Simple question? If we can only keep 1, who do you keep? The younger more expensive Bates or the older vet Bell? Of use Hill in Bell's spot and draft or find a free agent safety?

Market Value Bell

• 3 yrs, $29,199,666
• Avg. Salary: $9,733,222
• NFL Rank: 217
• SS Rank: 4
  

Value Bates

• 4 yrs, $56,263,388
• Avg. Salary: $14,065,847
• NFL Rank: 131
• S Rank: 9
•  
  

Bell not getting 10 mil. Maybe 7-8 and bell all day, Bates is so overrated.

Hill needs to play his position. I’d take Bell regardless

Bell at 10. Id only give him 1 year at that price but Bates would never sign that 14M deal so I just dont see the point in realistically addressing that number

Bell, its time to move on from Bates

In either scenario, I'd feel like we were being raked over the coals. I'd rather just restart, spend lots of resources on defense in the draft and spend our money on reliable offensive linemen and OL depth.

I am tired of our season ending because Joe didn't have 2 seconds to throw on the most crucial play of the game.

Bates is younger, more athletic, and is a pass first defender. Him and Bell would cover so much ground in the secondary.

(02-08-2023, 10:42 PM)J24 Wrote: Bates is younger, more athletic, and is a pass first defender. Him and Bell would cover so much ground in the secondary.

He’s also not that impactful the way Lou uses him as basically a deep ball bracket. He’s 15-20 yards off every play and doesn’t seem to be able to get many picks and deflections even though he plays every snap 15 yards off at least.

I’m not gonna act like he’s not an elite player. There’s a reason we rarely give up deep balls and it’s not because Apple or CTB are amazing. It’s because Bates and Bell are amazing. I think you keep Vonn and just tell Hill to do what Bates did. Hill is faster and covers more ground than Bates, Hill just isn’t as smart as Bates. But he can get that from getting reps.

I'm fine with giving Hill an opportunity to start and have a cheaper veteran backing him up just in case.
But the other starter needs to be Bell or Bates for continuity and mentorship purposes.

I think Bell is more of a leader on the defense, so I'd prefer to keep him.
Plus, he should be cheaper than Bates anyway, and I'd rather as much money as possible be put toward other positions that need it.

(02-08-2023, 10:37 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: In either scenario, I'd feel like we were being raked over the coals. I'd rather just restart, spend lots of resources on defense in the draft and spend our money on reliable offensive linemen and OL depth.

I am tired of our season ending because Joe didn't have 2 seconds to throw on the most crucial play of the game.

Exactly.  If Joe can just have time to throw the ball, I think it changes the entire team.  Don't really think we need to break the bank at WR because Joe already knows who will be open due to his football IQ.  RB, we can buy 1/2 a starter on OL by saving some money on this position. On the flip side for defense, I think we can save some money because we're likely ahead in most games.  No need to overpay for vets like Bates.  Younger players will likely cost less.

I want to see a clean pocket for 4 seconds once in awhile!  I think it'd be a completely different game.  Joe would just kill them.

You guys are leaving out the guaranteed money aspect of these contracts.

The issue with re-signing Bates isn't necessarily the overall amount, its the guaranteed amount.

(02-08-2023, 09:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Simple question? If we can only keep 1, who do you keep? The younger more expensive Bates or the older vet Bell? Of use Hill in Bell's spot and draft or find a free agent safety?

Market Value Bell  

• 3 yrs, $29,199,666
• Avg. Salary: $9,733,222
• NFL Rank: 217
• SS Rank: 4
  

Value Bates

• 4 yrs, $56,263,388
• Avg. Salary: $14,065,847
• NFL Rank: 131
• S Rank: 9
•  
  

I love Bell but this seems a little high.  Is Vonn using you to negotiate?

(02-09-2023, 04:09 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: I love Bell but this seems a little high.  Is Vonn using you to negotiate?

Spotrac numbers

(02-09-2023, 04:40 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Spotrac numbers

Spotrac sucks with market value.

Tre Flowers:

Market Value

• 3 yrs, $34,360,420
• Avg. Salary: $11,453,473
• NFL Rank: 181
• CB Rank: 18
  

Everybody down for paying Tre Flowers $11M per year to guard a TE every other game for a handful of plays?

(02-09-2023, 03:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You guys are leaving out the guaranteed money aspect of these contracts.

The issue with re-signing Bates isn't necessarily the overall amount, its the guaranteed amount.

Why is that?  Bell will get at maximum, a 3 year contract, his signing bonus will be his guaranteed money, he might get a roster bonus next season.  Guaranteed money is not the issue with guys at this level.

(02-09-2023, 09:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Spotrac sucks with market value.

Tre Flowers:

Market Value

• 3 yrs, $34,360,420
• Avg. Salary: $11,453,473
• NFL Rank: 181
• CB Rank: 18
  

Everybody down for paying Tre Flowers $11M per year to guard a TE every other game for a handful of plays?

I did see that on Flowers and agree it is highly overpriced. But I have looked at Spotrac a lot of over the years, they seem to be close on most guys values. They also do show us how they derived at the number by using players with similar numbers and under contract to support their prediction.

Is Flowers an outlier? I think so, but we can agree to disagree Spotrac is a useful tool to get an idea of costs for our players and FA's.

(02-10-2023, 03:17 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I did see that on Flowers and agree it is highly overpriced. But I have looked at Spotrac a lot of over the years, they seem to be close on most guys values. They also do show us how they derived at the number by using players with similar numbers and under contract to support their prediction.

Is Flowers an outlier? I think so, but we can agree to disagree Spotrac is a useful tool to get an idea of costs for our players and FA's.

I've followed them since they started, they are usually good with guys at the top but their algorithm is horrible with guys like Flowers, Bell, etc.

How the hell did they calculate 11M per for Flowers lol

He’s 3M TOPS

(02-09-2023, 09:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Spotrac sucks with market value.

Tre Flowers:

Market Value

• 3 yrs, $34,360,420
• Avg. Salary: $11,453,473
• NFL Rank: 181
• CB Rank: 18
  

Everybody down for paying Tre Flowers $11M per year to guard a TE every other game for a handful of plays?

Maybe they accidentally moved the decimal over one? 3yr/$3.4m? Or accidentally mismatched stats with a different name? Lol

Damn didn't expect those results.

I want Bates back. Everybody wants Bell for his leadership qualities. Well Bates is younger, better, and has leadership qualities of his own.

I felt like Bell wasn't as impactful later in the season.

Hopefully our secondary makeover isn't too painful. Chiefs beat us in the Championship with I think three rookie DBs playing so there is that.