(03-02-2023, 01:11 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Easy, Williams is starting his 5th year, and is what he is, which is average. Volson was a rookie whose play ascended throughout the season and his improvement was evident in each and every game. Volson is on his way up, Williams is just a flat line, and is descending with every injury. 
I do not like the idea they are going to move Carman back to the right side again. Leave the man in one position and see what he can do. 

Did you know Jonah and Volson are virtually the same age? 24 and 25. Jonah was born in November of '97 and Volson July of '98. Like 6 months apart.

Jonah's PFF grade was 70 in 2021 and 77 in 2022. It was 60 this year. 


If you take this years injury into account, that seems like quite the ascension over the years to me...and he's still young as shit for an OL. I can GUARANTEE YOU that he grades out above 70 this year again.

You are just flat out wrong. 

Put Carmen at LT...move Jonah to LG...sign a significant RT for multiple years.

think everybody knew a RT was the only position that the Bengals may make serious effort to address already. I mean Jonah is under contract and will obviously be given his chance to come back to form. As he should be per he was promising until this season and the main question now is, has he recovered fully or has the injury taken toll upon his strength to anchor and stop the bull rush. Believe he was Zac's very first draft pick though, so know the coach wants it to work out.

Have always said this OL is only one more really solid player away from being good. Thought Collins was that guy but not so sure anymore. Seems Collins would be a better Guard nowadays imo too,

And its possible that it may still be very ok with Jonah, Volson, Karras, Cappa, Carman. If Volson takes step forward, and Jonah gets completely healthy once again, and Carman can handle the another switch, and they all stay healthy. They all have earned the right to vie for a starting spot on the OL during their careers but there still are enough "ifs" to need some additions for competition.


Plus this is the last year of the wide open window for the Bengals and hope they do try and land a stud to add to OL somehow.

As Burrow said the window will always be open as long as he is QB, but not with as much elbow room as this year. It's time to roll the dice imo

(03-02-2023, 01:03 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am just kind of bewildered how people want to shit on Jonah but then say they are fine with Volson starting at guard. 

Volson was arguably the weakest link on the line last year. No he doesn't play a premier position like tackle, but he was below average. 

Jonah is fine. He was playing most the year on a bad knee last year. People were absolutely fine with him going into last year, so why wouldn't they be fine with him going into next year? 

RT and LT are the biggest concerns. LT moreso after next year (Jonah pending FA) and RT immedietly. If I am the Bengals, there is absolutely no way I don't take at least two tackles in this years draft with high draft picks and explore FA for an upgrade. 

The 12 sacks allowed by Williams is why some don't want him anymore.


I think the reality is we see Jonah starting at LT, and it will be Carman at RT (at least until Collins is back healthy and only).
I think 1 OT will be taken either in the draft or in FA that can back up LT for sure, possibly both spots.
Given the MO of this offseason is to focus on their internal guys and draft, I doubt they get any guys in FA that would "excite" the fan base.
I honestly do see someone like George Fant as a Tier 2/3 guy who could cover either OT spot if needed and be serviceable or better. He also has played for Pollack before.
But I can also see the Bengals choosing to go for an OT in Rd 1 or 2 that can sit the bench for the first year before taking over starter role once Williams (and Collins) is gone.

Swing OG needs to also be a consideration, as Adeniji can't do that role, and Scharping is a FA who some don't want back anyway.

For me:

1) LT is for next year. Jonah & Carnan are at least playable. Cutting Jonah would be insane, and I get not wanting to move him. Are we sure it would be good for the team? I don't think he is the long term answer, but he is the best we have right now, and we are not signing an expensive uograde in FA and sinking $30 million into LT. That is insane. I'd add that ZT treat him like he is a franchise tackle too often. He needs help vs elite guys sometimes, too.

I'd have an open competition for LT. If Carman wins it (unlikely) I'd move Jonah to RT until Collins is back, which brings us to:

2) RT. Collins was acceptiable, if disappointing last year. The injury is concerning, but I think this talk of "he'll never play again" is over the top. Hell, he thought he'd bexable to play on it after he did it. Tears have different severities. I don't think his was that severe.

