(02-07-2023, 12:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I look around and see teams who were very successful starting to decline, some in a big way, others slightly.

Slightly category
Pats - lost HOF/franchise QB, but still have HOF coach
Steelers - Lost HOF/franchise QB, but still have great coach
Steelers have some cap issues, but Pats do not.
Packers - I don't see this team as a Super Bowl possibility anymore. Have a great QB, but have some major cap issues as well

Major decline
Rams - went all in and won a Super Bowl, now in cap hell
Saints - Downhill ever since Brees left and the Payton. Also, in cap hell with no franchise QB

So, how did KC get to the Super Bowl paying their franchise QB 3 of the past 4 years. In 2022, they made a huge trade of Hill and got rid of his salary and got draft pics from Miami. The Miami Dolphins gave up a lot for Tyreek Hill. Miami traded five draft picks to the Kansas City Chiefs for Hill: a first-rounder, a second-rounder, two fourths and a sixth. The key was in 2022, they did not have a good draft, they had an awesome draft.

As we look back to our bad years in ML's last couple of years, it started with very bad picks.

We will have some tough decisions to make as we have a lot of guys we would love to keep, but reality is we can't keep them all. But the questions becomes, is a Tee Higgins trade something we should consider now or extend him? I love Tee, but trading him may be the best option, Hill got 5 picks, I think Tee could give us 3 picks. The key would be do we trust our FO to draft well.

Thoughts??

I think you just have to continue to draft and select in FA well. They’ve done very well there.

(02-07-2023, 01:10 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yes Joe will be costly, Mahommes and Allen are costly. Lamar Jackson will be costly.

But none will require half of their salary cap. The cap in 2023 is 224 million. 20% of the cap is 44.8 million. I see Joe closer to 20% than 50% of our cap.

But yes, Joe goes from 10 million cap hit to over 40 million very soon. Tee will go from 4 million cap hit to 20+ million very soon for us or someone else.

I was being figurative. 

(02-07-2023, 01:19 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I was being figurative. 

I only pointed it out as I see some fans say things like pay Joe B. 30% of the cap each year for his next contract. I am a detailed person, some are not. 30% of 224 million is 67.2 million per year. 

I love Joe Burrow, but not for 67.2 million per year in 2023 and an escalator to pay him more each year there after.

You build the lines more. The defensive line needs to get more pressure on QBs. Offensive line..well you know.

Honestly, only a few players on offense shouldn’t be traded. Chase, Cappa, Karras and Burrow. Literally everyone else can be traded. I love Mixon, I love Tee, but when it comes to staying relevant, you need to make tough decisions, and those are very tough decisions.

I think the defense has a few who needs to stay Too. CTB, Chido, Wilson , Hilton, Hubbard. I love Hendrickson but he had a down year. Everyone else can get turned over. It would be great to keep Pratt and Bell, I’m not sure you can keep both since Wilson is more talented than Pratt.

Gotta get these drafts right and you have to make smart FA moves now. Money will be tight, gotta get extra picks where you can.

IMO, Mixons contract is a liability. His play is not indicative of his money. Trading him and getting younger there makes sense. Fill that room with players who can pass block well and can hit the holes hard. No dancing. Use Chris Pratt Goddammit. He’s a weapon this team needs.

(02-07-2023, 12:41 PM)Goalpost Wrote: I'm in the keep Tee camp.  Our wr's our the envy of practically every fan base.  Teams would kill to have what we have.

Agreed.   Plus, look at Aaron Rodgers without any decent WR's.  Trash.

(02-07-2023, 01:04 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Everything changes when you need to invest half of your salary cap into your QB.

Yes, everything changes.  When you have a bona-fide frachise QB on the long deal, it is also understood that he is also going to be willing and capable of developing his own weapons from drafted players and affordable free agents.  When a team has a deserving, high paid franchise QB, they are obligated to keep him protected and give him a stout defense.  

