(03-09-2023, 03:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Or at least if you do Draft an OL and want to move him, he should of at least played on said side at one time.

Some OL cannot play on both sides, actually lots cannot. So you are correct, you don't draft Darnell Wright and put him at LT.

You draft him to play RT where he played at Tennessee.

Simple stuff really lol


You at the very least do not rule it out. All options should be on the table instead of painting yourself into a corner.


Brian Callahan and Frank Pollack anyways...

Oh well, just have to hope beyond hope Darnell Wright falls to us and we take him and at the very least Carman becomes a
decent backup at both Tackle spots. Honestly don't see him being a good backup at RT from what we saw of him playing on
the right side.

Darnell Wright played LT his entire junior year at UT.  He is better at RT.

(03-09-2023, 03:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Pollack took over OL coach for Dallas 2015-2017.
Frederick was drafted 2013.
Zach Martin was drafted 2014.

Since Pollack took over as OL coach, here were the drafted OL:
2015 - Chaz Green (Rd 3), Laurence Gibson (Rd 7), La'el Collins (UDFA due to off-field reason)
2016 - none
2017 - none

With the Jets, here were his drafted OL:
2019 - Chuma Edoga (Rd 3)
2020 - Mekhi Becton (Rd 1), Cameron Clark (Rd 4)

And then his drafted OL with Bengals:
2018 - Price (Rd 1), Rod Taylor (Rd 7)
2021 - Carman (Rd 2), Smith (Rd 4), Hill (Rd 6)
2022 - Volson (Rd 4)

That is NOT a pretty list.

(03-09-2023, 04:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Darnell Wright played LT his entire junior year at UT.  He is better at RT.

Good to know. He is versatile as well, even better...

(03-09-2023, 03:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not sure sure, personally.
Becton has been in the league for 3 seasons and played only 739 offensive snaps, all but 48 of which came in 2020.
In that timespan, he's had 443 pass block snaps and allowed 25 total pressures including 7 sacks.
The jury is still out on whether he'll become a good player in his career, as he hasn't had much of an opportunity to see the field.

The pessimist in me wants to say just because Volson started at LG this past season, he still wasn't "good," but as a 4th round rookie coming from FCS school, he's coming along I guess. I hope he continues to ascend, as he's definitely one of the worst starters on the team right now.

Carman also is a question mark. He's looked decent at LT and even at LG for limited snaps in 2021. But he was a disaster at RG, no denying that.
This could be Carman's make-or-break season.

Nice post Ochocincos, all true. Was just trying to give Pollack a little cred. He IS better than the Piano Man, but that isn't 
saying much. I would be all for adding a better OL coach if the OL doesn't make significant strides this year.

(03-09-2023, 03:57 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Oh man, don't type "Volson" that always leads to polarizing posts. 

Which is weird, dude was decent for a 4th round rookie being thrown into the starting lineup. He should only get better now that 
he has played against elite NFL talent. Dude completely decleated a couple guys this last season and that was awesome.

I like Volson.

I am sure I will get all kind of flack for saying so lol 

(03-09-2023, 05:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post Ochocincos, all true. Was just trying to give Pollack a little cred. He IS better than the Piano Man, but that isn't 
saying much. I would be all for adding a better OL coach if the OL doesn't make significant strides this year.


Which is weird, dude was decent for a 4th round rookie being thrown into the starting lineup. He should only get better now that 
he has played against elite NFL talent. Dude completely decleated a couple guys this last season and that was awesome.

I like Volson.

I am sure I will get all kind of flack for saying so lol 

Yes and no.

Alexander has (way) more notable great players under his tutelage.
He just really swung and missed with Ogbuehi and Fisher, leading to the need (or desire) to try someone new.


I had high hopes for Pollack, but he's been here 3 years now and he really just has...Volson to speak on, maybe?
We can't say for sure yet with Carman since he hasn't solidified a starting spot again, we know Price was a bust for the Bengals, and there aren't any other guys who have really come on.

Pollack might be the kind of guy that's good with proven talent but not great at developing new dudes.

(03-09-2023, 03:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Pollack took over OL coach for Dallas 2015-2017.
Frederick was drafted 2013.
Zach Martin was drafted 2014.

