(03-12-2023, 05:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: With Jamaal, Samaje and a talented rookie like Gibbs or Spears we could have one heck of a RB room. I also like Trayveon.

It's also an addition by subtraction move.

Williams pass blocking grades over the last 2 years - 72.3, 70.4 to Mixon's - 38.1, 31.5.

Plus, if Williams cost 4m tops, you're still saving 3.3m by adding him and cutting Mixon.

(03-12-2023, 05:36 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's also an addition by subtraction move.

Williams pass blocking grades over the last 2 years - 72.3, 70.4 to Mixon's - 38.1, 31.5.

Plus, if Williams cost 4m tops, you're still saving 3.3m by adding him and cutting Mixon.

That's the type of positive personnel change that many of us are looking for the Bengals to execute in order to keep Joe and the receivers together as long as possible.  Now, they just need to get a couple of our defensive starters re-signed..

(03-12-2023, 03:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is a big maybe now with what Holic said about Jamaal's pass blocking. LOL

I knew i should have Inb4'd.  

Lions OL is good and he only had a 4.1 YPC last year. Out of 41 RBs with at least 100 carries last year, he was 29th in YPC. His backup had 99 carries at 5.5 YPC.

Williams has a career average of 4.0 YPC. In Green Bay he had a career average of 4.0 YPC. In Detroit he had a career average of 4.0 YPC. He had under 3.8 YPC in 8 of his final 10 games.

What's the odds he actually improves (or even maintains his subpar level) going from Detroit's OL to the Bengals OL?

(03-12-2023, 05:01 PM)pulses Wrote: He DOESN"T have lots of mileage that's where you're mistaken.

Okay, fine. Upon further review I think it might be a good acquisition at the right price. 

(03-12-2023, 05:36 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's also an addition by subtraction move.

Williams pass blocking grades over the last 2 years - 72.3, 70.4 to Mixon's - 38.1, 31.5.

Plus, if Williams cost 4m tops, you're still saving 3.3m by adding him and cutting Mixon.

No brainer, let's do this.

(03-12-2023, 05:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's the type of positive personnel change that many of us are looking for the Bengals to execute in order to keep Joe and the receivers together as long as possible.  Now, they just need to get a couple of our defensive starters re-signed..

I would do it for the pass protection alone.

(03-12-2023, 06:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lions OL is good and he only had a 4.1 YPC last year. Out of 41 RBs with at least 100 carries last year, he was 29th in YPC. His backup had 99 carries at 5.5 YPC.

Williams has a career average of 4.0 YPC. In Green Bay he had a career average of 4.0 YPC. In Detroit he had a career average of 4.0 YPC. He had under 3.8 YPC in 8 of his final 10 games.

What's the odds he actually improves (or even maintains his subpar level) going from Detroit's OL to the Bengals OL?

Depends on how much we improve the OL, Carman and Volson can still get better, Karras and Cappa with another year gaining
chemistry could get better together. We should bring in another RT. If La'el heals up he is a good run blocker etc.

I would add Jamaal for pass protection alone. This is the most important thing we need in our RB's.

(03-12-2023, 06:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Depends on how much we improve the OL, Carman and Volson can still get better, Karras and Cappa with another year gaining
chemistry could get better together. We should bring in another RT. If La'el heals up he is a good run blocker etc.

I would add Jamaal for pass protection alone. This is the most important thing we need in our RB's.

Not sure how much improvement would be needed to get the Bengals OL up to the Lions OL level. Probably more than possible without widespread replacements.

If you are signing a guy for pass protection alone with no consideration to running or pass catching, you might as well just use a FB (or hell, an undersized OL playing "FB") full time with no RB. I would put very good odds that Williams has a YPC below 4.0 with the Bengals and his pass catching has been 6.5 avg or less 3 of the last 4 years and he had 3 drops on 16 targets last year. 

Jamaal Williams just sure feels like it would be BJGE pt2.

(03-12-2023, 06:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No brainer, let's do this.


I would do it for the pass protection alone.


Depends on how much we improve the OL, Carman and Volson can still get better, Karras and Cappa with another year gaining
chemistry could get better together. We should bring in another RT. If La'el heals up he is a good run blocker etc.

I would add Jamaal for pass protection alone. This is the most important thing we need in our RB's.

Passpro is the most important thing we need for Oline but 4.6 is the most important thing we need for the RBs. 

(03-12-2023, 07:00 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not sure how much improvement would be needed to get the Bengals OL up to the Lions OL level. Probably more than possible without widespread replacements.