Adeniji is downright poor, but we did manage to win 2 PO games with him starting. Smith is, apparently, even worse. My preference is to draft Wright or D. Jones and call it a day. Depending on how FA goes, we could have gaping holes at TE, S, or LB. Plus, we have injury/FA issues at CB as well and could use more pass rush. So a different direction is possible. If it gets beyond Wright/D. Jones/Harrison, I do not think there is a plug & play tackle left.

3) IOL. Fairly comfortable with the starters. No stud here, either. Cappa is good but not great. Karras is slightly above average. Volson IS average/mediocre, with riom to grow. Zero depth, however. Our entire IOL depth is Trey Hill. That's it.

(03-02-2023, 03:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The 12 sacks allowed by Williams is why some don't want him anymore.


I think the reality is we see Jonah starting at LT, and it will be Carman at RT (at least until Collins is back healthy and only).

According to this, you appear to be spot-on.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-say-jackson-carman-will-compete-at-right-tackle-this-summer/ar-AA188Xmr?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=3bc2ddeea9c74e28948f6ca1f0ed272d&ei=28

Quote:The Cincinnati Bengals don’t anticipate a first round pick at No. 28 overall being the answer at right tackle.


But both offensive line coach Frank Pollack and offensive coordinator Brian Callahan think Jackson Carman will be in the mix for the right tackle spot if La’el Collins isn’t ready for Week 1 next season.

Speaking at the scouting combine with reporters, Pollack said instant-starting right tackles don’t usually make it out of the top 10 and that Carman’s growth as a player has shown enough to put him in the competition on the right side.

“He could be the right tackle. Absolutely. He’s in the mix,” Pollack said, according to Geoff Hobson of Bengals.com. “He’s definitely in the mix. Hopefully L.C. can make it back in time and who knows how the offseason plays out, but we’ve got to prepare to have a guy ready and Jackson’s a guy in the mix.”

Callahan echoed these same sentiments, pointing to Carman’s surprisingly good showing in the snow during the playoff game in Buffalo — at left tackle.
Related video: Bengals Head Coach Zac Taylor Talks Tee Higgins, Joe Burrow and MORE (Dailymotion)

“We’ve always felt like Jackson is capable,” Callahan said. “He’s grown up a ton. He’s done a lot of things better. We really felt good about what he put on tape against Buffalo. There are some things he can clean up technically and all that stuff. Not a complete player by any stretch but we really felt good about where he was at. I’m excited about his trajectory.”

These comments coincided with Callahan saying they won’t move Jonah Williams out of the left tackle position.

Realistically, this doesn’t change much about Cincinnati’s outlook. It was obvious Carman would be in the mix somewhere, but that’s not likely to stop the team from adding multiple offensive linemen via free agency and/or the draft.

Carman’s positive showing on short notice last year is simply an extra unanticipated bonus for the team as it tackles this offseason.

(03-02-2023, 04:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: According to this, you appear to be spot-on.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-say-jackson-carman-will-compete-at-right-tackle-this-summer/ar-AA188Xmr?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=3bc2ddeea9c74e28948f6ca1f0ed272d&ei=28

I think this is the most logical. I do they think draft a couple tackles this year though and have them compete with Carman in training camp. 

(03-02-2023, 04:57 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think this is the most logical. I do they think draft a couple tackles this year though and have them compete with Carman in training camp. 

They will likely have an open competition at RT like they did with Carman Volson and Trey Hill at LG last year.

Jackson Carman, D'Ante Smith, and likely a day 2 rookie... Wanya Morris Oklahoma end of the 3rd round maybe....

(03-02-2023, 01:11 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Easy, Williams is starting his 5th year, and is what he is, which is average. Volson was a rookie whose play ascended throughout the season and his improvement was evident in each and every game. Volson is on his way up, Williams is just a flat line, and is descending with every injury. 
I do not like the idea they are going to move Carman back to the right side again. Leave the man in one position and see what he can do. 