Since Pollack took over as OL coach, here were the drafted OL:
2015 - Chaz Green (Rd 3), Laurence Gibson (Rd 7), La'el Collins (UDFA due to off-field reason)
2016 - none
2017 - none

With the Jets, here were his drafted OL:
2019 - Chuma Edoga (Rd 3)
2020 - Mekhi Becton (Rd 1), Cameron Clark (Rd 4)

And then his drafted OL with Bengals:
2018 - Price (Rd 1), Rod Taylor (Rd 7)
2021 - Carman (Rd 2), Smith (Rd 4), Hill (Rd 6)
2022 - Volson (Rd 4)

Gotcha! I was thinking that he was responsible for Frederick, Martin, and Collins. Carman and Volson may end up working out but the rest looks pretty bad. 

(03-09-2023, 05:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes and no.

Alexander has (way) more notable great players under his tutelage.
He just really swung and missed with Ogbuehi and Fisher, leading to the need (or desire) to try someone new.


I had high hopes for Pollack, but he's been here 3 years now and he really just has...Volson to speak on, maybe?
We can't say for sure yet with Carman since he hasn't solidified a starting spot again, we know Price was a bust for the Bengals, and there aren't any other guys who have really come on.

Pollack might be the kind of guy that's good with proven talent but not great at developing new dudes.

Could say the same thing about PA, he was good with proven talent, but couldn't coach up his players. The great players were polished
when they got here, Braham, Whit, Bobbie Williams, Willie, Steinbach, Levi Jones etc. 

We all remember when he was starting Nasty Nate Livings, Stacy Andrews, Gutcheck, drafting Ogbuehi and Fisher who really hurt the 
entire team late in the Marv years...

As much as I am not impressed with what Pollack has done so far I like him better than the Piano Man.

(03-09-2023, 06:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Could say the same thing about PA, he was good with proven talent, but couldn't coach up his players. The great players were polished
when they got here, Braham, Whit, Bobbie Williams, Willie, Steinbach, Levi Jones etc. 

We all remember when he was starting Nasty Nate Livings, Stacy Andrews, Gutcheck, drafting Ogbuehi and Fisher who really hurt the 
entire team late in the Marv years...

As much as I am not impressed with what Pollack has done so far I like him better than the Piano Man.

PA took over as OL coach in 1994.

Here are his OL drafted:
1994 - Trent Pollard (Rd 5), Jerry Reynolds (Rd 6)
1995 - Melvin Tuten (Rd 3), Ryan Grigson (Rd 6)
1996 - Willie Anderson (Rd 1), Ken Blackman (Rd 3), Rod Jones (Rd 7)
1997 - Rod Payne (Rd 3)
1998 - Mike Goff (Rd 3)
1999 - Tony Coats (Rd 7)
2000 - none
2001 - Victor Leyva (Rd 5)
2002 - Levi Jones (Rd 1)
2003 - Eric Steinbach (Rd 2), Scott Kooistra (Rd 7)
2004 - Stacy Andrews (Rd 4)
2005 - Ghiaciuc (Rd 4), Adam Kieft (Rd 5)
2006 - Whitworth (Rd 2)
2007 - Dan Santucci (Rd 7)
2008 - Anthony Collins (Rd 4)
2009 - Andre Smith (Rd 1), Jonathan Luigs (Rd 4)
2010 - Otis Hudson (Rd 5), Reggie Stephens (Rd 7)
2011 - Boling (Rd 4)
2012 - Zeitler (Rd 1)
2013 - Tanner Hawkinson (Rd 5), Reid Fragel (Rd 7), TJ Johnson (Rd 7)
2014 - Bodine (Rd 4)
2015 - Ogbuehi (Rd 1), Fisher (Rd 2)
2016 - Westerman (Rd 5)
2017 - JJ Dielman (Rd 5)

Out of that list, 8 drafted OL that played well for Bengals (or maybe just 7? I didn't really remember Mike Goff's performance as a Bengal)

So Alexander definitely was able to identify some good talent, but that was more his first 15-20 years with the team. The last 5 years (2013-2017) really sank the OL and is a big reason why they moved on from him. It was thought he didn't evolve with the game.

It's also worth noting out of all the guys PA actually hit on, he hit on every 1st round OL selected until Ogbuehi, and he hit on every 2nd rounder until Fisher.
No luck whatsoever on guys taken Rds 5-7.

(03-09-2023, 06:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: PA took over as OL coach in 1994.