If you are signing a guy for pass protection alone with no consideration to running or pass catching, you might as well just use a FB (or hell, an undersized OL playing "FB") full time with no RB. I would put very good odds that Williams has a YPC below 4.0 with the Bengals and his pass catching has been 6.5 avg or less 3 of the last 4 years and he had 3 drops on 16 targets last year. 

Jamaal Williams just sure feels like it would be BJGE pt2.

All things considered, i'd be fine with a Perine/Trayveon Williams/Draft pick RBBC. But i would have Williams and Evans split a bunch of snaps to see who wins out.

This guy has a very big personality.

We could be his new girlfriend:

(03-12-2023, 07:00 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not sure how much improvement would be needed to get the Bengals OL up to the Lions OL level. Probably more than possible without widespread replacements.

If you are signing a guy for pass protection alone with no consideration to running or pass catching, you might as well just use a FB (or hell, an undersized OL playing "FB") full time with no RB. I would put very good odds that Williams has a YPC below 4.0 with the Bengals and his pass catching has been 6.5 avg or less 3 of the last 4 years and he had 3 drops on 16 targets last year. 

Jamaal Williams just sure feels like it would be BJGE pt2.

Eh, 4.0 YPC is better than what a FB or an undersized OL would average with us I am sure. Jamaal Williams is more explosive than
BJGE by a large margin and scores a lot of TD's which matters more than about anything else.

(03-12-2023, 08:37 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Passpro is the most important thing we need for Oline but 4.6 is the most important thing we need for the RBs. 

(03-12-2023, 08:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: All things considered, i'd be fine with a Perine/Trayveon Williams/Draft pick RBBC. But i would have Williams and Evans split a bunch of snaps to see who wins out.

Cannot disagree Rfaulk. Would be for just bringing Perine back and drafting an explosive RB that can pass block. Roschon Johnson
or Chase Brown would be great. Still, have to go off of where we show interest and Jamaal Williams pass blocks well and scores TD's.

Sign me up for those things.

(03-13-2023, 01:59 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, 4.0 YPC is better than what a FB or an undersized OL would average with us I am sure. Jamaal Williams is more explosive than
BJGE by a large margin and scores a lot of TD's which matters more than about anything else.

4.0 YPC is what he did behind a GREAT OL. The Lions by a couple different sources had the 3rd best OL in football.

The Bengals OL is much much worse, so you can't expect Williams to keep being even the bad 4.0 YPC behind it.

Jamaal Williams had only 4 rushes of 20+ yards last year. The same amount as Joe Mixon, but it took 52 more carries. In 4 of his 6 seasons, he didn't have a single rush over 25 yards.

If you want to talk about scoring TDs which matters more than about anything else, I will point to you 2015 Jeremy Hill. He led the league in rushing TDs while rushing for 3.6 YPC. Just because you're given a lot of goal opportunities doesn't mean you're personally the reason for said touchdowns, or that you are good. I will also point to 2021 James Connor scoring 15 rushing TDs at 3.7 YPC or 2016 LeGarrette Blount with 18 rushing TDs at 3.9 YPC. Some guys are just on an offense that gives them a lot of opportunities for goalline carries.

(03-13-2023, 02:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 4.0 YPC is what he did behind a GREAT OL. The Lions by a couple different sources had the 3rd best OL in football.

The Bengals OL is much much worse, so you can't expect Williams to keep being even the bad 4.0 YPC behind it.

Jamaal Williams had only 4 rushes of 20+ yards last year. The same amount as Joe Mixon, but it took 52 more carries. In 4 of his 6 seasons, he didn't have a single rush over 25 yards.

If you want to talk about scoring TDs which matters more than about anything else, I will point to you 2015 Jeremy Hill. He led the league in rushing TDs while rushing for 3.6 YPC. Just because you're given a lot of goal opportunities doesn't mean you're personally the reason for said touchdowns, or that you are good. I will also point to 2021 James Connor scoring 15 rushing TDs at 3.7 YPC or 2016 LeGarrette Blount with 18 rushing TDs at 3.9 YPC. Some guys are just on an offense that gives them a lot of opportunities for goalline carries.

All good points. When our OL was starting to gel and was healthy they were blocking very well in the running game. Look at the 
Panthers game and tell me that doesn't get you a bit excited about the potential of this OL if they are healthy this year. Just sucks 
right after that LC got injured and now we have to add a new RT. 

All I know is bringing in Jamaal Williams is good insurance in case the Draft doesn't fall the way we want. Plus it confirms we are
going to cut Mixon and that frees up money. I also like your thought about D'Ernest Johnson or Justice Hill Dax's bro if they can 
pass block, but if they can't, I don't want them either.

