(03-12-2023, 11:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Cap space will be needed most in 2-3 years when a Chase extension kicks in. Not now.

Many of our core guys are on rookie deals still.

The cap is  only going to go up by 32 million next season and 60 in 2025. They can afford to add more cap room to this season.

If the Bengals want Joe to take a sweetheart deal then they need to be aggressive in free agency and sign some quality players or resign their own. 

(03-13-2023, 12:40 AM)J24 Wrote: The cap is  only going to go up by 32 million next season and 60 in 2025. They can afford to add more cap room to this season.

If the Bengals want Joe to take a sweetheart deal then they need to be aggressive in free agency and sign some quality players or resign their own. 

There's virtually no chance they're going to spend a lot in free agency.

They generally only spend when their roster is bad. When it's good, they go conservative.

(03-13-2023, 12:44 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There's virtually no chance they're going to spend a lot in free agency.

They generally only spend when their roster is bad. When it's good, they go conservative.

Agreed but it's dumb as hell!

Here’s is a perspective on restructuring deals. And this shows how it works.
The #Browns restructuring Deshaun Watson's contract means his cap number for 2023 drops to $19.1M.

His cap numbers for the remaining years of the his contract are now...

- 2024: $64M
- 2025: $64M
- 2026: $64M

- 2027: $9M (void year)

(03-13-2023, 12:44 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There's virtually no chance they're going to spend a lot in free agency.

They generally only spend when their roster is bad. When it's good, they go conservative.

They spent last year... 

(03-10-2023, 03:48 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I keep seeing all these teams clearing cap by "restructuring" deals.

Why are the Bengals not doing this to some extent? If there were ever a time to try and clear cap space, you would think this would be it. Super Bowl window, QB still technically on his rookie deal, and one or two players away from a championship...

because they generally structure their contracts well so they dont have too...  

(03-13-2023, 10:57 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: They spent last year... 

The only free agents they signed were in the OL. And we were bad.

Every single year I see competitors that are over the cap and think they are in trouble, and the Bengals will have a big advantage in free agency. And every single year these competitors end up clearing cap space and get free agents.

Now the Browns? I thought they were dead in the water in terms of free agent signings. They were $14 million over the cap. But, they have managed to clear $36 million by restructuring the Watson deal. They are now free agent players.

"The Cleveland Browns have restructured the record-setting contract of quarterback Deshaun Watson, clearing $36 million in cap space ahead of free agency, a source told ESPN."

"Before restructuring Watson's deal, the Browns were roughly $14 million over the salary cap. Now, Cleveland has cap space heading into the free agency negotiating window."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35849938/source-browns-tweak-deshaun-watson-pact-36m-cap-space

(03-13-2023, 10:51 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Here’s is a perspective on restructuring deals. And this shows how it works.
The #Browns restructuring Deshaun Watson's contract means his cap number for 2023 drops to $19.1M.

His cap numbers for the remaining years of the his contract are now...

- 2024: $64M
- 2025: $64M
- 2026: $64M

- 2027: $9M (void year)

Yes. I was going to post this. Create cap space now, at the peril of later years.

(03-13-2023, 10:57 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: They spent last year... 

They had the worst offensive line in football. But, it wasn't a massive spending spree either.

They'll sign some free agents. I just wouldn't expect massive spending.

(03-13-2023, 11:44 AM)Nepa Wrote: Every single year I see competitors that are over the cap and think they are in trouble, and the Bengals will have a big advantage in free agency. And every single year these competitors end up clearing cap space and get free agents.

Now the Browns? I thought they were dead in the water in terms of free agent signings. They were $14 million over the cap. But, they have managed to clear $36 million by restructuring the Watson deal. They are now free agent players.

"The Cleveland Browns have restructured the record-setting contract of quarterback Deshaun Watson, clearing $36 million in cap space ahead of free agency, a source told ESPN."

"Before restructuring Watson's deal, the Browns were roughly $14 million over the salary cap. Now, Cleveland has cap space heading into the free agency negotiating window."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35849938/source-browns-tweak-deshaun-watson-pact-36m-cap-space

Kind of curious on how the Watson restructure works because the contract was all guaranteed. I thought a restructure converted money to bonus allowing the cap hit to be pushed to later years.

(03-13-2023, 11:45 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. I was going to post this. Create cap space now, at the peril of later years.

Is this following a possible strategy?  Clear cap space, win big now, and keep pushing the cap crunch down the road, and keep winning, and then, when it is finally time to pay the piper, clear all the cap and begin your rebuild.  

The fact that Cleveland can get free agents and win now is not a good thing for the Bengals. The same with the other competitors that are pushing the cap down the road to win now. Yes, eventually they will become the Rams and the Bucs and have to jettison good players, but in the meanwhile the Rams and the Bucs have won Super Bowls. 

Of course, I would prefer the level of KC dominance year after year, but they also lucked out with getting Mahomes under contract for ten years before QB salaries went through the roof.

(03-13-2023, 11:44 AM)Nepa Wrote: Every single year I see competitors that are over the cap and think they are in trouble, and the Bengals will have a big advantage in free agency. And every single year these competitors end up clearing cap space and get free agents.

