(02-24-2023, 03:49 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Blind hater?  The only thing I've ever said that would be somewhat hateful is when I "laughed" (if that's the term I would use) at you saying Mayer is a generational TE talent.  He's just simply not.

Kincaid is my favorite TE in this draft.  I want my TE to be a complete mismatch in the passing game and I don't think that Mayer would be that at the Pro Level. 

If I can't have my guy be a mismatch, then he needs to be a dominant blocker as well as a guy that can get open.  Washington fits that bill.

I'm also just not a first round TE guy.  The first round guy rarely ends up being the best one out of the class.

Well, there was that Tyler Eifert fellow, but he turned out to be as fragile as he was talented.

(02-24-2023, 04:17 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Hammer I have to agree with you here. Mayer most certainly is not a generational talent. When it comes to athleticism and ability to create after the catch I believe Hurst is better. There are some absolutely outstanding TEs in this draft but none that I would take first round and it seems that many forget that Kelce was selected in the third round. The TEs I would much rather see the Bengals wait to take later would be (in no particular order)...

Josh Whyle - UC - I feel Whyle is already a more dynamic receiving threat and is far more dangerous after the catch.

Tucker Kraft - S. Dakota St. - I see skillsets in Kraft and Mayer that are very similar and I think that Kraft is better after the catch. I think in time Kraft will be a very good NFL TE.

Cameron Latu - Bama - I feel like Latu may be the most underrated TE in this entire draft. People do not seem to realize that this kid only played the position at the collegiate level for a single season. His film most certainly does not look like that of a first year TE. I would really like to get this kid and re-sign Hurst and let him mentor him.

Someone I just thought of that *might* be a close comparison to Mayer is...Jermaine Gresham?
Gresham, like Mayer, put up 800+ yards in college in his final season.
Gresham was well-rounded, and he was a good TE in the NFL for quite a few seasons.
2011-2012 he put up 596 and 737 yards with 5 and 6 TDs.
That was among the Top 10 TEs in the league those years, IIRC.

However, one thing that somewhat limited Gresham was he wasn't overly fast nor shifty, but he was solid in those areas.
Mayer's play and athletic profile remind me a lot of Gresham.

(02-24-2023, 04:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Someone I just thought of that *might* be a close comparison to Mayer is...Jermaine Gresham?
Gresham, like Mayer, put up 800+ yards in college in his final season.
Gresham was well-rounded, and he was a good TE in the NFL for quite a few seasons.
2011-2012 he put up 596 and 737 yards with 5 and 6 TDs.
That was among the Top 10 TEs in the league those years, IIRC.

However, one thing that somewhat limited Gresham was he wasn't overly fast nor shifty, but he was solid in those areas.
Mayer's play and athletic profile remind me a lot of Gresham.

Mayer has better hands. He might not be able to win with speed down the seam but he does it being physical climbing the ladder and creating 80/20 balls. He did an excellent job beating double and even triple coverages.


Safe High floor player... John Michael Schmitz is in the category too. 

(02-24-2023, 04:40 PM)Synric Wrote: Mayer has better hands. He might not be able to win with speed down the seam but he does it being physical climbing the ladder and creating 80/20 balls. He did an excellent job beating double and even triple coverages.


Safe High floor player... John Michael Schmitz is in the category too. 

I guess I considered Gresham to be a safe high floor player too.
I don't recall him having drop concerns coming out of college, but that was over 10 years ago and I was just getting into looking at draft prospects around that time.

Recent (Feb) mocks at NFL.com post SB:

1. Zierlein, Feb. 7th: Calijah Kancey, DT, Pitt.
2. Frelund, Feb. 10th: Anton Harrison, OT, Oklahoma
3. Reuter, Feb. 13th: Cody Mauch, OG, North Dakota State
--------2nd: Deonte Banks, CB, Maryland
--------3rd: Daniel Scott, S, California
4. Jeremiah, Feb. 21st: Michael Mayer, TE, Notre Dame

(02-24-2023, 03:49 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Blind hater?  The only thing I've ever said that would be somewhat hateful is when I "laughed" (if that's the term I would use) at you saying Mayer is a generational TE talent.  He's just simply not.

Kincaid is my favorite TE in this draft.  I want my TE to be a complete mismatch in the passing game and I don't think that Mayer would be that at the Pro Level. 

If I can't have my guy be a mismatch, then he needs to be a dominant blocker as well as a guy that can get open.  Washington fits that bill.

I'm also just not a first round TE guy.  The first round guy rarely ends up being the best one out of the class.

I was referring to your blind hatred and comments with no backing on other posts I have made.

(02-24-2023, 04:03 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I am sorry but I believe you are exaggerating the attributes of Mayer considerably. He does not have the speed that guys like Kelce or even Hurst have and when watching him I would have to describe his breaks as sluggish to a degree. Separation is not something he really creates with his physical abilities on a regular basis and I just do not see NFL defenses double teaming him on a regular basis.

