(02-17-2023, 07:29 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Swapping Jonah wouldn't give them much salary cap relief.  If we are going "all in" find a way to get Tunsil and work Jonah into that deal.

Ah, Laramie Tunsil, the gift to the NFL that just keeps on giving.  Didn't the Bengals have a DT that they kept trading for picks, and then picking back up for nothing whenever he would be cut by his new team, some years back?

I thought Jonah played on the right side at some time or another?

(02-17-2023, 07:26 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Considering he's never done that and would have to reset all his muscle memory, it's bold of us to assume it'll work well enough to risk $13M in cap space. 

Jonah Williams played RT in college.
So it's been a while, but he's done it.

(02-17-2023, 07:29 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Swapping Jonah wouldn't give them much salary cap relief.  If we are going "all in" find a way to get Tunsil and work Jonah into that deal.

Swapping Jonah wasn't so much about the cap relief, but more the age.
Jonah is 5 years younger than Bolles, so he has (much) more career ahead of him.

Bolles potentially won't be playing when the Broncos are actually ready to contend again.
Bolles would be better on a team that's ready to win now, like the Bengals.

(02-17-2023, 07:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Jonah Williams played RT in college.
So it's been a while, but he's done it.

Thought so.

(02-17-2023, 07:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Jonah Williams played RT in college.
So it's been a while, but he's done it.

So again, you're willing to take the chance he doesn't get worst by moving to the right side? Especially for an experiment on a $13M contract year?

(02-17-2023, 08:29 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: So again, you're willing to take the chance he doesn't get worst by moving to the right side? Especially for an experiment on a $13M contract year?

Maybe look at it as trying everything to get the most of a top 10 pick that failed to launch at his preferred position?

(02-17-2023, 08:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Maybe look at it as trying everything to get the most of a top 10 pick that failed to launch at his preferred position?

....

Where he is overpaid and wanted to play LT because they are paid more?

(02-17-2023, 08:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Maybe look at it as trying everything to get the most of a top 10 pick that failed to launch at his preferred position?

Or....hear me out, he plays that because he played there his last year in college and we drafted him based on that play. Again, since he's been in the NFL, he's never played on the right side so you're asking for trouble (see Carman). Not saying it can't be done but in a contract year, unlikely he's willing to put on the bad tape. He has almost only things to lose by switching sides and playing badly.

If it was September saying they are moving Jonah from left tackle to right tackle that could be an issue with very little time to adapt but right now its still February asking him to switch now or even at the start of the OTA's would go a long way in the the right direction. Remember they ask backups to flip flop all the time even changing positions.


The biggest positive about a Bolles trade is its 2 separate 1 year deals and they can definitely fit him under the cap in 2023 even if they extend people. Its not long term so while it opens up the early draft it doesn't stop them from going Tackle.

(02-18-2023, 12:42 AM)Synric Wrote: If it was September saying they are moving Jonah from left tackle to right tackle that could be an issue with very little time to adapt but right now its still February asking him to switch now or even at the start of the OTA's would go a long way in the the right direction. Remember they ask backups to flip flop all the time even changing positions.


The biggest positive about a Bolles trade is its 2 separate 1 year deals and they can definitely fit him under the cap in 2023 even if they extend people. Its not long term so while it opens up the early draft it doesn't stop them from going Tackle.

Spot on. It is early which would make the switch much easier to make for Jonah who HAS played on the right side and played well
in college on the right side unlike Carman.

(02-17-2023, 07:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ah, Laramie Tunsil, the gift to the NFL that just keeps on giving.  Didn't the Bengals have a DT that they kept trading for picks, and then picking back up for nothing whenever he would be cut by his new team, some years back?

Oren Harris from Miami?

(02-18-2023, 03:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Spot on. It is early which would make the switch much easier to make for Jonah who HAS played on the right side and played well
in college on the right side unlike Carman.

True, but that was in 2016 when Jonah played RT.  If forced to choose between Carmen or Jonah to move to RT, it is Jonah without a doubt.

