Cincinnati will never have the money to spend on payroll of big city teams like New York, Los Angeles and we can add Atlanta and Houston and Boston and others.

So you can either become a fan of a big city team like Yankees, or stay a Reds fan but accept that Cincinnati has to field a team with half the payroll of big city teams in the high priced modern day era.

There was a time in the 1970's that cities such as Cincinnati, Oakland and Pittsburgh could have the best players and teams in baseball. That was when Pete Rose was happy that he just became the first singles hitter to make one hundred thousand dollars. The idea of a million dollar player was unheard of. So the Reds could have Rose, Morgan, Griffey, Bench, Perez, Foster, Conception, Geronimo, Gullett, Billingham, Norman, Nolan, Carroll, Eastwick and also load up their bench with star players starting for other teams, and some on Reds bench had been in All-Star Game for other teams. The Oakland Athletics were loaded with talent and so was Pittsburgh.

Then came Strikes, with 1994 the worst. The days of Cincinnati, Oakland or Pittsburgh being this good ended. These cities will never be able to afford those types of players ever again.

I'm still a Reds fan, I refuse to root for other teams. I accept that Cincinnati will always have less money to spend on payroll than many big cities.

The Bengals are in a different situation, The NFL has TV Revenue Sharing equally to all 32 teams and it has the Salary Cap. So Cincinnati gets a better deal from the NFL than it does MLB.

That said, a team can still have a good season with less than half the payroll of the big city teams. So when some fans say the Reds have gone cheap, those fans don't have any grasp of reality on economics. Cincinnati is small time money compared to New York. To those who say Cincinnati has fans from outside Cincinnati, so does New York.

So I am a Reds fan and they could win games with pitching, defense, clutch hitting and cutting way down on mental mistakes. Such as players not knowing how many outs there is when on defense or running the bases. Thee is no excuse for paid players not to know how many outs there is, plus it is on the scoreboards all over the ball park. The Reds could win more games a year just by not making so many mental mistakes on defense and base running. Physical errors are going to happen, but there is no excuse for mental mistakes, and the worst is a base runner thrown out because he thought there was 2 outs and it was only 1 out. Same goes for defense throwing to the wrong base because the player doesn't know the score or how many outs. The Reds could win more games just by cutting down on all the mental mistakes they make in a season, they are not Little Leaguers.

So I have been a Reds Fan since 1960's. I refuse to root for other teams. I never followed the Cubs or Braves when they had their own national tv cable stations as some did. I'm a Reds Fan, but I accept that Cincinnati can never again have so many good players that MLB refused to let them add Blue Moon Odom because MLB said Reds were too strong already. Cincinnati, Oakland, Pittsburgh will never again be able to load up on players as in the 1970's. The era of The Mega Million Dollar Players puts Yankees and big cities as the only teams who can load up on talent now.

Also Castellini did something Reds fans should be thankful for. Schott stopped the Reds Hall of Fame voting and Lindner left it stay stopped. It was Castellini who came in and took a very generic and ugly new stadium, and fixed it up too look like something. A ball park Cincinnati can be proud of now. Pus outside, The Reds Hall Of Fame. Castellini built that and brought back fan voting for HOF Geronimo got into the Hall finally, and so did Pete, and so The Great 8 Ceremony while they were still alive. The statues added. Frank Robinson brought back and honored. The 1990 Reds honored. When Joe Nuxhall died, Castellini put up outside the stadium, " Rounding Third and Heading For Home " to be seen from freeway drivers. Pete Rose may never be in MLB HOF, but he is in Red HOF. As Pete Rose said, most cities don't have a HOF like Cincinnati has, and Pete say everybody should be grateful to Castellini, and I Agree.

So I understand the Reds have far less payroll to spend than Big City teams, but I am a Reds Fan. The Reds will play some good baseball again. 2020 no fans covid hurt Reds bad on money, but The Reds are going to bounce back with some years the fans can enjoy.