I’d put money Volson doesn’t get that much better. Volson’s improvements will likely be in the IQ dept. he’ll probably be a bench, fringe starter his whole career. Which honestly getting that in round 4 would be solid

He was an old rookie

(03-02-2023, 05:09 PM)Synric Wrote: They will likely have an open competition at RT like they did with Carman Volson and Trey Hill at LG last year.

Jackson Carman, D'Ante Smith, and likely a day 2 rookie... Wanya Morris Oklahoma end of the 3rd round maybe....

Adeniji will be in the mix too (unfortunately).
They'll at least keep Adeniji into the preseason, just to have a body if anything.

I think it will be 1 draft pick or vet FA to go along with Williams, Carman, Collins, Smith, and Adeniji.
I don't think they go crazy with multiple OTs brought in.
I've been wrong (plenty) before though, so who knows haha

Yeah...i'm not liking how this offseason is progressing so far. 

I'm not convinced Jonah was right physically this past season, and I mean even before the Haloween night game. He's never been, or going to be, elite. But when healthy he has been solid for the most part. Hopefully he's able to avoid the injury bug and return to form. I'm certainly willing to upgrade if the opportunity presents itself, but as said earlier making that kind of money basically ensures LT is his spot to lose.

I wonder how hard it would be to get Carman into right tackle shape?

Hope he’s comfortable never winning a SB cause that’s exactly what will happen if we ignore the line. Ffs please invest in both lines again. Makes no difference who’s playing QB, WR, RB etc. if we are one OL injury away from a disaster again. Look how far Philly got, yes they have good players but both of their lines is what makes that team tick. Don’t just be comfortable, fix it damnit. In my eyes there are only 2 players on that Oline I would be “comfortable” saying they will be the starter without competition and Williams is not one of them.

(03-02-2023, 05:39 PM)Housh Wrote: I’d put money Volson doesn’t get that much better. Volson’s improvements will likely be in the IQ dept. he’ll probably be a bench, fringe starter his whole career. Which honestly getting that in round 4 would be solid

He was an old rookie

Obviously you must not understand OL, he developed continually as the year went on.  One of his strongest attributes was his ability to pull and maintain body control.  He demonstrated several plays where he made second level blocks, and in pass pro he caught on to stunts.  For a guy that came from a small, run-first school, he is most definitely outkicking his coverage.  Volson will only continue to develop into a household name.  

I like Jonah and readily note that he played most of last year on either the left or right kneecap being dislocated. But that does not change that he is in trouble when facing edge rushers like Garrett and Parsons and Watt. Two of those are in division I note.

Volson trended up all season after the bad start the entire line had courtesy of Zac not giving a line with 4 new starters a single preseason snap together. Karras and Cappa are fixtures and rightly so. That leaves the hole at RT (and I am unhappy Adeniji was not cut immediately after the AFCCG). With Collins being uncertain, to me they need to add three linemen in the offseason. A starting RT, reserve OG and reserve OT.

(03-02-2023, 09:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Obviously you must not understand OL, he developed continually as the year went on.  One of his strongest attributes was his ability to pull and maintain body control.  He demonstrated several plays where he made second level blocks, and in pass pro he caught on to stunts.  For a guy that came from a small, run-first school, he is most definitely outkicking his coverage.  Volson will only continue to develop into a household name.  

I would note that later in the season and postseason as he got comfortable he started to have some of those "soul taking" blocks which showed that in a gap scheme Volson will be a good one. 

Jonah is injury prone and is neither exceptionally quick or exceptionally strong. You gotta at least be one. If you’re exceptionally quick you can protect against the straight on bull rush. If you’re exceptionally strong you can protect against the fast outside rush. If you’re neither you are vulnerable to either.

(03-02-2023, 09:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Obviously you must not understand OL, he developed continually as the year went on.  One of his strongest attributes was his ability to pull and maintain body control.  He demonstrated several plays where he made second level blocks, and in pass pro he caught on to stunts.  For a guy that came from a small, run-first school, he is most definitely outkicking his coverage.  Volson will only continue to develop into a household name.  

This x 1000