That said... what is the team thinking?  My best guess:

Williams will be healthy and better in his 5th year.  He will play LT.

Collins will start at RT, but only if medical reports are positive. If not, this becomes an emergency spot.

Options:
- If LC is healthy they can draft a LT or RT for the future and the other next draft.

- If LC is not healthy they most likely attempt to draft the best RT or a LT capable of playing RT, or if an outstanding "LT only" guy is available draft him and move Jonah to RT. 


I know they won't, but acquiring a very affordable Nate Davis to replace Volson would make us better in the middle.  This gives Joe a little extra time and much better run blocking. Imagine a LG who, at worse, is equal to Cappa.

(02-18-2023, 03:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Spot on. It is early which would make the switch much easier to make for Jonah who HAS played on the right side and played well
in college on the right side unlike Carman.

Right now Jackson Carman isn't even on Jonah's radar. Carman needs to come into OTA trying to get on the field any way he possibly can Left or Right Tackle...Left or Right Guard doesn't matter. Its year 3 for Carman at worst he has to earn that #6 first lineman off the bench spot.

(02-18-2023, 05:21 PM)casear2727 Wrote: True, but that was in 2016 when Jonah played RT.  If forced to choose between Carmen or Jonah to move to RT, it is Jonah without a doubt.

That said... what is the team thinking?  My best guess:

Williams will be healthy and better in his 5th year.  He will play LT.

Collins will start at RT, but only if medical reports are positive. If not, this becomes an emergency spot.

Options:
- If LC is healthy they can draft a LT or RT for the future and the other next draft.

- If LC is not healthy they most likely attempt to draft the best RT or a LT capable of playing RT, or if an outstanding "LT only" guy is available draft him and move Jonah to RT. 


I know they won't, but acquiring a very affordable Nate Davis to replace Volson would make us better in the middle.  This gives Joe a little extra time and much better run blocking.  Imagine a LG who, at worse, is equal to Cappa.

Williams was still not all that good even when healthy.  He consistently got pushed back in to Burrow leading up to the injury in that 1st Baltimore game.  If you go back to the 2021 season he still gave up 8 sacks which was tied for 5th most.  He just isnt good in pass protection.  He should be replaced with someone better but the Bengals will probably pay him 12.6 million to go out there again to give up a bunch of sacks so he can keep his streak alive at being one of top 5 worst tackles at protecting his QB.

I dont know what they are doing about RT but they need to do something.  Collins wont play for several weeks if at all next season.  Adeniji isnt the answer.  I dont think Jonah is the answer either.  You are taking a gamble and putting all your chips on a guy who hasnt played RT for several years and wasnt that good protecting the QB at LT.   I think its just too much of a risk.  Even if Jonah did work out at RT you only have him for one year at that position and then he is a free agent.  If he is making 12.6 million now what is he going to demand on his next contract?  I think the Bengals need a good long term solution for RT not Jonah.

You could draft someone for RT but the draft is always a crapshoot.   You dont know if that guy is going to work out.  I think the best solution is to go out and sign a good free agent RT, that way you know that position is covered for a few years.  If you cut Collins that could give you an extra 7.7 million in cap space.

Volson certainly needs to step up his game big time.  He was the worst performing lineman on a below average line.  You cant have Volson play like he did last year when you also have a big question mark at RT and at LT Jonah trying to keep his top 5 sacks allowed streak going for the 3rd straight year.  Im certainlly not against bringing in someone better than Volson if the Bengals can afford to do so.

(02-18-2023, 05:21 PM)casear2727 Wrote: True, but that was in 2016 when Jonah played RT.  If forced to choose between Carmen or Jonah to move to RT, it is Jonah without a doubt.

That said... what is the team thinking?  My best guess:

Williams will be healthy and better in his 5th year.  He will play LT.

Collins will start at RT, but only if medical reports are positive. If not, this becomes an emergency spot.

