(12-20-2015, 06:54 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Dalton has never had a losing season here.  Can't say that for Palmer.  Palmer also has no playoff wins, but nobody brings that up.  

True ...as for the never having a losing season Palmer, Anderson or Boomer with the Bengals can't say that. As for QB's of other teams neither can Elway, Farve, Montana, Mainning, Marino, Aikman....and so on and so on. So to your point when Dalton has a losing season because he maybe on a bad team what hapoens to your stat then?

Dalton is good. He is (was or had) having a great season this year. He has done a great job in his role on this team. Take this year for instance...many on here keep saying an MVP year. He has not been in the MVP discussion past week 8 by anyone seriously discussing the topic. However in years past his stats this year may have won the award. The league (with all the rule changes) has changed over the past 4 seasons and is changing dramatically
As more offensive slanted rules are in place.

I kinda stopped reading this thread when people starting posting negative scouting reports about mccarron and positive ones on Dalton as though you cant find really good ones and bad ones on both. Lmao It's funny peoples blind love for someone. I'll be sure to visit this thread at around 7:30 or so to tell you told ya so and then all the Dalton lovers will be mad that we won and say it's because San Fran sucks. Lmao

(12-20-2015, 11:45 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: I kinda stopped reading this thread when people starting posting negative scouting reports about mccarron and positive ones on Dalton as though you cant find really good ones and bad ones on both. Lmao It's funny peoples blind love for someone. I'll be sure to visit this thread at around 7:30 or so to tell you told ya so and then all the Dalton lovers will be mad that we won and say it's because San Fran sucks. Lmao

Most of the being negative,are the ones who have came out since Dalton went down. Everyone or most are hoping AJM,does succeed. Most of them are trying to make it out to be a controversy, their will be no controversy. This is Daltons team, can't we all be satisfied with a good quality qb and back up?

(12-20-2015, 11:45 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: I kinda stopped reading this thread when people starting posting negative scouting reports about mccarron and positive ones on Dalton as though you cant find really good ones and bad ones on both. Lmao It's funny peoples blind love for someone. I'll be sure to visit this thread at around 7:30 or so to tell you told ya so and then all the Dalton lovers will be mad that we won and say it's because San Fran sucks. Lmao

San Fran does suck though....

(12-20-2015, 11:29 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: True ...as for the never having a losing season Palmer, Anderson or Boomer with the Bengals can't say that. As for QB's of other teams neither can Elway, Farve, Montana, Mainning, Marino, Aikman....and so on and so on. So to your point when Dalton has a losing season because he maybe on a bad team what hapoens to your stat then?

Dalton is good. He is (was or had) having a great season this year. He has done a great job in his role on this team. Take this year for instance...many on here keep saying an MVP year. He has not been in the MVP discussion past week 8 by anyone seriously discussing the topic. However in years past his stats this year may have won the award. The league (with all the rule changes) has changed over the past 4 seasons and is changing dramatically
As more offensive slanted rules are in place.

CBS from after week 12:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25399075/nfl-mvp-projection-can-adrian-peterson-make-it-a-3-horse-race

Sports Illustrated's MMQB after Dalton's thumb injury still had Dalton in 4th place: 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/12/14/andy-dalton-thumb-injury-panthers-perfect-week-14-nfl

There were many others, but considering that these are 2 of the most respected outlets out there, it should suffice.  Stop making stuff up.

My bold prediction is that someday anyone who prefaces any prediction with the word bold will be slapped daily and twice on Sundays unless it's actually and truly bold.
To qualify to be bold the predictor should have to stand on the edge of a bridge on a very thin 3/64ths thick piece of plywood in the snow during 40 knot winds while there are tornado warnings as temperatures plummet to below zero. Anything short of that simply is not bold.

I'm going out on a limb here and going to assume the OP was indeed standing on the edge of a bridge on a very thin 3/64ths thick piece of plywood in the snow during 40 knot winds while there were tornado warnings as temperatures plummeted to below zero. I could be wrong though.

(12-20-2015, 03:16 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: 1. Hmmm...you really don't believe that arguement do you? Lol.
We can name a ton of Great QB's who paved the way for lesser 
talent to benefit from. Dalton has taken advantage of his situation. Good for him,
he is not a QB that elevates the talent around him. He falters under the big stage and against top teams. He has more wins, stats, and accolades thus far than Newton too...guess he is better than Cam also? 

The stats that some around here are so impressed with are being surpassed rather quickly 
by the young QB's who also started from day one. Dalton, Manning, and Flacco are the only QB's to start thier first 81 games. That is a great testament to their ability to stay in the game. Tough, smart, and game savvy describes all three of them. Those "in their first 5 year" stats are not that impressive because ALL the other QB's did not play as many games. You know why no one here talks about those "in their first year", "2nd year", "3rd year" and "4th year stats"anymore...because most of them now belong to guys named Wilson, Luck, Kaepernick and Tannehill. Soon to belong to guys named Carr, Mariota and Winston. The game has changed and the stats are not really comps. 2.  For instance when Palmer broke the franchise record for TD's he was in the Top of the league for TD passes. When Dalton did it he was not in the top 12. See how that works?
 
