Let's look into KC at this juncture of the off season.

Have 1 starting OT, but 1 signed elsewhere and other unsigned (Brown)
Lost JuJu - arguably their best WR to Pats
Cut their best pass rushing DE (Clark) due to cap issues

Did I miss something or has KC improved their roster from 2022 or worse at this early juncture of the off season?

(03-15-2023, 07:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Let's look into KC at this juncture of the off season.

Have 1 starting OT, but 1 signed elsewhere and other unsigned (Brown)
Lost JuJu - arguably their best WR to Pats
Cut their best pass rushing DE (Clark) due to cap issues

Did I miss something or has KC improved their roster from 2022 or worse at this early juncture of the off season?

The Eagles are shedding guys as well. 

Thornhill gets a deal actually larger than Bell. Little surprised there.

(03-15-2023, 06:07 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Updated NEEDS with Eli back.

Tier 1: Immediate Starter needed: TE, FS, PR
Tier 2: First Reserve needed: OG, TE, RB
Tier 3: Future Issues Looming: OT, WR
Tier 4: Starter upgrade: P
Tier 5: Last man upgrade/open: QB, WR, TE, OT, OG, DE, DT, CB

I agree with much of your list of hierarchy of of needs, but I want to differ with you where you have CB listed.

You realize that the Bengals have been riding with mediocre CBs that can play well enough in Anarumo's system, due to having experienced, smart play from a pair of veteran Safeties, right?

With the Bengals potentially plugging in a pair of second year guys, neither of which did anything noteworthy in their rookie years at the position, those CBs are going to be on their own.  This is the time that the Bengals either need to bring in a top tier FS (as you have listed), or plan on drafting CB with a high draft pick.  The reason I say this is because Eli Apple isn't going to be the same guy out there without Jesse Bates wiping his butt for him.

I'm I still supposed to be impressed with Dukes plan?

(03-15-2023, 07:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree with much of your list of hierarchy of of needs, but I want to differ with you where you have CB listed.

You realize that the Bengals have been riding with mediocre CBs that can play well enough in Anarumo's system, due to having experienced, smart play from a pair of veteran Safeties, right?

With the Bengals potentially plugging in a pair of second year guys, neither of which did anything noteworthy in their rookie years at the position, those CBs are going to be on their own.  This is the time that the Bengals either need to bring in a top tier FS (as you have listed), or plan on drafting CB with a high draft pick.  The reason I say this is because Eli Apple isn't going to be the same guy out there without Jesse Bates wiping his butt for him.

We played plenty of single high coverage with Apple on an island last year. There wasn’t this massive cover job by the safeties for Apple, he simply has played pretty well the last couple years.

(03-15-2023, 07:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree with much of your list of hierarchy of of needs, but I want to differ with you where you have CB listed.

You realize that the Bengals have been riding with mediocre CBs that can play well enough in Anarumo's system, due to having experienced, smart play from a pair of veteran Safeties, right?

With the Bengals potentially plugging in a pair of second year guys, neither of which did anything noteworthy in their rookie years at the position, those CBs are going to be on their own.  This is the time that the Bengals either need to bring in a top tier FS (as you have listed), or plan on drafting CB with a high draft pick.  The reason I say this is because Eli Apple isn't going to be the same guy out there without Jesse Bates wiping his butt for him.

I flat out do not buy the idea that Bates & Bell covered up for Chido, Apple, Hilton, and CTB being awful. The grading of the players does not bear that out. 

Chido & Hilton graded out better than Bell last year. 

(03-15-2023, 08:15 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I flat out do not buy the idea that Bates & Bell covered up for Chido, Apple, Hilton, and CTB being awful. The grading of the players does not bear that out. 

Chido & Hilton graded out better than Bell last year. 

All the better safeties that are still FA's graded higher than Bell last year except Johnson III and he was playing out of position.

(03-15-2023, 08:15 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I flat out do not buy the idea that Bates & Bell covered up for Chido, Apple, Hilton, and CTB being awful. The grading of the players does not bear that out. 

Chido & Hilton graded out better than Bell last year. 

That idea becomes more believable when you begin to understand that those were the leaders in the DB room, the ones calling the shots, putting the other guys at ease.  If you can't see that part of their value, then I'm not sure how to communicate it to you.  That's just what I have been able to infer from listening to Anarumo.

(03-15-2023, 08:15 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I flat out do not buy the idea that Bates & Bell covered up for Chido, Apple, Hilton, and CTB being awful. The grading of the players does not bear that out. 

Chido & Hilton graded out better than Bell last year. 

 Apple graded a 52.9 and CTB graded a 56.1 so they did help some.

(03-15-2023, 08:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That idea becomes more believable when you begin to understand that those were the leaders in the DB room, the ones calling the shots, putting the other guys at ease.  If you can't see that part of their value, then I'm not sure how to communicate it to you.  That's just what I have been able to infer from listening to Anarumo.

This!!!  Veteran leadership in the locker room.

(03-15-2023, 08:21 PM)pulses Wrote: This!!!  Veteran leadership in the locker room.

Mike Hilton, Awuzie, Pratt, Reader…

We have veteran leadership and we have it in the DB room as well. Not saying they weren’t needed for that at the time but at this point I don’t think we lack it either.

Bell was never the communicator, it was Bates in the backend. We have known we were losing Bates for a while now and it feels like people are trying to put more of Bates into Bell than us there. Bell was a veteran who picked up a system just like the next guy who comes in. We are asking Hill to ascend like we asked Bates to in his second year here.