Here are his OL drafted:
1994 - Trent Pollard (Rd 5), Jerry Reynolds (Rd 6)
1995 - Melvin Tuten (Rd 3), Ryan Grigson (Rd 6)
1996 - Willie Anderson (Rd 1), Ken Blackman (Rd 3), Rod Jones (Rd 7)
1997 - Rod Payne (Rd 3)
1998 - Mike Goff (Rd 3)
1999 - Tony Coats (Rd 7)
2000 - none
2001 - Victor Leyva (Rd 5)
2002 - Levi Jones (Rd 1)
2003 - Eric Steinbach (Rd 2), Scott Kooistra (Rd 7)
2004 - Stacy Andrews (Rd 4)
2005 - Ghiaciuc (Rd 4), Adam Kieft (Rd 5)
2006 - Whitworth (Rd 2)
2007 - Dan Santucci (Rd 7)
2008 - Anthony Collins (Rd 4)
2009 - Andre Smith (Rd 1), Jonathan Luigs (Rd 4)
2010 - Otis Hudson (Rd 5), Reggie Stephens (Rd 7)
2011 - Boling (Rd 4)
2012 - Zeitler (Rd 1)
2013 - Tanner Hawkinson (Rd 5), Reid Fragel (Rd 7), TJ Johnson (Rd 7)
2014 - Bodine (Rd 4)
2015 - Ogbuehi (Rd 1), Fisher (Rd 2)
2016 - Westerman (Rd 5)
2017 - JJ Dielman (Rd 5)

Out of that list, 8 drafted OL that played well for Bengals (or maybe just 7? I didn't really remember Mike Goff's performance as a Bengal)

So Alexander definitely was able to identify some good talent, but that was more his first 15-20 years with the team. The last 5 years (2013-2017) really sank the OL and is a big reason why they moved on from him. It was thought he didn't evolve with the game.

It's also worth noting out of all the guys PA actually hit on, he hit on every 1st round OL selected until Ogbuehi, and he hit on every 2nd rounder until Fisher.
No luck whatsoever on guys taken Rds 5-7.

Nice post. Yeah, have to give PA credit for hitting on the 1st and 2nd rounders in his tenure here. I too think the game evolved and 
he couldn't keep up and still do like Pollack better now, which still isn't saying much IMO. We can do better if Pollack doesn't get this 
OL fixed this year. Adding Eluemunor and maybe Taylor Lewan on a 1 year prove it deal and drafting a guy like Darnell Wright for the
future sure could help barring injuries.

I would also put Russ Bodine in bold. He was never a star and he fell off quickly once his rookie contract expired and he left in FA, but he was a solid (not spectacular, but not terrible either) 4-year starter. Good value from a 4th round pick.

Uh, Bodine was terrible. His specialty was blocking the wrong guy. He had the physical tools but the mental part was not there and resulted in constant free rushers up the middle.

(03-10-2023, 12:10 AM)BuildTheWall Wrote: I would also put Russ Bodine in bold. He was never a star and he fell off quickly once his rookie contract expired and he left in FA, but he was a solid (not spectacular, but not terrible either) 4-year starter. Good value from a 4th round pick.

I wouldn't call Bodine solid. He was very underwhelming. 

(03-09-2023, 06:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post. Yeah, have to give PA credit for hitting on the 1st and 2nd rounders in his tenure here. I too think the game evolved and 
he couldn't keep up and still do like Pollack better now, which still isn't saying much IMO. We can do better if Pollack doesn't get this 
OL fixed this year. Adding Eluemunor and maybe Taylor Lewan on a 1 year prove it deal and drafting a guy like Darnell Wright for the
future sure could help barring injuries.

Kinda hard to compare 24 years to 3 seasons.  Still lots of misses there and Pollack has not had a high draft choice as of yet.  The development hasnt been good but that list is a long time to hit on 9 guys with 7 of them being 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders.

(03-09-2023, 06:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Out of that list, 8 drafted OL that played well for Bengals (or maybe just 7? I didn't really remember Mike Goff's performance as a Bengal)

So Alexander definitely was able to identify some good talent, but that was more his first 15-20 years with the team. The last 5 years (2013-2017) really sank the OL and is a big reason why they moved on from him. It was thought he didn't evolve with the game.

It's also worth noting out of all the guys PA actually hit on, he hit on every 1st round OL selected until Ogbuehi, and he hit on every 2nd rounder until Fisher.
No luck whatsoever on guys taken Rds 5-7.

There’s a stat that says on average lineman selected rounds 5- 7 do not know how to pour ketchup properly hence why Alexander didn’t have success. Lineman from rounds 1 - 3 on average know how to properly pour ketchup. What I understand Alexander had this part of his talent evaluation at lineman pro days at their university.