Now the Browns? I thought they were dead in the water in terms of free agent signings. They were $14 million over the cap. But, they have managed to clear $36 million by restructuring the Watson deal. They are now free agent players.

"The Cleveland Browns have restructured the record-setting contract of quarterback Deshaun Watson, clearing $36 million in cap space ahead of free agency, a source told ESPN."

"Before restructuring Watson's deal, the Browns were roughly $14 million over the salary cap. Now, Cleveland has cap space heading into the free agency negotiating window."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35849938/source-browns-tweak-deshaun-watson-pact-36m-cap-space

The Browns were double screwed. No draft picks or cap room. They cleared some cap to help in free agency this year. The Browns are screwed as they have Myles Garrett and Nick Chubb to worry about too.

(03-13-2023, 11:47 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Kind of curious on how the Watson restructure works because the contract was all guaranteed. I thought a restructure converted money to bonus allowing the cap hit to be pushed to later years.

It does, they added a void year I believe while increasing his hit on some future years.

(03-13-2023, 11:55 AM)Nepa Wrote: Is this following a possible strategy?  Clear cap space, win big now, and keep pushing the cap crunch down the road, and keep winning, and then, when it is finally time to pay the piper, clear all the cap and begin your rebuild.  

The fact that Cleveland can get free agents and win now is not a good thing for the Bengals. The same with the other competitors that are pushing the cap down the road to win now. Yes, eventually they will become the Rams and the Bucs and have to jettison good players, but in the meanwhile the Rams and the Bucs have won Super Bowls. 

Of course, I would prefer the level of KC dominance year after year, but they also lucked out with getting Mahomes under contract for ten years before QB salaries went through the roof.

Dude, you are worried about the Browns? Why? 

Their defense was trash last year and they have the most expensive QB in the league who looked like ass when he came off of not playing for two years. 

The Browns are irrelevant and will be for the long, foreseeable future. 

(03-13-2023, 12:40 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Dude, you are worried about the Browns? Why? 

Their defense was trash last year and they have the most expensive QB in the league who looked like ass when he came off of not playing for two years. 

The Browns are irrelevant and will be for the long, foreseeable future. 

Yeah the Browns were screwed.  They were in that spot where they took a guy who wasn't "the guy" at #1 and then had to bring in an instant vet to try to reboot rather that giving the "not the guy" guy a big contract to do nothing.

the Buccaneers did it when they needed to replace Winston with Brady
the Rams did it when they needed to replace Goff with Stafford
the Broncos did it in an effort to replace a slew of QB misfires with Wilson
the Jets are trying to do it to replace Zac Wilson with Rodgers


sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but I feel like we're going to see more of these "all in on the vet" type moves as long as paying a middle of the pack QB $40+ million per year is standard.

(03-13-2023, 12:40 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Dude, you are worried about the Browns? Why? 

Their defense was trash last year and they have the most expensive QB in the league who looked like ass when he came off of not playing for two years. 

The Browns are irrelevant and will be for the long, foreseeable future. 

I like your optimism.

Why am I concerned about the Browns? They are in the Bengals division, beat the Bengals 5 of the last 6 meetings (including by 19 points in one game last year), before the Watson suspension the oddsmakers had the Browns positioned very highly (actually above the Bengals), and Watson now has the rust knocked off. 

I do hope you are correct, of course.

(03-13-2023, 11:55 AM)Nepa Wrote: Is this following a possible strategy?  Clear cap space, win big now, and keep pushing the cap crunch down the road, and keep winning, and then, when it is finally time to pay the piper, clear all the cap and begin your rebuild.  

The fact that Cleveland can get free agents and win now is not a good thing for the Bengals. The same with the other competitors that are pushing the cap down the road to win now. Yes, eventually they will become the Rams and the Bucs and have to jettison good players, but in the meanwhile the Rams and the Bucs have won Super Bowls. 

Of course, I would prefer the level of KC dominance year after year, but they also lucked out with getting Mahomes under contract for ten years before QB salaries went through the roof.

LOL. Cleveland never wins now. Spending an extra $10-20 million isn't the advantage that some think.

Just like the teams that spend the most in baseball don't always win.

Only 1 team wins a SB...and a bunch of teams create this cap space.

That said, there will be a point where the Bengals have weaknesses that need upgraded and I hope they're willing to spend. We will start losing our own free agents starting this year.

(03-13-2023, 11:47 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Kind of curious on how the Watson restructure works because the contract was all guaranteed. I thought a restructure converted money to bonus allowing the cap hit to be pushed to later years.

Depends.  A team has the option, without player consent, to convert salary to bonus.

So, if Watson was going to make $55 million this year, the Browns can convert that to a bonus, which would lower his cap hit.

I know these numbers are off, but I'll use even numbers.  It works like this:

2023 Salary - 60
2024 Salary - 60
2025 salary - 60
2026 Salary - 60

If they convert 2023, then his cap hit becomes 15 million and then the other years his cap hit would be 60 + 15 = 75 million since they spread out the 60 million over 4 years.

A player will NEVER complain about this because they get all that new bonus money immediately.

Interesting the Chiefs just signed OT Taylor to an 80 million contract. So teams do it too without restructuring.