(03-08-2023, 10:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote:

My wife drives me crazy watching that show..

Well, I’d say the front office and other heads around the league know more about a coaches ability than a bunch of guys on a forum. Not to long ago everyone wanted Taylor gone..

If they draft Dawand Jones then he's the perfect coach for him to make him a dominate pro. Thats the only first rounder I'd give him to maximize the talent. Its the perfect marriage.

(03-08-2023, 10:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My wife drives me crazy watching that show..

I think it's on in 21 minutes, isn't it?  I'm a big fan of it, my wife is accepting of that.  Let's face it...we easily could have lost turdy pound dis munt.

(03-08-2023, 10:37 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: Well, I’d say the front office and other heads around the league know more about a coaches ability than a bunch of guys on a forum.   Not to long ago everyone wanted Taylor gone..

Well sir my only knock on Pollack is being able to develop "certain" young talent. As far as Zac he wasn't a very good coach at first but he was able to get Joe Burrow and it changed a franchise & region. That's why the structure of his deal will be so important!! Its worth millions to the Midwest! So much money will be made off of his deal alone. Bars/ Storefronts/ Restaurants/ Entrepreneurs./ Investors are all waiting on "His" deal.

Uh, I trust him more than Jim Turner. Otherwise, I'm pretty lukewarm about him.

(03-08-2023, 10:37 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: Well, I’d say the front office and other heads around the league know more about a coaches ability than a bunch of guys on a forum.   Not to long ago everyone wanted Taylor gone..

Sure they do. That's why we went with Tiger Johnson over Bill Walsh, It's why Cleveland fired Bill Belichick, it's why we fired Dick LaBeau as DC.

Do they know more? Yes. Do they get it wrong? Yes. Can a bunch of guys on a forum get it right? Yes. Otherwise, what's the point of discussion?

(03-08-2023, 11:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure they do. That's why we went with Tiger Johnson over Bill Walsh, It's why Cleveland fired Bill Belichick, it's why we fired Dick LaBeau as DC.

Do they know more? Yes. Do they get it wrong? Yes. Can a bunch of guys on a forum get it right? Yes. Otherwise, what's the point of discussion?

Does this mean I don't have to wait until I sell a million records to say that Justin Beiber sucks?  

We went on a spending spree a year ago because of how behind schedule we were. I can't see a case built for him, though he is our OL coach and we support the team. We have been so bad as a team at developing the OL for the past decade, that's hard to dispute. Instead of blaming one person (Duke, Piano Man, Turner, Frank) it just hasn't worked and I don't have the answer. It's one thing to work on technique, chemistry and choosing to move or not move positions, but it's like we're just hoping a 1st rounder can at least be a fringe starter at this rate.

I won't lie that though we need long term development at tackle, I trust a trade more than a pick (especially in light of trying to win now). It shouldn't come to that, but if someone said "the card is up in the 2nd, they're going OL" my mind goes to them reaching for a guy they'll play out of position and expect him to challenge for a starting gig. I want long term development, but we need to build on last year, stay healthy and not force Burrow to have to throw it so quick and the backs to fight to get 3-4 yds.

Well let's see.

Zack came in and for his first two seasons we had Turner under whom players uniformly regressed. It was so bad it wasn't even safe to draft linemen with Turner. The Free Agency splurge on OL was partly necessitated by the team having to essentially clean out the OL room after turner (only Jonah and Adeniji are left IIRC).

Pollack had had a miss or two but arguably players get better under his tutelage. Witness Volson and Carman. Is he perfect? No. Neither are Zac and Callahan either (after all they are the ones who kept trying to have linemen best in gap power play wide zone instead).

Add in that the line (before it got destroyed by injuries) was showing well and developing an identity and yes I think Pollack can be trusted - just Zack needs to actually play the first team OL AS A UNIT in preseason some to let them gel before it's for real.

(03-09-2023, 12:51 AM)Joelist Wrote: Well let's see.

Zack came in and for his first two seasons we had Turner under whom players uniformly regressed. It was so back it wasn't even safe to draft linemen with Turner. The Free Agency splurge on OL was partly necessitated by the team having to essentially clean out the OL room after turner (only Jonah and Adeniji are left IIRC).

Pollack had had a miss orb two but arguably players get better under his tutelage. Witness Volson and Carman. Is he perfect? No. Neither are Zac and Callahan either (after all they are the ones who kept trying to have linemen best in gap power play wide zone instead).  

