a SB ring if he were on the Chiefs or Eagles, etc.

That's just the way it is.  This organization probably needs to fix this stuff, because if the Burrow era gets us 0 SBs that's the biggest botch this oft-maligned organization will ever have, I think.

The Eagles were a franchise that never got it done, but they're looking at a possible second SB in 5 years with new coaches and QB.  They aren't the type of franchise normally brought up when people would say "Great QB X would have won it all if only he'd have been drafted by Philly!"

Again, it's not just you...but it is interesting a thread that involves Palmer has some "No QB is winning in this situation" threads in it, and I'm with you...this wasn't "as much" on Burrow.  The clock is ticking.

The fact that Mahomes did it this year without Tyreek ends the argument for me and their is no other QB I want over Burrow though being objective Mahomes has him crushed and its not close. Burrow is slam dunk number 2 IMO though.

(02-05-2023, 06:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He's certainly top-2.

Have a hard time putting him in front of a guy who is only a year older yet has hosted 5 AFC Championships, gone to 3 SBs, won 1 (potentially 2) SB(s), and is a 2x MVP.

Yeah, I would rather have Burrow, but right now Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL. Burrow will be tops though, soon enough.

(02-06-2023, 12:36 PM)casear2727 Wrote: He didnt say the Bengals would ruin Joe and Carson was absolutely correct in his assessment based upon his time in Cincy.  Brown lied to the guy and did not provide what he said he would to take the team to the next level.  This recency bias that MB was great and that Carson was simply some malcontent is comical.

Brown was the worst owner in professional sports, not the NFL, professional sports.  Articles were written about this, fans paid for planes to fly over the stadium during games with signs bashing Brown, anyone that has been a fan through the 90's and early 2000's knows this. Those of us who were fans in the late 70's and the 80's really felt the pain watching Brown not just take us backwards but humiliatingly bury us. 

Where did I say MB was great?? Not really necessary to tell me about the 90’s and early 2000’s as I had season tickets from 1995 to 2010. Pretty sure I saw it.

The fact is the Bengals DID surround Palmer with talent. He had one of the best WR duos in the league in Chad and TJ. The running game was good. The sunk money and draft picks into the offensive line. He had a TE in Jermaine Gresham who was a first round pick. Carson didn’t live up to the expectations here.

Fast forward to 2020 and he’s been gone for 10 years and he has knowledge of the inner workings of the front office when he hasn’t been there in 10 years? He had no clue. Then even after the Bengals dumped a TON of money in the free agent market for the 2021 season and made the Super Bowl, Carson was still questioning whether or not Burrow should re-sign with the Bengals after his rookie contract. It was an tired, worn out narrative he kept trying to force. Guy is a clown.

(02-07-2023, 04:02 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Where did I say MB was great?? Not really necessary to tell me about the 90’s and early 2000’s as I had season tickets from 1995 to 2010. Pretty sure I saw it.

The fact is the Bengals DID surround Palmer with talent. He had one of the best WR duos in the league in Chad and TJ. The running game was good. The sunk money and draft picks into the offensive line. He had a TE in Jermaine Gresham who was a first round pick. Carson didn’t live up to the expectations here.

Fast forward to 2020 and he’s been gone for 10 years and he has knowledge of the inner workings of the front office when he hasn’t been there in 10 years? He had no clue. Then even after the Bengals dumped a TON of money in the free agent market for the 2021 season and made the Super Bowl, Carson was still questioning whether or not Burrow should re-sign with the Bengals after his rookie contract. It was an tired, worn out narrative he kept trying to force. Guy is a clown.

There is a long list of things that MB didn’t do when Carson was here and a few he shouldn’t have.

We still didn’t have an outdoor facility at the time and saying Brown surrounded Carson with great players via the drafty is silly, every team drafts players, he was an abysmal failure in FA at the time.

(02-07-2023, 04:26 PM)casear2727 Wrote: There is a long list of things that MB didn’t do when Carson was here and a few he shouldn’t have.

We still didn’t have an outdoor facility at the time and saying Brown surrounded Carson with great players via the drafty is silly, every team drafts players, he was an abysmal failure in FA at the time.

You do understand that after you draft them you have to ante up and sign them to extensions beyond their rookie contracts, right?

(02-07-2023, 05:09 PM)Fullrock Wrote: You do understand that after you draft them you have to ante up and sign them to extensions beyond their rookie contracts, right?

Remind me again of the playoff wins we had after all that coaching up and extensions we did....

The fact remains that Brown ran the Bengals like a poverty operation, everything from charging players for towels to coach seats for potential 330 pound NG free agents.  Things are better now but I'm not mad that Carson wanted us to be competitive with our teams or at least on par with the worst teams.  NO FAs wanted to come here for good reason.  Any supposed season ticket holder should know this.

(02-07-2023, 01:00 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That's what is interesting about any threads that involve Carson Palmer.  12 years ago he wanted out of here, and here we are in 2023 talking about how Burrow can't win here and that he would have a SB ring if he were on the Chiefs or Eagles, etc.

That's just the way it is.  This organization probably needs to fix this stuff, because if the Burrow era gets us 0 SBs that's the biggest botch this oft-maligned organization will ever have, I think.

The Eagles were a franchise that never got it done, but they're looking at a possible second SB in 5 years with new coaches and QB.  They aren't the type of franchise normally brought up when people would say "Great QB X would have won it all if only he'd have been drafted by Philly!"

Again, it's not just you...but it is interesting a thread that involves Palmer has some "No QB is winning in this situation" threads in it, and I'm with you...this wasn't "as much" on Burrow.  The clock is ticking.

Tbf this year was due to just terrible luck having a rash of injuries to the OL. Just like I said no QB is winning like that, well no team is winning a championship like that either. It’s truly amazing we even won the divisional round with 3 starters out. I think that actually reflects pretty positively towards the team as a whole.

(02-07-2023, 01:32 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: The fact that Mahomes did it this year without Tyreek ends the argument for me and their is no other QB I want over Burrow though being objective Mahomes has him crushed and its not close. Burrow is slam dunk number 2 IMO though.

I feel like whenever people say “it’s not even close” in sports discussions it’s actually always - in fact - pretty close.