(02-07-2023, 02:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, everything changes.  When you have a bona-fide franchise QB on the long deal, it is also understood that he is also going to be willing and capable of developing his own weapons from drafted players and affordable free agents.  When a team has a deserving, high paid franchise QB, they are obligated to keep him protected and give him a stout defense.  

I agree 100%.

Burrow has yet to play behind a great OL. The chicken or the egg argument. What would make Joe better, a great OL or 3 great WR's?

Football starts in the trenches, win that battle and you more than likely win the war.

(02-07-2023, 12:33 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Be smart and follow the blue print of the Chiefs. Realize what position groups are important and which ones/players are luxuries.

The Bengals need to focus on continuing to build their offensive and defensive lines. That (along with QB) is where they should be investing a lot of their equity. That's where championships are won.

Some of the first steps the Bengals can take is getting out from dumb contracts. Mixon, Boyd, and not extending Higgins long term.

Use the money there and invest it into higher impact groups like those mentioned above (OL and DL). If they do that and continue to hit on a few draft picks each year they will be fine.

Yep the Chiefs should be a blueprint for the running game, at least.
They have an elite passing attack, they don't need an expensive bell-cow RB.
Go with cheap veterans and a draft pick or two to form a good RBBC.

Also, get some draft picks who can come in as rookies and contribute.
They got good contributions from McDuffie, Karlaftis, Pacheco, etc.
You don't need to have a veteran starter at every position.

(02-07-2023, 01:27 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Agreed.   Plus, look at Aaron Rodgers without any decent WR's.  Trash.

Who says we wouldn't have any decent wide recievers? This team is going to keep Chase and Burrow together for a very long time.

(02-07-2023, 02:51 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree 100%.

Burrow has yet to play behind a great OL. The chicken or the egg argument. What would make Joe better, a great OL or 3 great WR's?

Football starts in the trenches, win that battle and you more than likely win the war.

Burrow has played behind an average and poor OL. 

His play has been a product of both. He's looked like an absolute elite QB behind an average OL and an average one behind a poor OL (both playoff runs). 

Get this man an above average OL and watch the **** out. 

(02-07-2023, 03:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Who says we wouldn't have any decent wide recievers? This team is going to keep Chase and Burrow together for a very long time.

Yep, and teams will just double Chase and force the "other" receivers to beat you.
You saw what happened against KC once Boyd got hurt.  Now imagine that but without Tee Higgins.

You just can't simply replace what the receiving core that Bengals have now through the draft.  If it were that easy, everyone would do it.

Keep winning in FA. They've pulled off some absolute coups in free agency as of late. You try to keep your guys on the team who have produced but if the price is way out of line with reality you have to cut bait and watch the guy that you developed make fat stacks of cash elsewhere. Aside from Waynes, this team's free agency decisions have been outstanding. They really need to strike while the iron is hot in FA and the draft. I'd lean toward prioritizing OL if it were me. They can't just try to tread water and try to replace the guys they may lose in FA with a similar player. They need to build the roster with purpose. What skills are most valuable to accomplish the task on either side of the ball? Good contingency plans for if coaches leave may be critical as well. 

(02-07-2023, 04:31 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Yep, and teams will just double Chase and force the "other" receivers to beat you.
You saw what happened against KC once Boyd got hurt.  Now imagine that but without Tee Higgins.

You just can't simply replace what the receiving core that Bengals have now through the draft.  If it were that easy, everyone would do it.

perhaps the bengals can have a running game that doesnt rank bottom 10 every year that Burrow has played..

(02-07-2023, 01:25 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: You build the lines more. The defensive line needs to get more pressure on QBs. Offensive line..well you know.

Honestly, only a few players on offense shouldn’t be traded. Chase, Cappa, Karras and Burrow. Literally everyone else can be traded. I love Mixon, I love Tee, but when it comes to staying relevant, you need to make tough decisions, and those are very tough decisions.

I think the defense has a few who needs to stay Too. CTB, Chido, Wilson , Hilton, Hubbard. I love Hendrickson but he had a down year. Everyone else can get turned over. It would be great to keep Pratt and Bell, I’m not sure you can keep both since Wilson is more talented than Pratt.