Options:
- If LC is healthy they can draft a LT or RT for the future and the other next draft.

- If LC is not healthy they most likely attempt to draft the best RT or a LT capable of playing RT, or if an outstanding "LT only" guy is available draft him and move Jonah to RT. 


I know they won't, but acquiring a very affordable Nate Davis to replace Volson would make us better in the middle.  This gives Joe a little extra time and much better run blocking.  Imagine a LG who, at worse, is equal to Cappa.

This is why, in my opinion, the Bengals will look for a stopgap cheaper veteran to cover RT until Collins is back to being healthy.
Williams being in a contract year gives one last year to see if Carman will grow enough to take over full-time LT duties.
We might also see the Bengals try Carman at RT while Collins recovers too, but personally I like Carman on the left side.

If they use a draft pick on an OT, I want that draft pick to be a 1st or 2nd rounder (without reaching of course).
These recent Day 3 OTs have been so greatly disappointing - Adeniji, Smith

As for Nate Davis, has he ever played on the left side? His entire NFL career has been at RG, and I'm having trouble finding out if he ever played LG in college.

(02-18-2023, 05:21 PM)casear2727 Wrote: True, but that was in 2016 when Jonah played RT.  If forced to choose between Carman or Jonah to move to RT, it is Jonah without a doubt.

That said... what is the team thinking?  My best guess:

Williams will be healthy and better in his 5th year.  He will play LT.

Collins will start at RT, but only if medical reports are positive. If not, this becomes an emergency spot.

Options:
- If LC is healthy they can draft a LT or RT for the future and the other next draft.

- If LC is not healthy they most likely attempt to draft the best RT or a LT capable of playing RT, or if an outstanding "LT only" guy is available draft him and move Jonah to RT. 


I know they won't, but acquiring a very affordable Nate Davis to replace Volson would make us better in the middle.  This gives Joe a little extra time and much better run blocking.  Imagine a LG who, at worse, is equal to Cappa.

Been awhile for Jonah but I think he can make the switch if needed especially this early in the year like Synric said.

If we make the trade for Bolles, he should be the LT. Volson and Carman fighting for LG, Karras at C, Cappa at RG and Jonah with our 
guy Darnell Wright at RT backing him up and learning. I just don't think the coaches think Volson is a problem at LG and that is where 
Nate Davis plays, all be it well. Volson could grow into a very good LG and even Carman gave me some hope in the Playoffs.

(02-18-2023, 05:28 PM)Synric Wrote: Right now Jackson Carman isn't even on Jonah's radar. Carman needs to come into OTA trying to get on the field any way he possibly can Left or Right Tackle...Left or Right Guard doesn't matter. Its year 3 for Carman at worst he has to earn that #6 first lineman off the bench spot.

All true. If Carman wants to stick around, he needs to be at the very least a competent backup at every spot but Center.

(02-20-2023, 11:51 AM)ochocincos Wrote: This is why, in my opinion, the Bengals will look for a stopgap cheaper veteran to cover RT until Collins is back to being healthy.
Williams being in a contract year gives one last year to see if Carman will grow enough to take over full-time LT duties.
We might also see the Bengals try Carman at RT while Collins recovers too, but personally I like Carman on the left side.

If they use a draft pick on an OT, I want that draft pick to be a 1st or 2nd rounder (without reaching of course).
These recent Day 3 OTs have been so greatly disappointing - Adeniji, Smith

As for Nate Davis, has he ever played on the left side? His entire NFL career has been at RG, and I'm having trouble finding out if he ever played LG in college.

Agree, cheap vet at RT. Bolles I think for a 3rd rounder IS cheap myself. 

Carman's play so far on the right side compared to the left side makes me agree with you. We will see if he grows any in this area.

He needs to big time, agree on Nate Davis too, if he has the problem with changing sides it takes him out of the equation honestly.

(02-22-2023, 03:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Been awhile for Jonah but I think he can make the switch if needed especially this early in the year like Synric said.