Add in that the line (before it got destroyed by injuries) was showing well and developing an identity and yes I think Pollack can be trusted - just Zack needs to actually play the first team OL AS A UNIT in preseason some to let them gel before it's for real.

Jackson Carman was drafted in the 2nd Rd while Frank Pollack was our online coach. JC has gone from our starting RG to a back up "under his tutelage". 

As to Volson..

I think Pollak is an okay coach. I believe he's inflated by some fans because he followed two crappy situations. 

I saw a list of OL drafted under Pollak as the main OL coach recently. It's not a glowing list.

(03-09-2023, 01:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Jackson Carman was drafted in the 2nd Rd while Frank Pollack was our online coach. JC has gone from our starting RG to a back up "under his tutelage". 

As to Volson..

They drafted a natural LT and tried to force him into RG. He's developing well just a little slower but when they finally put him in at LT he showed well. And contrary to your opinion so did Volson especially once the line had real reps as a unit. For a late round rookie to trend up all season and wind up playing at or a bit above the league average speaks well of the coaching. 

So yes Carman showing well in the playoffs at LT reflects well on Pollack and so does Volson developing into a solid starting Guard. He's had misses too (no doubt he also had a hand in the offense flipping back and forth in blocking schemes) but on the whole he can and has successfully developed OL talent. 

(03-09-2023, 02:07 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I think Pollak is an okay coach. I believe he's inflated by some fans because he followed two crappy situations. 

I saw a list of OL drafted under Pollak as the main OL coach recently. It's not a glowing list.

I never claimed he was a GOAT coach. He unfortunately in both Bengals stints followed disasters (Alexander after he lost the plot and Turner) and got stuck trying to fix improperly coached players. His first stint was so short he had no real time to work with players and this stint he is having a positive effect (even on Jonah until this season both his kneecaps went on hiatus). His strongest suit seems to be teaching correct footwork and technique. His weakest point seems to be fitting the scheme to the players - hopefully we stop the wide zone scheme with players best suited to gap power nonsense. 

The Bills game was impressive.

He hasn't had much to work with.

(03-08-2023, 10:05 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

As much as most would like to "Not" say it. Who has this guy really developed? I say that to ask the question. Do you trust him to rebuild this line for the future & develop young offensive line talent. Its a fair question. Who has he really made a "Better" player in his tenures here?

As much as we need OLine help don't be surprised if the pick goes to another room. Just saying.

I think it is more a question of do I trust the Bengals drafting offensive linemen, specifically tackles, early in the draft.  They can't whiff again.  I would prefer to try and address it with a guy like McGlinchy and use draft picks on a developmental tackle, DE, CB, WR, TE, etc.  

I'll ask the question I always ask and rarely get an answer to. If you get rid of Pollack, who are you going to hire to replace him that is better than him?

(03-08-2023, 11:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Does this mean I don't have to wait until I sell a million records to say that Justin Beiber sucks?  

Well, you did buy a damned guitar in the first place.. if you're not gonna sell a million records then don't go gettin all down on lil Justin even if sucks is his middle name.. ~Justin Sucks Beiber..  Apologies to everyone else with the name of Justin.. 

Long answer.... No.

(03-08-2023, 07:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Slow down there, we don't even know if he's actually good at LT at the NFL level yet.  The only game that he's looked "good" in, was sort of a fluke.  In the snow, versus a depleted, emotionally drained Buffalo defense that looked anything but ready for playoff battle that day.  He was "fair" in the AFCCG loss to KC.

The fact that up until the point where the team needed it's 4th option at Tackle to take the field, he never saw any meaningful action this year.  That speaks volumes about what the coaches must have been feeling about how his progress had been going.  Don't get the wrong idea, I want him to mature into a good player, the team spent a 2nd round pick on the guy.  However, it's a little early to be thinking that LT is "covered" if Williams faulters.

What choice do we have we have a 2nd round pick and 12 million invested in LT already how many more resources can we push to LT this year.

Carman was not a Pollack pick. If Pollacks does not turn this run game around then Carman is most likely going to be on this team after Pollack is gone down the road to the next team.

Many people questioned Pollacks coaching methods last year standing on balls trying to balance. We have seen very little in way of development across the O-line with the second stringers. The starters was all already decent players when Pollack got his hands on them in Karras and Cappa. The one guy Pollack had any ties to Collins sucked and we are looking to upgrade at RT.

Pollack is on a short leash with me. Not the O-line players.