I would consider him in the second round but I believe there are as good, if not potentially better overtime, TEs in this draft that would compliment this offense as receivers more than Mayer would. I would not select him if he fell to us at 28 and I ABSOLUTELY would not even consider the notion of trading up to get him.

He runs a 40 .07 seconds slower than Kelce! He's not slow!

Even so, we don't need him to be blazing fast in the open field because we won't need him to outrun DBs, but we do need him to be able to beat backers with his agility, which he can, and outman safeties for contested catches, which he can.

He can get open and we have Burrow to deliver the ball, which he catches everything. 

McShay said this about him:

Quote:Most importantly, his instincts and understanding and feel in the pass game, his ball skills and then after the catch, he’s a bulldozer. He’s like a mini Gronk. That was his nickname. He’ll just run over guys. He lacks elite speed, but that’s it. Outside of that, he’s a complete player.

Quote in my last post isn't showing up on my page but here it is:

Quote:Most importantly, his instincts and understanding and feel in the pass game, his ball skills and then after the catch, he’s a bulldozer. He’s like a mini Gronk. That was his nickname. He’ll just run over guys. He lacks elite speed, but that’s it. Outside of that, he’s a complete player.

(02-24-2023, 04:17 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Hammer I have to agree with you here. Mayer most certainly is not a generational talent. When it comes to athleticism and ability to create after the catch I believe Hurst is better. There are some absolutely outstanding TEs in this draft but none that I would take first round and it seems that many forget that Kelce was selected in the third round. The TEs I would much rather see the Bengals wait to take later would be (in no particular order)...

Josh Whyle - UC - I feel Whyle is already a more dynamic receiving threat and is far more dangerous after the catch.

Tucker Kraft - S. Dakota St. - I see skillsets in Kraft and Mayer that are very similar and I think that Kraft is better after the catch. I think in time Kraft will be a very good NFL TE.

Cameron Latu - Bama - I feel like Latu may be the most underrated TE in this entire draft. People do not seem to realize that this kid only played the position at the collegiate level for a single season. His film most certainly does not look like that of a first year TE. I would really like to get this kid and re-sign Hurst and let him mentor him.

I feel like someone very important is missing from this list.....

I was just reading somewhere that people are believe that Mayer could test out to be a lot more athletic than think he is.

I hope he does but I hope that he doesn't blow them away because then he won't fall to us.

(02-24-2023, 06:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I was referring to your blind hatred and comments with no backing on other posts I have made.

He runs a 40 .07 seconds slower than Kelce! He's not slow!

Even so, we don't need him to be blazing fast in the open field because we won't need him to outrun DBs, but we do need him to be able to beat backers with his agility, which he can, and outman safeties for contested catches, which he can.

He can get open and we have Burrow to deliver the ball, which he catches everything. 

McShay said this about him:

Todd McShay referred to Will Levis as polarizing so sorry if I do not get thrilled with what he says. You can like Mayer as much as you like but you will not talk me into liking him to the point of burning a first round pick for him. 

(02-24-2023, 06:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I was referring to your blind hatred and comments with no backing on other posts I have made.

He runs a 40 .07 seconds slower than Kelce! He's not slow!

Even so, we don't need him to be blazing fast in the open field because we won't need him to outrun DBs, but we do need him to be able to beat backers with his agility, which he can, and outman safeties for contested catches, which he can.

He can get open and we have Burrow to deliver the ball, which he catches everything. 

McShay said this about him:

Have a strong feeling he will be an immediate impact player rookie year, something we could use for sure at TE... but if bengals have a OT they like better makes sense to draft them but if they don;t have a OT they like there, and Mayer is available love to see us take him

(02-24-2023, 11:20 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Have a strong feeling he will be an immediate impact player rookie year, something we could use for sure at TE... but if bengals have a OT they like better makes sense to draft them but if they don;t have a OT they like there, and Mayer is available love to see us take him

Fair enough. 

I'd just rather see us sign a free agent to be a sure thing and draft a guy after the first to develop because of our bad luck with draft picks, especially early tackles. 

Mayer is a carbon copy of Jason Witten, I think he would be special in the right system.

(02-25-2023, 12:03 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Fair enough. 

I'd just rather see us sign a free agent to be a sure thing and draft a guy after the first to develop because of our bad luck with draft picks, especially early tackles. 

Brad....Imma need a favor.

When my boy becomes the next CC phenom to be an NFL prospect, I'm gonna need you to have this much passion for Cincy to draft him as well lol.

Step 1 however is for my boy to get "recruited" by CC in the next 10-12 years lol.

I don't want to see us invest a lot into the TE position. Both times we have in the past it didn't work out great. Eifert was great but injuries. TE is one of the most injury prone positions.