If we make the trade for Bolles, he should be the LT. Volson and Carman fighting for LG, Karras at C, Cappa at RG and Jonah with our 
guy Darnell Wright at RT backing him up and learning. I just don't think the coaches think Volson is a problem at LG and that is where 
Nate Davis plays, all be it well. Volson could grow into a very good LG and even Carman gave me some hope in the Playoffs.


All true. If Carman wants to stick around, he needs to be at the very least a competent backup at every spot but Center.


Agree, cheap vet at RT. Bolles I think for a 3rd rounder IS cheap myself. 

Carman's play so far on the right side compared to the left side makes me agree with you. We will see if he grows any in this area.

He needs to big time, agree on Nate Davis too, if he has the problem with changing sides it takes him out of the equation honestly.

Bolles isn't cheap though from a contract perspective.
You're still looking at just under $14 mill base salary for 2022 and $16 mill for 2023.
Having him plus Jonah ($12.6 mill) plus Collins would be expensive.
Obviously you could let Collins go down the road to help cover the cost, but you can't do that without either A) a settlement, or B) holding onto his cap until he's healthy enough to release.

(02-22-2023, 06:42 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bolles isn't cheap though from a contract perspective.
You're still looking at just under $14 mill base salary for 2022 and $16 mill for 2023.
Having him plus Jonah ($12.6 mill) plus Collins would be expensive.
Obviously you could let Collins go down the road to help cover the cost, but you can't do that without either A) a settlement, or B) holding onto his cap until he's healthy enough to release.

To bolds, no Bolles isn't cheap, All-Pro talent never is.  And, having Williams committed to the 5h year option does hamper the money in the OL room a bit, and that is why you ship Collins down the road at the first feasible opportunity.

Obviously the Bengals can't keep 2 tier (price) Tackles on the team and keep all of the other positions stocked for the Superbowl run.  That is why you draft a guy like Carter Warren in late day 2, and have him develop for a season.  Unless Jonah Williams makes a miraculous comeback and simply kills it at RT, while Bolles assumes the LT role, you let him find his worth in free agency.  La'el Collins was brought in on a "prove it" deal, structured the way it was just in case what happened, actually happened.  His guaranteed portion of his deal has been paid, as soon as he's cleared by medical they need to send him down the road.

And that is sad about La'el Collins, as I, as I'm sure many other Bengal fans had such high hopes for him when he was signed.

(02-22-2023, 06:42 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bolles isn't cheap though from a contract perspective.
You're still looking at just under $14 mill base salary for 2022 and $16 mill for 2023.
Having him plus Jonah ($12.6 mill) plus Collins would be expensive.
Obviously you could let Collins go down the road to help cover the cost, but you can't do that without either A) a settlement, or B) holding onto his cap until he's healthy enough to release.

True, sounds like a settlement will have to be done with La'el if we do trade for Bolles. Still think it is worth it.

(02-22-2023, 07:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To bolds, no Bolles isn't cheap, All-Pro talent never is.  And, having Williams committed to the 5h year option does hamper the money in the OL room a bit, and that is why you ship Collins down the road at the first feasible opportunity.

Obviously the Bengals can't keep 2 tier (price) Tackles on the team and keep all of the other positions stocked for the Superbowl run.  That is why you draft a guy like Carter Warren in late day 2, and have him develop for a season.  Unless Jonah Williams makes a miraculous comeback and simply kills it at RT, while Bolles assumes the LT role, you let him find his worth in free agency.  La'el Collins was brought in on a "prove it" deal, structured the way it was just in case what happened, actually happened.  His guaranteed portion of his deal has been paid, as soon as he's cleared by medical they need to send him down the road.

And that is sad about La'el Collins, as I, as I'm sure many other Bengal fans had such high hopes for him when he was signed.

Great post, yes it is sad about La'el. Was wanting him to live up to that contract but those are some bad injuries for a big OL...

He might never play again after those injuries. ACL and MCL and had a bad back most of the season etc.