(03-15-2023, 08:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: Mike Hilton, Awuzie, Pratt, Reader…

We have veteran leadership and we have it in the DB room as well. Not saying they weren’t needed for that at the time but at this point I don’t think we lack it either.

Bell was never the communicator, it was Bates in the backend. We have known we were losing Bates for a while now and it feels like people are trying to put more of Bates into Bell than us there. Bell was a veteran who picked up a system just like the next guy who comes in. We are asking Hill to ascend like we asked Bates to in his second year here.

And I think Dax will be up for the challenge.

(03-15-2023, 07:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Let's look into KC at this juncture of the off season.

Have 1 starting OT, but 1 signed elsewhere and other unsigned (Brown)
Lost JuJu - arguably their best WR to Pats
Cut their best pass rushing DE (Clark) due to cap issues

Did I miss something or has KC improved their roster from 2022 or worse at this early juncture of the off season?

Two new players the Chiefs brought in:
The Chiefs have reached an agreement with former Jaguars Jawaan Taylor on a four-year, 80 million-dollar deal.  Will replace Brown as starting OT.

Charles Omenihu, Defensive lineman, formerly of 49ers.

But, in comparison, the Bengals have not signed any new players, just shed players. So, I don't know if the question is whether the Chiefs are better than they were last year, but how are they relative to the Bengals after the changes.

(03-15-2023, 08:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That idea becomes more believable when you begin to understand that those were the leaders in the DB room, the ones calling the shots, putting the other guys at ease.  If you can't see that part of their value, then I'm not sure how to communicate it to you.  That's just what I have been able to infer from listening to Anarumo.

Hilton and Awuzie arexalso leaders in the room. If you don't get that, I don't know how to explain it to you. 

PFF last two years: 

1) Awuzie: 83.3, 69.9: 76.6 AVG.
2) Hilton: 72.3, 73.4: 72.85 AVG
3) Bell: 74.2, 66.3: 70.2 AVG. 
4) Bates: 56.1, 76.8: 66.45 AVG.  

Awuzie & Hilton grade out BETTER than Bates & Bell. 

(03-15-2023, 09:09 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Hilton and Awuzie arexalso leaders in the room. If you don't get that, I don't know how to explain it to you. 

PFF last two years: 

1) Awuzie: 83.3, 69.9: 76.6 AVG.
2) Hilton: 72.3, 73.4: 72.85 AVG
3) Bell: 74.2, 66.3: 70.2 AVG. 
4) Bates: 56.1, 76.8: 66.45 AVG.  

Awuzie & Hilton grade out BETTER than Bates & Bell. 

What is this two year average?  You want to skew numbers to make your point, that is fine, but if you are going to use stats in that fashion it should likely be lifetime or at least a listing to show upward or downward trend.  

However, I'm willing to bet that the CB numbers drop this season, completely due to a change in Safeties.

(03-15-2023, 08:57 PM)Nepa Wrote: Two new players the Chiefs brought in:
The Chiefs have reached an agreement with former Jaguars Jawaan Taylor on a four-year, 80 million-dollar deal.  Will replace Brown as starting OT.

Charles Omenihu, Defensive lineman, formerly of 49ers.

But, in comparison, the Bengals have not signed any new players, just shed players. So, I don't know if the question is whether the Chiefs are better than they were last year, but how are they relative to the Bengals after the changes.

There's a whole lot of off-season left before it matters in regards to which team got better/worse. 

(03-15-2023, 08:57 PM)Nepa Wrote: Two new players the Chiefs brought in:
The Chiefs have reached an agreement with former Jaguars Jawaan Taylor on a four-year, 80 million-dollar deal.  Will replace Brown as starting OT.

Charles Omenihu, Defensive lineman, formerly of 49ers.

But, in comparison, the Bengals have not signed any new players, just shed players. So, I don't know if the question is whether the Chiefs are better than they were last year, but how are they relative to the Bengals after the changes.

They traded Omenihu for Clark? I say Clark is better.
They traded Brown for Taylor, Brown is an all pro while Taylor is not. Wylie, starting RT is gone. JuJu their #1 WR is gone.

Come on man, noone would say Chiefs have upgraded anything, un fact they are worse as also just lost a starting Safety too.

My guess is Chiefs fans are not gloom and doom, even with a lot less cap left than us.

(03-15-2023, 10:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: They traded Omenihu for Clark? I say Clark is better.
They traded Brown for Taylor, Brown is an all pro while Taylor is not. Wylie, starting RT is gone. JuJu their #1 WR is gone.

Come on man, noone would say Chiefs have upgraded anything, un fact they are worse as also just lost a starting Safety too.

My guess is Chiefs fans are not gloom and doom, even with a lot less cap left than us.

Of course. And no one, to my knowledge, is saying the Chiefs have upgraded so far this free-agency period.  I was simply fleshing out your observation.

I understand some impatience, among Bengals fans, of course. Last year, there was an agreement announced with Cappa literally one-minute into the tampering period. (Announced at 12:01 on March 14, with the tampering period beginning at 12 noon on the same day; the actually signings could not take place until noon on March 16). 

Kappa was announced just one and half-hours later. (March 14).

So, I certainly understand if Bengals fans are anxious, especially after having lost their two starting safeties, as they watch reports of signings. The last two free-agent periods were extraordinary for Bengals fans. Some may have been spoiled by those riches and worry that the Bengals will slip back to the days when free agency and Bengals were like oil and water.

The Bengals will solve this. I'm looking forward to signings in coming days, and hoping starting tomorrow. 

Again…Vonn Bell was signed a week after free agency opened. This thing isn’t over a few days in.