(02-16-2023, 07:13 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: If they do play the comp picks game this year, they really need to be looking into trading future picks in order to draft who they want this year.  I don't think that it's a coincidence that they started playing the FA game better once they decided that signing good players was a bigger priority than playing dead for marginal draft picks.

You absolutely cannot give up future draft picks to draft guys this year.  The most valuable commodities are cheap guys in the 2-3-4 rounds.  There's no guarantee that a draft pick is going to pan out.

(02-17-2023, 07:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hunter Henry is more talented than Hayden Hurst that is for sure. I guess I would be down with this if it only cost us 1.6m against
the cap and we wouldn't have to pay Hurst a lot. I still find it more likely Hurst gets extended a couple years and Boyd sticks around
for another year myself, but have to be open to these things.

Unless I'm reading Holic incorrectly, that means Henry is due to have a cap hit of close to 12M this year. That means we'd be paying more for Henry while losing Boyd and then needing to replace a WR (though, THAT is our bread and butter)

(02-17-2023, 07:35 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Unless I'm reading Holic incorrectly, that means Henry is due to have a cap hit of close to 12M this year. That means we'd be paying more for Henry while losing Boyd and then needing to replace a WR (though, THAT is our bread and butter)

If that is the case, no way. Bring back Hurst for a couple years and keep Boyd around for his last year and get something out of him 
before he goes for big dough.

(02-16-2023, 03:03 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The issue I have with this suggestion is that we need more, not less picks in the future.  Eventually all of these big contracts will hit and we will need as many as possible that are productive and on rookie deals.

(02-17-2023, 07:31 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: You absolutely cannot give up future draft picks to draft guys this year.  The most valuable commodities are cheap guys in the 2-3-4 rounds.  There's no guarantee that a draft pick is going to pan out.

If it's me, I'm trying to win it all while Hendrickson, Awuzie, Reader, etc. are still on the roster. I don't believe in going as crazy as the Rams or Bucs in recent history. I see more urgency to hit on draft picks in the next couple of years than I do down the road. Burrow getting older should be somewhat of a tailwind for the offense. There's no guarantee that you're going to find another Hendrickson or Reader anytime soon in the draft or be able to afford them in free agency. The iron is hot. Finding long term stability at positions like RT or finding high end competition/depth on the IOL could be worth trading away some picks in the future. And hey, you can't be on the hook for a first round cap hit if you don't have a first round draft pick 

(02-17-2023, 09:15 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: If it's me, I'm trying to win it all while Hendrickson, Awuzie, Reader, etc. are still on the roster. I don't believe in going as crazy as the Rams or Bucs in recent history. I see more urgency to hit on draft picks in the next couple of years than I do down the road. Burrow getting older should be somewhat of a tailwind for the offense. There's no guarantee that you're going to find another Hendrickson or Reader anytime soon in the draft or be able to afford them in free agency. The iron is hot. Finding long term stability at positions like RT or finding high end competition/depth on the IOL could be worth trading away some picks in the future. And hey, you can't be on the hook for a first round cap hit if you don't have a first round draft pick 

I would counter with a few thoughts:
Awuzie is very good, but he is coming off an ACL and he was never Top 5.
Hendrickson is great for us, but irreplaceable?  8 sacks?
I am too biased to comment on DJ.

But the point is, these guys are not transcendent players.  We expected DJ to be great, and were hopeful with Trey but he and Awuzie have been pleasant surprises.  We will find more through the years.

One of the benefits of having a 1st Round pick is the cap hit, the nice discount in the 5th year.

(02-17-2023, 10:35 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I would counter with a few thoughts:
Awuzie is very good, but he is coming off an ACL and he was never Top 5.
Hendrickson is great for us, but irreplaceable?  8 sacks?
I am too biased to comment on DJ.

But the point is, these guys are not transcendent players.  We expected DJ to be great, and were hopeful with Trey but he and Awuzie have been pleasant surprises.

One of the benefits of having a 1st Round pick is the cap hit, the nice discount in the 5th year.

Plus, when you have to pay big to your franchise QB and a dude like Chase you are going to take it in the shorts in FA for awhile 
after and we will need all the Draft picks we can get and hope to hit on them like the Chiefs just did the last couple years.

I was being sarcastic about saving cap space by trading first rounders.  I was more thinking about a scenario like this: Bates, Hurst, Pratt, and Apple all get paid way more money than the Bengals are willing to pay them.  The decision is made to cash in on the future comp picks and to focus on re-signing other players this year.  Kind of passive but whatever, I get why the team would do that.  They can still get depth guys in FA with this method.  Now it's draft day.  Do you sit on your hands and continue to play it passively?  The clock is ticking on your core that's about to go out of contract.  You don't know how much you're going to have to pay your top two WRs.  Do you continue to be passive?  Or do you move some future 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounders to try to land impact players this year?  Impact rookies at TE, RT, OG, RB, Slot WR, and/or edge could be the difference this season.  