(02-12-2023, 05:21 AM)kevin Wrote: Cincinnati will never have the money to spend on payroll of big city teams like New York, Los Angeles and we can add Atlanta and Houston and Boston and others.

So you can either become a fan of a big city team like Yankees, or stay a Reds fan but accept that Cincinnati has to field a team with half the payroll of big city teams in the high priced modern day era.

There was a time in the 1970's that cities such as Cincinnati, Oakland and Pittsburgh could have the best players and teams in baseball. That was when Pete Rose was happy that he just became the first singles hitter to make one hundred thousand dollars. The idea of a million dollar player was unheard of. So the Reds could have Rose, Morgan, Griffey, Bench, Perez, Foster, Conception, Geronimo, Gullett, Billingham, Norman, Nolan, Carroll, Eastwick and   also load up their bench with star players starting for other teams, and some on Reds bench had been in All-Star Game for other teams.  The Oakland Athletics were loaded with talent and so was Pittsburgh.  

Then came Strikes, with 1994 the worst.  The days of Cincinnati, Oakland or Pittsburgh being this good ended.  These cities will never be able to afford those types of players ever again.

I'm still a Reds fan, I refuse to root for other teams.  I accept that Cincinnati will always have less money to spend on payroll than many big cities.  

The Bengals are in a different situation,  The NFL has TV Revenue Sharing equally to all 32 teams and it has the Salary Cap.  So Cincinnati gets a better deal from the NFL than it does MLB.

That said, a team can still have a good season with less than half the payroll of the big city teams.  So when some fans say the Reds have gone cheap, those fans don't have any grasp of reality on economics.  Cincinnati is small time money compared to New York.  To those who say Cincinnati has fans from outside Cincinnati, so does New York.

So I am a Reds fan and they  could win games with pitching, defense, clutch hitting and cutting way down on mental mistakes.  Such as players not knowing how many outs there is when on defense or running the bases.  Thee is no excuse for paid players not to know how many outs there is, plus it is on the scoreboards all over the ball park.  The Reds could win more games a year just by not making so many mental mistakes on defense and base running.  Physical errors are going to happen, but there is no excuse for mental mistakes, and the worst is a base runner thrown out because he thought there was 2 outs and it was only 1 out.  Same goes for defense throwing to the wrong base because the player doesn't know the score or how many outs.  The Reds could win more games just by cutting down on all the mental mistakes they make in a season, they are not Little Leaguers.

So I have been a Reds Fan since 1960's.  I refuse to root for other teams.  I never followed the Cubs or Braves when they had their own national tv cable stations as some did.  I'm a Reds Fan, but I accept that Cincinnati can never again have so many good players that MLB refused to let them add Blue Moon Odom because MLB said Reds were too strong already. Cincinnati, Oakland, Pittsburgh will never again be able to load up on players as in the 1970's.  The era of The Mega Million Dollar Players puts Yankees and big cities as the only teams who can load up on talent now.  

Also Castellini did something Reds fans should be thankful for.  Schott stopped the Reds Hall of Fame voting and Lindner left it stay stopped.  It was Castellini who came in and took a very generic and ugly new stadium, and fixed it up too look like something.  A ball park Cincinnati can be proud of now.  Pus outside, The Reds Hall Of Fame.  Castellini built that and brought back fan voting for HOF  Geronimo got into the Hall finally, and so did Pete, and so The Great 8 Ceremony while they were still alive.  The statues added.  Frank Robinson brought back and honored.  The 1990 Reds honored.  When Joe Nuxhall died, Castellini put up outside the stadium, " Rounding Third and Heading For Home "  to be seen from freeway drivers.  Pete Rose may never be in MLB HOF, but he is in Red HOF.  As Pete Rose said, most cities don't have a HOF like Cincinnati has, and Pete say everybody should be grateful to Castellini, and I Agree.