Gotta get these drafts right and you have to make smart FA moves now. Money will be tight, gotta get extra picks where you can.

IMO, Mixons contract is a liability. His play is not indicative of his money. Trading him and getting younger there makes sense. Fill that room with players who can pass block well and can hit the holes hard. No dancing. Use Chris Pratt Goddammit. He’s a weapon this team needs.

Hendrickson down year is better than Hubbard’s good year. Hendrickson was playing with a broken wrist. Give him credit for even suiting up. We need to add more DL depth, not take away.

We really to focus on OL and DL. The more and more I think about it, we probably need to trade Higgins for draft picks. This will sound crazy, but could we trade for D Hopkins? He’s older, and cardinals are rebuilding. Maybe we could get him for a 4th or 5th. Trade Higgins for a 1st. Draft 2 OL/DL in first round, CB/S in round 2, RB round 3, WR/OL/DL rounds 4-7.

(02-07-2023, 08:00 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: The more and more I think about it, we probably need to trade Higgins for draft picks. This will sound crazy, but could we trade for D Hopkins? He’s older, and cardinals are rebuilding. Maybe we could get him for a 4th or 5th. Trade Higgins for a 1st. Draft 2 OL/DL in first round, CB/S in round 2, RB round 3, WR/OL/DL rounds 4-7.

 


Hopkins will earn a base salary of $19,450,000, while carrying a cap hit of $30,750,000 and a dead cap value of $22,600,000.






Also has a Full No Trade Clause 

(02-07-2023, 12:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Steelers - Lost HOF/franchise QB, but still have great coach

Do they? I am not saying he's a bad one, but he inherited a monster roster that had won the SB 2 years prior and was still mostly together.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2008_roster.html

Look at that defense, even 2 years into his HC reign, 10 out of 11 of the starters were on the Steelers before Tomlin. And they were coached by a HoF DC. Heck, of their 22 offense and defensive starters in 2008, only 5 of them weren't on the Steelers in 2006 before Tomlin got the job. Their #2 WR, their #2 TE, 2 of their OL, and LaMarr Woodley. That's it.

Since he lost his inherited roster, the Steelers haven't done much. They are 3-7 in the playoffs over the last 12 years, almost exclusively with a probable HoF QB. As a reminder, Marvin Lewis was 0-7 over his 16 years.

(02-07-2023, 01:25 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: You build the lines more. The defensive line needs to get more pressure on QBs. Offensive line..well you know.

Honestly, only a few players on offense shouldn’t be traded. Chase, Cappa, Karras and Burrow. Literally everyone else can be traded. I love Mixon, I love Tee, but when it comes to staying relevant, you need to make tough decisions, and those are very tough decisions.

I think the defense has a few who needs to stay Too.  CTB, Chido, Wilson , Hilton, Hubbard. I love Hendrickson but he had a down year. Everyone else can get turned over. It would be great to keep Pratt and Bell, I’m not sure you can keep both since Wilson is more talented than Pratt.

Gotta get these drafts right and you have to make smart FA moves now. Money will be tight, gotta get extra picks where you can.

IMO, Mixons contract is a liability. His play is not indicative of his money. Trading him and getting younger there makes sense. Fill that room with players who can pass block well and can hit the holes hard. No dancing. Use Chris Pratt Goddammit. He’s a weapon this team needs.

Chris Pratt is the weapon this team needs? 

(02-08-2023, 03:24 PM)lacesout87 Wrote: Chris Pratt is the weapon this team needs? 

He’s a piece this team isn’t using enough and it’s because he’s a liability in pass pro. He’s another dimension of the passing game the offense can use. Reliable, speedy pass catchers out of the backfield creates problems for defenses when you have 3 really good receivers and a TE that could split the seems and create problems.

(02-08-2023, 03:24 PM)lacesout87 Wrote: Chris Pratt is the weapon this team needs? 

I would also kick the tires on Nick Offerman and that big Bautista dude.

It's very simple - yet hard to execute:

1. Hit on the draft every year.
2. Sign value free agents.