TE is not a big part of our offense either. I'm happy with signing starters in FA on the cheap for this position. I'd prefer them to be good at blocking with some upside in the passing game.

Best ways to improve this team are to upgrade our oline, pass rush, and secondary.
I also think we could upgrade the running back position by moving to a quicker back that can catch, run and block.

(02-26-2023, 06:00 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I don't want to see us invest a lot into the TE position. Both times we have in the past it didn't work out great. Eifert was great but injuries. TE is one of the most injury prone positions.

TE is not a big part of our offense either. I'm happy with signing starters in FA on the cheap for this position. I'd prefer them to be good at blocking with some upside in the passing game.

Best ways to improve this team are to upgrade our oline, pass rush, and secondary.
I also think we could upgrade the running back position by moving to a quicker back that can catch, run and block.

I don't think Eifert or Gresham are good comparisons to bring up in the discussions about Mayer because they were more receivers than tight ends. Mayer's a good receiver but he's more of the conventional tight end in the receiving aspect than Eifert or Gresham and Mayer can also block a hell of a lot better.

Tight end isn't a big part of our offense we've never had a tight end like Mayer but he'd be a hell of a weapon in our offense because safeties will obviously be doubling or at least shadowing Chase and then either they let Mayer try and be covered by a backer, which isn't happening, or a safety, which leaves little to cover our other receivers or keep a safety in the box to stop the run.

You'd also have to think that Burrow would tell Zac "let's go to Mayer more!"

(02-26-2023, 08:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I don't think Eifert or Gresham are good comparisons to bring up in the discussions about Mayer because they were more receivers than tight ends. Mayer's a good receiver but he's more of the conventional tight end in the receiving aspect than Eifert or Gresham and Mayer can also block a hell of a lot better.

Tight end isn't a big part of our offense we've never had a tight end like Mayer but he'd be a hell of a weapon in our offense because safeties will obviously be doubling or at least shadowing Chase and then either they let Mayer try and be covered by a backer, which isn't happening, or a safety, which leaves little to cover our other receivers or keep a safety in the box to stop the run.

You'd also have to think that Burrow would tell Zac "let's go to Mayer more!"

Tight End and the RB getting the ball on check downs are starting to become a bigger part of the offense because of the way teams are playing us.  I said earlier in the year that this offense needs a running back that can catch and make people miss in the open field, because those opportunities are starting to happen a lot.  The same goes for tight ends.  

Still, if you give me the choice between a guy like Eifert or Gresham and Mayer, I'm still taking Eifert, Gresham, Kincaid, Washington and then Mayer.

(02-27-2023, 02:36 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Tight End and the RB getting the ball on check downs are starting to become a bigger part of the offense because of the way teams are playing us.  I said earlier in the year that this offense needs a running back that can catch and make people miss in the open field, because those opportunities are starting to happen a lot.  The same goes for tight ends.  

Still, if you give me the choice between a guy like Eifert or Gresham and Mayer, I'm still taking Eifert, Gresham, Kincaid, Washington and then Mayer.

Why? Gresham and Eifert weren't anything to write home about and weren't even traditional tight ends.

Mayer is the traditional tight end but then can also offer more of a receiving threat than Gresham and Eifert did.

(02-27-2023, 03:22 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Why? Gresham and Eifert weren't anything to write home about and weren't even traditional tight ends.

Mayer is the traditional tight end but then can also offer more of a receiving threat than Gresham and Eifert did.

Woah, woah, woah.

Its one thing to think Mayer will be good. Its another to discredit everything Glass Man did for this organization. Acting like Eifert wouldn't have been able to compete with Gronk for TE1 of his generation if it weren't for injuries is a mass disservice to the man.

(02-27-2023, 02:36 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Tight End and the RB getting the ball on check downs are starting to become a bigger part of the offense because of the way teams are playing us.  I said earlier in the year that this offense needs a running back that can catch and make people miss in the open field, because those opportunities are starting to happen a lot.  The same goes for tight ends.  

Still, if you give me the choice between a guy like Eifert or Gresham and Mayer, I'm still taking Eifert, Gresham, Kincaid, Washington and then Mayer.

That is all fair, but we want guys who can play both ways at TE. If not, then you are giving up the play via personnel. Or our run blocking will stink, and it needs all the help it can get. It is why I think Mayer, Washington, Musgrave, & Kraft are much more likely for us than a guy like Kincaid. 

If you want an elusive guy you can split out and make people miss, just go ahead & take a WR (Flowers, Hyatt, etc) or a RB (Gibbs, Spears, Achane). I don't want to waste a Rd1-Rd2 pick on a guy who isn't capable of playing in our base offense. A receiver only TE could be had much later, a guy like Mallory out of the U. 

To be fair to Kincaid, it looks like he has bulked up some. But still has that rep as an off line TE who played split out more than in line.