3.Palmer can and has changed the culture of teams...the Bengals included. This team had not been in the playoffs for 15 years prior to Palmer. When Dalton got here they had been in the Playoffs Two out of 5 years. Winning the division twice and sweeping it once. Huge difference...but you know this.

4. If Dalton can get his job back then maybe he can continue on with this great season he was having. He was having a great season.  5. I am one who believes AJM will have very comparable stats to Dalton's the rest of this year...that's because this team does not need a great QB. 

6. How many real NFL talent evaluators would say that Dalton is comparable to Palmer? None.
Granted they are diffent ages so if that is going to frame your arguement that is the strongest stance to a weak point. If it is only age then you would say the same about Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Ken Anderson, Boomer and any other previous QB who no longer youth on thier side. Even at 36 Palmer is out playing Dalton. He can do things Dalton can not...period. Prime to prime comparisons are not even a remote question. 

Cue the "quitter" and "pre-Madonna" arguments...lol

Why would I need to change the subject when I can easily pick this post apart?

1. Name some examples. Palmer didn't "pave the way" to anything but a hard time for Dalton. He left him a 4-12 team in a state of chaos from Carson's sudden departure. Thanks, I guess? 

2. Dalton actually finished 3rd in TD passes when he broke the franchise record. Making stuff up seems to be a theme with you. 

3. The consensus is that Marv changed the culture. Only a CP fanboy would claim it was Carson. You can twist it to make it sound worse, but Carson didn't take over a 90's team. He took over an 8-8 squad that barely missed the playoffs with Jon Kitna at QB. The culture change was already in full effect when CP took over. 

BTW, I guess Palmer's culture changing prowess was on vacation in Oakland, eh? 

4. Lol. "If". 

5. I'm going to bookmark this for later. McCarron won't touch Dalton's 106.3 rating.

6. Link? Truth is, you have no idea what talent evaluators would say as of now. Palmer was a first overall pick, whereas Dalton was a 2nd round choice. Jamarcus Russell was a first overall pick while Drew Brees was a 2nd rounder. Leaf was a 2nd overall pick, whereas Brady was a 6th rounder. Point is, talent evaluators aren't always right. Palmer has better physical tools than Brady. Is he better? Nope. Palmer has a better arm than most QBs, including Dalton. That said, Palmer has always been prone to some real head scratching throws. He's also never had the brains to master an offense. He STILL uses a cheat sheet. Dalton is better with pre-snap adjustments and more athletic. Accuracy is good for both. 

Palmer (like Dalton) is having an incredible season. It seems like that has made people forget about how mediocre  Palmer has been in all but 2 seasons (2005 & 2015). He's thrown 20+ INTs three times and has a higher career INT rate than Dalton. He fumbles more often than Dalton.

To sum it up, you ignore Palmer's failures and credit Dalton's success to Palmer. Seems legit. Nevermind that Palmer never attained this level of success here himself in 8 years, and he left the team in worse shape (4-12) than when he got it (8-8). Your only other argument is "talent evaluators" and you honestly have no clue what they'd say. In other words, you have nothing.

(12-20-2015, 03:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Why would I need to change the subject when I can easily pick this post apart?

1. Name some examples. Palmer didn't "pave the way" to anything but a hard time for Dalton. He left him a 4-12 team in a state of chaos from Carson's sudden departure. Thanks, I guess? 

2. Dalton actually finished 3rd in TD passes when he broke the franchise record. Making stuff up seems to be a theme with you. 

3. The consensus is that Marv changed the culture. Only a CP fanboy would claim it was Carson. You can twist it to make it sound worse, but Carson didn't take over a 90's team. He took over an 8-8 squad that barely missed the playoffs with Jon Kitna at QB. The culture change was already in full effect when CP took over. 

BTW, I guess Palmer's culture changing prowess was on vacation in Oakland, eh? 

4. Lol. "If". 

5. I'm going to bookmark this for later. McCarron won't touch Dalton's 106.3 rating.

6. Link? Truth is, you have no idea what talent evaluators would say as of now. Palmer was a first overall pick, whereas Dalton was a 2nd round choice. Jamarcus Russell was a first overall pick while Drew Brees was a 2nd rounder. Leaf was a 2nd overall pick, whereas Brady was a 6th rounder. Point is, talent evaluators aren't always right. Palmer has better physical tools than Brady. Is he better? Nope. Palmer has a better arm than most QBs, including Dalton. That said, Palmer has always been prone to some real head scratching throws. He's also never had the brains to master an offense. He STILL uses a cheat sheet. Dalton is better with pre-snap adjustments and more athletic. Accuracy is good for both. 

Palmer (like Dalton) is having an incredible season. It seems like that has made people forget about how mediocre  Palmer has been in all but 2 seasons (2005 & 2015). He's thrown 20+ INTs three times and has a higher career INT rate than Dalton. He fumbles more often than Dalton.