(02-19-2023, 01:45 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: I was being sarcastic about saving cap space by trading first rounders.  I was more thinking about a scenario like this: Bates, Hurst, Pratt, and Apple all get paid way more money than the Bengals are willing to pay them.  The decision is made to cash in on the future comp picks and to focus on re-signing other players this year.  Kind of passive but whatever, I get why the team would do that.  They can still get depth guys in FA with this method.  Now it's draft day.  Do you sit on your hands and continue to play it passively?  The clock is ticking on your core that's about to go out of contract.  You don't know how much you're going to have to pay your top two WRs.  Do you continue to be passive?  Or do you move some future 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounders to try to land impact players this year?  Impact rookies at TE, RT, OG, RB, Slot WR, and/or edge could be the difference this season.  

What specific player are you moving up for that almost guarantees us the SB this season?

(02-19-2023, 07:24 AM)casear2727 Wrote: What specific player are you moving up for that almost guarantees us the SB this season?

There is no guarantee that those picks will yield difference makers in this or any upcoming draft.  I'm talking about maximizing their odds while the iron is hot and their core is intact.  Looking at current big boards I draw some conclusions about the 23 class: I see around 7 TEs who show promise as impact players from day 1.  I see a handful of RT prospects who could reasonably work out as good starters within their first couple of seasons.  Now consider likely team needs.  I don't know if you want to trust an average 4th or 5th round pick or vet free agent to come in and try to fill those shoes.  So now we run the hypothetical situation of what the offseason may look like.  It wouldn't be too awfully shocking if this team were to be raided in free agency and the decision were to be made to stick to a comp pick strategy.  Now it's draft day and there are still some question marks on the roster.  Say a guy like Darnell Washington falls into the second round.  Or maybe they drafted a TE in the first and they see one of the top RTs fall into the second.  Maybe they opted to draft a top tier guard with their first pick.  Maybe Zach Charbonnet falls toward the end of round 2.  Maybe a WR or DE falls into the third round who they have a high grade on.  Wouldn't it be sensible to package some future picks to acquire an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder this year if you could go and get them?  The comp picks would help to offset the cost so that you aren't mortgaging the future.  

(02-19-2023, 10:05 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: There is no guarantee that those picks will yield difference makers in this or any upcoming draft.  I'm talking about maximizing their odds while the iron is hot and their core is intact.  Looking at current big boards I draw some conclusions about the 23 class: I see around 7 TEs who show promise as impact players from day 1.  I see a handful of RT prospects who could reasonably work out as good starters within their first couple of seasons.  Now consider likely team needs.  I don't know if you want to trust an average 4th or 5th round pick or vet free agent to come in and try to fill those shoes.  So now we run the hypothetical situation of what the offseason may look like.  It wouldn't be too awfully shocking if this team were to be raided in free agency and the decision were to be made to stick to a comp pick strategy.  Now it's draft day and there are still some question marks on the roster.  Say a guy like Darnell Washington falls into the second round.  Or maybe they drafted a TE in the first and they see one of the top RTs fall into the second.  Maybe they opted to draft a top tier guard with their first pick.  Maybe Zach Charbonnet falls toward the end of round 2.  Maybe a WR or DE falls into the third round who they have a high grade on.  Wouldn't it be sensible to package some future picks to acquire an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder this year if you could go and get them?  The comp picks would help to offset the cost so that you aren't mortgaging the future.  

Well if these are the specific players you are thinking , I will be a hard no.  

Washington is expected to be a 2nd rounder, very late 1st at best, drafttek has him in the 3rd.  He is a very good blocker but he has what, 25 receptions in his career?  

Charbonet is a round 3 guy in many mocks, and if we keep Mixon what do we do with Charbonnet?  He's the same runner with less moves and worse hands?


If Paris Johnson is a couple spots away?  Absolutely, but otherwise definitely nit in the 1st.


We can get one maybe two of these guys and I will be good.

Wright
Schmitz
D Johnson
B Jones
Avila
Duncan
Torrence
Mayer
Kincaid
Washington
Musgrave

(02-19-2023, 01:45 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: I was being sarcastic about saving cap space by trading first rounders.  I was more thinking about a scenario like this: Bates, Hurst, Pratt, and Apple all get paid way more money than the Bengals are willing to pay them.  The decision is made to cash in on the future comp picks and to focus on re-signing other players this year.  Kind of passive but whatever, I get why the team would do that.  They can still get depth guys in FA with this method.  Now it's draft day.  Do you sit on your hands and continue to play it passively?  The clock is ticking on your core that's about to go out of contract.  You don't know how much you're going to have to pay your top two WRs.  Do you continue to be passive?  Or do you move some future 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounders to try to land impact players this year?  Impact rookies at TE, RT, OG, RB, Slot WR, and/or edge could be the difference this season.  