Alexander was a bum, currently is a bum and will always be a bum. He is the poster child for the lost decade. You become buddies with Mike Brown and you are n for life regardless of your competencies. I could succeed as a offensive line coach with the same talent Alexander had success with. Alexander wasn’t special, currently isn’t special and will never be special. He sucked.

This team went south the instant Mike Brown let Jim McNally go and inserted Alexander. This organization still hasn’t recovered from that asinine decision by Mike Brown.

As you can tell, I cannot stand Alexander and having to listen to him bloviate on the NFL channel on Sirius is nauseating. I change the channel now when he comes on. The dude isn’t insightful at all.


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(03-09-2023, 05:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post Ochocincos, all true. Was just trying to give Pollack a little cred. He IS better than the Piano Man, but that isn't 
saying much. I would be all for adding a better OL coach if the OL doesn't make significant strides this year.


Which is weird, dude was decent for a 4th round rookie being thrown into the starting lineup. He should only get better now that 
he has played against elite NFL talent. Dude completely decleated a couple guys this last season and that was awesome.

I like Volson.

I am sure I will get all kind of flack for saying so lol 

I do too, and I expect him to make a huge leap this year. Now that he has a full year of play under his belt, and he is actually an NFL lineman that can take advantage of things like Big Willie's and other's services, along with another year of coaching from Pollack, I expect him to have a solid year.

(03-10-2023, 09:35 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I do too, and I expect him to make a huge leap this year. Now that he has a full year of play under his belt, and he is actually an NFL lineman that can take advantage of things like Big Willie's and other's services, along with another year of coaching from Pollack, I expect him to have a solid year.

We three do. The expectation level is pretty high here. Volson was a 4th rounder and didn’t play a high level of competition. Once he got acclimated he did pretty good. We played several late games and playoff games without 3 OL starters. We won 10 games in a row. When we were healthy we were good not great. Many on here act like none of that matters. The first KC game with no sacks by Chris Jones or the rest of their DL was a dream or the Bills game. They are still demanding major FA signings despite what we need to do to keep Tee,Chase, and Joe. Much less many defensive starters.

(03-10-2023, 05:26 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Kinda hard to compare 24 years to 3 seasons.  Still lots of misses there and Pollack has not had a high draft choice as of yet.  The development hasnt been good but that list is a long time to hit on 9 guys with 7 of them being 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders.

It is hard to compare, having THAT many chances you better hit on some 1st and 2nd rounders. It is still up in the air with the
development of Carman and Volson, sure Price was a bust and Pollack picked him but a lot of us thought Price would of been 
much better than he was, maybe all of us.

(03-10-2023, 09:35 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I do too, and I expect him to make a huge leap this year. Now that he has a full year of play under his belt, and he is actually an NFL lineman that can take advantage of things like Big Willie's and other's services, along with another year of coaching from Pollack, I expect him to have a solid year.

Yes, I also see Cordell Volson making a huge leap in his sophomore year. He had some great tests as a rookie and passed as 
far as I am concerned for a 4th round pick, he was pretty solid. If he makes the leap along with Carman becoming at the very 
least a good depth piece I would say Pollack has done an okay job, we will see. Need to add a RT though no question.

(03-10-2023, 12:54 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: We three do. The expectation level is pretty high here. Volson was a 4th rounder and didn’t play a high level of competition. Once he got acclimated he did pretty good. We played several late games and playoff games without 3 OL starters. We won 10 games in a row. When we were healthy we were good not great. Many on here act like none of that matters. The first KC game with no sacks by Chris Jones or the rest of their DL was a dream or the Bills game. They are still demanding major FA signings despite what we need to do to keep Tee,Chase, and Joe. Much less many defensive starters.

It does matter, winning 10 games in a row with a 4th round rookie manning the starting LG spot next to a LT in Jonah who 
was clearly not playing his best. I credit a lot of Volson's good play to Karras, but he did pretty well all on his own for a 4th 
round rookie playing against the best. Love the nastiness Volson plays with at times. He likes to level people.

(03-10-2023, 05:26 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Kinda hard to compare 24 years to 3 seasons.  Still lots of misses there and Pollack has not had a high draft choice as of yet.  The development hasnt been good but that list is a long time to hit on 9 guys with 7 of them being 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders.

It's not 3 years though for Pollack, it's 8 including his time with DAL and NYJ.
He has 1 player to speak of, and that player had 1st-round talent.
Book's still open on Carman, Volson, and even Becton though, but no proven great OL draft picks yet in 8 seasons as an OL coach.

Maybe he needs another 1st rounder. That's what it seemed Alexander mostly needed (other than Ogbuehi).