(03-13-2023, 02:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All good points. When our OL was starting to gel and was healthy they were blocking very well in the running game. Look at the 
Panthers game and tell me that doesn't get you a bit excited about the potential of this OL if they are healthy this year. Just sucks 
right after that LC got injured and now we have to add a new RT. 

All I know is bringing in Jamaal Williams is good insurance in case the Draft doesn't fall the way we want. Plus it confirms we are
going to cut Mixon and that frees up money. I also like your thought about D'Ernest Johnson or Justice Hill Dax's bro if they can 
pass block, but if they can't, I don't want them either.

There's always 1 or 2 fluke games in a year...
-The game before that Panthers game they rushed for 3.6 YPC
-The game after the Panthers game they rushed for 2.6 YPC
....All 5 starters played in both of those games.

In 2021, Mixon had a 2 game span where he had 288 rushing yards at 5.0 YPC. The 2 games before that he averaged 3.6 YPC, and the 2 games after that he averaged 3.0 YPC.

In 2020, Mixon had a 6.0 YPC game against the Jags. The game before it he was at 2.9 YPC, and the game after he was at 2.5 YPC.

There's always a fluke game or two each year. One tree in an otherwise empty field doesn't mean it's going to become a forest.

Williams is a great locker room guy too. If it weren't for the injury history, I'd rather have DeAndre Swift from that team though. He's what the Bengals offense is missing.

(03-13-2023, 02:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's always 1 or 2 fluke games in a year...
-The game before that Panthers game they rushed for 3.6 YPC
-The game after the Panthers game they rushed for 2.6 YPC
....All 5 starters played in both of those games.

In 2021, Mixon had a 2 game span where he had 288 rushing yards at 5.0 YPC. The 2 games before that he averaged 3.6 YPC, and the 2 games after that he averaged 3.0 YPC.

In 2020, Mixon had a 6.0 YPC game against the Jags. The game before it he was at 2.9 YPC, and the game after he was at 2.5 YPC.

There's always a fluke game or two each year. One tree in an otherwise empty field doesn't mean it's going to become a forest.

I don't believe in flukes, tend to believe that was more of the new OL coming together than anything. The Panthers weren't a bad
run stopping team either before that. Perine had a few nice games as well before LC went down. We will see if we sign Jamaal.

I have spoke on why I am not against bringing in Jamaal Williams.

(03-13-2023, 02:47 PM)jason Wrote: Williams is a great locker room guy too. If it weren't for the injury history, I'd rather have DeAndre Swift from that team though. He's what the Bengals offense is missing.

True, also really like Swift if he could get healthy, great talent.

Everyone's over here thinking Jamaal Williams would be a Mixon replacement, but what if he's envisioned to be the Perine replacement?

(03-13-2023, 02:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All good points. When our OL was starting to gel and was healthy they were blocking very well in the running game. Look at the 
Panthers game and tell me that doesn't get you a bit excited about the potential of this OL if they are healthy this year. Just sucks 
right after that LC got injured and now we have to add a new RT. 

All I know is bringing in Jamaal Williams is good insurance in case the Draft doesn't fall the way we want. Plus it confirms we are
going to cut Mixon and that frees up money. I also like your thought about D'Ernest Johnson or Justice Hill Dax's bro if they can 
pass block, but if they can't, I don't want them either.

I don't know why you keep harping on every back needs to be good at passpro. You need a guy or a couple guys that can get at least 4.6 per carry to have a decent run game. If you have guys that do 3.8-4.1 then you're in 3rd and distance too much and you have to have a good blocking RB...but why would you want to start with that? It doesn't make sense. The blocking part is important but it's nohwere near as important as what they do carrying the ball. That's their main job, not blocking. 

(03-13-2023, 04:06 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Everyone's over here thinking Jamaal Williams would be a Mixon replacement, but what if he's envisioned to be the Perine replacement?

Or our Jerrick McKinnon on passing downs while we Draft a top talent early? Still want to keep Samaje around.

(03-13-2023, 04:17 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't know why you keep harping on every back needs to be good at passpro. You need a guy or a couple guys that can get at least 4.6 per carry to have a decent run game. If you have guys that do 3.8-4.1 then you're in 3rd and distance too much and you have to have a good blocking RB...but why would you want to start with that? It doesn't make sense. The blocking part is important but it's nohwere near as important as what they do carrying the ball. That's their main job, not blocking. 

Because we are a passing Offense, that's why. Would rather have a RB that is a great runner and pass blocker of course.

It doesn't matter what RB we get if Burrow gets took out.