To sum it up, you ignore Palmer's failures and credit Dalton's success to Palmer. Seems legit. Nevermind that Palmer never attained this level of success here himself in 8 years, and he left the team in worse shape (4-12) than when he got it (8-8). Your only other argument is "talent evaluators" and you honestly have no clue what they'd say. In other words, you have nothing.

Good points S&B..

Talent evaluators hold about as much sway with me as some old lady waiting on the bus when it comes to building a football team. It's a pretty much generic term anyway. Since nobody can see into the future these so called evaluators are just guessing. It doesn't take a whole lot to separate certain characteristics. For example, you don't have to have been an NFL coach to come to the conclusion that not many old ladies waiting on the bus are going to be starting NFL quarterbacks. You can look at someone like Albert Hainsworth and make an assumption he'll be the greatest tackle of all time and when he was fresh out of college he may very well have appeared to be greater than sliced bread, but a few short years later he was marginally better than stale moldy bread if that. Nobody can tell us that Palmer would get his knee destroyed or Andy would break his thumb tackling a guy after throwing a bizarre interception. If you can find a talent evaluator who can predict that sort of stuff you better run from him.

(12-20-2015, 02:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: CBS from after week 12:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25399075/nfl-mvp-projection-can-adrian-peterson-make-it-a-3-horse-race

Sports Illustrated's MMQB after Dalton's thumb injury still had Dalton in 4th place: 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/12/14/andy-dalton-thumb-injury-panthers-perfect-week-14-nfl

There were many others, but considering that these are 2 of the most respected outlets out there, it should suffice.  Stop making stuff up.

lol...there is also a 5th, 6th - 10th place too. Lol. That just fills out the top ten we can keep going. Want to know who the top 25 vote getters are. You are reaching. He was not a serious consideration.

Someone was going to bookmark a post because AJM was not going to be close to Dalton 106.someting QBR.
You were right. AJM in his frist start clinched a playoff spot and posted a 115.someting. ?

(12-18-2015, 08:01 PM)eoxyod Wrote: McCarron has no arm velocity, did nothing in college besides ride the best team in the nation, and even in the Pitt game was always throwing balls high. If he becomes a successful starter anywhere I will eat my dress shoes

You better stock up on ranch dressing!

(12-20-2015, 10:03 PM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: Someone was going to bookmark a post because AJM was not going to be close to Dalton 106.someting QBR.
You were right. AJM in his frist start clinched a playoff spot and posted a 115.someting. ?

lol, literally aside from 2 beautiful long throws, he played like shit.

What garbage decision-making; I have NEVER seen a QB turtle EVERY time he has pressure.

I am glad Hue game managed him to his QBR, but the poster stated for the year. I did not think he looked good at all taking way too many sacks holding onto the ball too long. I am not sure what his QBR is now after his 2 games played, but let's see how he does at Denver next week. AJ can't stand on one game.

(12-20-2015, 10:35 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: lol, literally aside from 2 beautiful long throws, he played like shit.

What garbage decision-making; I have NEVER seen a QB turtle EVERY time he has pressure.

He was about what I expected. The coaches protected him with the run and our defense won the game for us. The difference between Mc and Dalton is quite clear though. Denver's D isn't SF's, so either the run game or McCarron better show up. We can't keep expecting the D to force multiple TO's that set the offense up with great field position.

(12-20-2015, 10:35 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: lol, literally aside from 2 beautiful long throws, he played like shit.

What garbage decision-making; I have NEVER seen a QB turtle EVERY time he has pressure.

This.

AMEN brothers

I smell a MASSACRE if the same shows O up in Denver.

The D can only make so many stops. The O looked like an inept bunch of 2nd or 3rd stringers.

(12-20-2015, 10:35 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: lol, literally aside from 2 beautiful long throws, he played like shit.

What garbage decision-making; I have NEVER seen a QB turtle EVERY time he has pressure.

I didn't see a ton of open people running around and McCarron not seeing them.  I don't think you can put much of the offenses struggles on him.  He certainly has some stuff to work on, but the rest of the offense didn't really rise up and help him out.  His pocket presence was a little rusty but I didn't see alot of check down options for him.  

(12-20-2015, 11:14 PM)bonesaw Wrote: I didn't see a ton of open people running around and McCarron not seeing them.  I don't think you can put much of the offenses struggles on him.  He certainly has some stuff to work on, but the rest of the offense didn't really rise up and help him out.  His pocket presence was a little rusty but I didn't see alot of check down options for him.  

He missed a few wide open guys. 

(12-20-2015, 10:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He was about what I expected. The coaches protected him with the run and our defense won the game for us. The difference between Mc and Dalton is quite clear though. Denver's D isn't SF's, so either the run game or McCarron better show up. We can't keep expecting the D to force multiple TO's that set the offense up with great field position.

They had one scoring drive of over 40 yards

11 yards
36 yards
20 yards