I wouldn't call it passive.  The plan would be to sign the right player even if it meant giving up the 4th you'd get for Bates or 5th for Pratt....but since you're more likely to spend it agressively front loading extensions for your own guys...you aren't spending big bucks on the market anyway. Then you're talking about similar players between cut vets and remaining FAs...why not get the picks?

Also, knowing you'll get extra comp picks next year, you're more likely to trade picks next year for a vet this year.  If they see two RT options as projected BPAs in the 1st, maybe you trade a 4th or 5th next year for a descent TE.  Feeling free to trade a mid rd pick to replace an injured starter by the trade deadline could be a major deal.  

(02-11-2023, 12:23 AM)J24 Wrote: Yes I think Henry  would take a deal that low. The Patriots would still owe him 5 million for this upcoming season.

As for woods yeah he is a Slot WR + he knows Taylor system.

Woods looks like a good TB option but we need to KEEP OUR VIKING GOD TE HURST! Love the attitude he brings and I see him only getting better within our system. Im hping we manage to keep him and draft another TE in top 4 rounds and let Sample go.     

(02-19-2023, 01:45 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: I was being sarcastic about saving cap space by trading first rounders.  I was more thinking about a scenario like this: Bates, Hurst, Pratt, and Apple all get paid way more money than the Bengals are willing to pay them.  The decision is made to cash in on the future comp picks and to focus on re-signing other players this year.  Kind of passive but whatever, I get why the team would do that.  They can still get depth guys in FA with this method.  Now it's draft day.  Do you sit on your hands and continue to play it passively?  The clock is ticking on your core that's about to go out of contract.  You don't know how much you're going to have to pay your top two WRs.  Do you continue to be passive?  Or do you move some future 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounders to try to land impact players this year?  Impact rookies at TE, RT, OG, RB, Slot WR, and/or edge could be the difference this season.  

It is a fine line. I still don't think it is being passive to stay pat and try and maximize your picks. We traded up for CTB and that 
was anything but passive and actually was the right move as we saw. But we ended up with only like 5 picks in the entire draft 
with this method. Still Volson, CTB and hopefully Dax Hill comes around and that is 3 great picks.

Robert Woods ended up getting 2yr/$15.3m

(02-17-2023, 07:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If that is the case, no way. Bring back Hurst for a couple years and keep Boyd around for his last year and get something out of him 
before he goes for big dough.

Boyd is good but he's pushing 30. I don't ever see him getting BIG dough lol. That being said they DO need to draft his replacement SOON. An under the radar guy I like and we spoke with him is Parker Washington 5'10 212 from Penn State and they say he gets nasty in the run game blocking too.

I think I didn't take into account the sheer number of descent role player UFAs there are out there that may take a little less to ring chase with the Bengals. I think they'll have the comp pick outcome in the back of their mind, but it's more likely a 5M/yr pass rusher or Tackle takes 4M once the first wave is gone. We really need to cash in there, so I'm not worried if it's quiet the first few days starting tmrw. I'd rather take advantage of those opportunities and forget the comp picks, though they're likely to get one for Bates since it's unlikely they sign anyone close to him to offset that weird system. Same could be for Pratt if they actually lose him there are a lot of cut LBs out there.

(03-12-2023, 08:55 PM)pulses Wrote: Boyd is good but he's pushing 30. I don't ever see him getting BIG dough lol. That being said they DO need to draft his replacement SOON. An under the radar guy I like and we spoke with him is Parker Washington 5'10  212 from Penn State and they say he gets nasty in the run game blocking too.

Boyd is still a top Slot WR, but yeah, he is getting a little up there in age. I think he can play top notch football at Slot for at least 
the next 4 years so he should get a nice extension from somebody. Cool on Parker Washington, I like the guy, saw him play a bit 
last year and yeah, he is a great blocker with good hands.

(03-12-2023, 11:10 PM)phil413 Wrote: I think I didn't take into account the sheer number of descent role player UFAs there are out there that may take a little less to ring chase with the Bengals.  I think they'll have the comp pick outcome in the back of their mind, but it's more likely a 5M/yr pass rusher or Tackle takes 4M once the first wave is gone.  We really need to cash in there, so I'm not worried if it's quiet the first few days starting tmrw.  I'd rather take advantage of those opportunities and forget the comp picks, though they're likely to get one for Bates since it's unlikely they sign anyone close to him to offset that weird system.  Same could be for Pratt if they actually lose him there are a lot of cut LBs out there.

Patrick Peterson just gave us a shout out as a team he would like to go to for example. Bobby Wagner would probably want to ring 
chase this late in his career etc.

That is what is nice now that we haven't had in the past. We might still have a decent FA even while just trying to hold onto most of
our own because players will take a discount to play with Burrow and this team that is a contender now.