So I understand the Reds have far less payroll to spend than Big City teams,  but I am a Reds Fan. The Reds will play some good baseball again.  2020 no fans covid hurt Reds bad on money, but The Reds are going to bounce back with some years the fans can enjoy.

I mean, where you gonna go?  Right, Phil?

If I'm hearing you right, then the Reds only exist to line the owners pockets and competitive baseball isn't part of the equation.  Gross.

If that's the case, then I'm fine with them packing up and moving, or closing down entirely.  

It's not my job as a fan to care about a near billionaire's financial situation, nor should it be.

We can keep the museum, if it's important to people, because the past is all that's left of the Reds as a team.

Bottom line to the OP:

Castellini said he was committed to championship baseball when he bought this team. He clearly is not. I don't care what he built to honor the past. He's a filthy, gaslighting liar, and his kid is basically a movie villain rich kid with no concept of or concern for what the fans want. he bought the team well after the strike. He knew what it was going to take.

In summary: Lying bad. Castellinis lied. Castellinis bad.

Run them out as soon as possible.

(02-12-2023, 04:28 PM)samhain Wrote: I mean, where you gonna go?  Right, Phil?

If I'm hearing you right, then the Reds only exist to line the owners pockets ad competitive baseball isn't part of the equation.  Gross.

If that's the case, then I'm fine with them packing up and moving, or closing down entirely.  

It's not my job as a fan to care about a near billionaire's financial situation, nor should it be.

We can keep the museum, if it's important to people, because the past is all that's left of the Reds as a team.  

Bottom line to the OP:

Castellini said he was committed to championship baseball when he bought this team.  He is clearly not.  I don't care what he built to honor the past.  He's a filthy, gaslighting liar, and his kid is basically a movie villain rich kid with no concept or concern for what the fans want.

In summary:  Lying bad.  Castellinis lied.  Castellinis bad.

Run them out as soon as possible.

Exactly

And I'm afraid we're never going to have a chance as long as they own this team, it's sad.

(02-12-2023, 06:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly

And I'm afraid we're never going to have a chance as long as they own this team, it's sad.

Nope.

There's another big gap in the whole crying poor narrative when it comes to numbers and comparisons.

The OP assumes that we expect the Castellinis to spend like the Mets, Yankees, or Dodgers (or the Padres, who happen to be a fellow small market team).  

There's a pretty significant distance between spending like the Yankees and actually investing an amount large enough to field a non-joke team.  

To me that number, at minimum is about 135 million, more ideally 150 million.  That's a far cry from the big spenders, but it's enough to be competitive.  

The Reds are below 75, which is a disgrace.  It's barely enough to field a bunch or AAAA journeymen.  

The big market spenders are easy to hold up as examples the Reds, A's, And Pirates can never aspire to keep up with.  They are the boogeymen and on the extreme end.  

I, for one would be ecstatic if they maintained a 150 million dollar payroll.  They never have and likely never will under the current ownership.

If they want to spend 75 million a year and cry about being broke when we know they are not, they can pack their shit and leave.

The Reds will never be competitive unless they find the money. The Castellini's are pretending they're poor, but it's not fooling anybody. They did the math and figured out the profits they make by fielding a terrible team vs a competent team are not worth the increase in payroll, or at least not worth the risk of the increased payroll not increasing sales due to apathy of the fanbase.

The only way the Reds become competitive is if they are sold to a group of owners who prioritize winning first and making as much profit as possible second. But at this point I don't think that's a realistic expectation.

(02-13-2023, 08:45 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The Reds will never be competitive unless they find the money. The Castellini's are pretending they're poor, but it's not fooling anybody. They did the math and figured out the profits they make by fielding a terrible team vs a competent team are not worth the increase in payroll, or at least not worth the risk of the increased payroll not increasing sales due to apathy of the fanbase.

The only way the Reds become competitive is if they are sold to a group of owners who prioritize winning first and making as much profit as possible second. But at this point I don't think that's a realistic expectation.

Yes.  Literally no team in MLB, regardless of how well they bring up young talent, wins without spending.  The kicker is, even some of the spending teams have great farm systems well.  

Any way other than increased spending is bringing a knife to a gunfight.

The Cards are exemplary at grooming young talent.  They also bring in guys like Goldschmidt and Arrenado, and pay them.

The REDS 1975 and 1976 teams had 8 all stars and good pitching. Salaries weren't so extreme. My dad told me I'd never see a better team in my lifetime. He was so right. Salaries forbid padding the team with 8 all stars these days even in New York. Heck, I would settle for 2 all stars on the team.

(02-13-2023, 08:24 PM)samhain Wrote: Nope.

There's another big gap in the whole crying poor narrative when it comes to numbers and comparisons.

The OP assumes that we expect the Castellinis to spend like the Mets, Yankees, or Dodgers (or the Padres, who happen to be a fellow small market team).  

There's a pretty significant distance between spending like the Yankees and actually investing an amount large enough to field a non-joke team.  

To me that number, at minimum is about 135 million, more ideally 150 million.  That's a far cry from the big spenders, but it's enough to be competitive.  

The Reds are below 75, which is a disgrace.  It's barely enough to field a bunch or AAAA journeymen.  

The big market spenders are easy to hold up as examples the Reds, A's, And Pirates can never aspire to keep up with.  They are the boogeymen and on the extreme end.  

I, for one would be ecstatic if they maintained a 150 million dollar payroll.  They never have and likely never will under the current ownership.

If they want to spend 75 million a year and cry about being broke when we know they are not, they can pack their shit and leave.

Very much so

It's like trying to win the Daytona 500 in a Soap box derby car. I and most everybody gets it. Cincinnati can't spend with the Yankees, Dodgers, or Mets. But they don't have to field a trash dump team either.

(02-14-2023, 06:18 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Very much so

It's like trying to win the Daytona 500 in a Soap box derby car. I and most everybody gets it. Cincinnati can't spend with the Yankees, Dodgers, or Mets. But they don't have to field a trash dump team either.

It's actually even more extreme than that.  

Payroll for active roster players is below 48.  Sad.

(02-12-2023, 05:21 AM)kevin Wrote: Cincinnati will never have the money to spend on payroll of big city teams like New York, Los Angeles and we can add Atlanta and Houston and Boston and others.

So you can either become a fan of a big city team like Yankees, or stay a Reds fan but accept that Cincinnati has to field a team with half the payroll of big city teams in the high priced modern day era.

Lol, they would be competitive if they actually had a team with half the payroll of big market teams. They are not even close to that. The reds are a joke of a franchise with a complete pos of an ownership. I live in seattle now and will definitely be rooting for the mariners. Can't wait to watch Castillo pitch... 

Baseball is the only major sport that does not have a salary cap.

First and foremost I am NO FAN of current Reds ownership nor was I a fan of Marge not the bunch before this one, but... Reds fans have to see the forest through the trees too. Castillini could and should learn to keep his yap shut, but he was right in that the Reds can't compete with the big bucks teams like the Yankees and others, BUT with good management of the farm system the Reds can play money ball to an extent. They won't be able to sign multiple players to huge, long term deals, but they could have a steady stream of great young players in the minor leagues to groom for the bigs, play them a year or so and bring up the next bunch. Will they? Probably not.. Phil seems to like to keep trading anyone with talent away for the next big thing whatever that means.. I do kind of like where the farm system is headed, but they have to make it to the bigs and really produce before heading off to the green fields of NY, LA and others.. They ain't gonna become gazillinaire players with a .202 batting average or a .909 ERA. They have to prove themselves in Cincinnati..  Have a few great seasons in Cincinnati THEN go sign for a gazillion elsewhere and flop on your face in the dirt.. After you leave for the big payout nobody in town will remember your name..