(03-17-2023, 01:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Former first round pick that was tops of his class, that is still young and when healthy is a top 10 LT.

He has lots of value for any team that needs a LT. Cutting him doesn't save us any money, we picked up the option...

No.

(03-17-2023, 01:47 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I think he finished 11th best LT in 2021 in terms of pff grades at LT

He gave up the 6th most pressures and 2nd most sacks. 

If he was 11th best that year, my ass was 12th best.

(03-17-2023, 02:49 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I believe there is a legit argument of chemistry for new line ups across your O line which is why I totally disagreed with the starters not playing in the preseason. However, how long is this excuse valid?  I believe after the equivalent of the preseason has been met that you need to see legit improvement. When you watch Volson thru the season you saw incremental improvement as the weeks went on. I can't say that I saw improvement with Jonah. Was it the bad knees? Maybe it was but again if you are not available then you are not valuable.

As I stated in another thread. Jonah is not the worst OT in the league but he is what he is. He will never have the true natural power to sit down and anchor and his technique has never been truly sound enough to make up for that lack of raw power. More than Jonah being average is Jonah not living up to the draft billing and I was a fan of the selection when they made it.

Jonah may be more athletic than Brown but you can improve the technique of Brown to help him with speed by altering his kick step and so forth and/or improving initial punch technique to get defender off balance with the raw power Brown has. You cannot teach natural power and anchor to Jonah.

it was clearly the dislocated knee. His play in 2021 and 2020 was better than 2022.

It's not even a maybe. 

(03-17-2023, 02:53 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He gave up the 6th most pressures and 2nd most sacks. 

If he was 11th best that year, my ass was 12th best.

he gave up the 6th most sacks in 2021, not 2nd most. You dont even know the facts.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/jonah-williams/41651?season=2021

and that 2021 grade is better than Orlando Brown's best year. All Im saying

(03-17-2023, 02:37 PM)Housh Wrote: I didn’t expect there to be interest

Honestly this is such a great position

Now we can be cheap with our cap and it’s not our fault. There was really no reason to cut him before this request. It would’ve just been a cap move to save money.


I was also one that advocates to try and get extra picks in this draft even if it meant trading out of number 28.



Getting a 3rd round comp pick and an extra 3rd or 4th would help us so much.

How would we save money cutting Jonah?

(03-17-2023, 02:57 PM)casear2727 Wrote: How would we save money cutting Jonah?

Good question, only costs us 12.6 mil against the cap and we somehow are saving money lol

(03-17-2023, 02:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If a team is willing to give up even a 7th rounder, that's $12.6 mill in cap that is freed up.
Hell, I'd give a team a 7th rounder to take that. I don't even need a draft pick in compensation.

A 7th rounder for a realtivetly cheap LT with the potential to be above average? 

Bruh.

(03-17-2023, 02:57 PM)casear2727 Wrote: How would we save money cutting Jonah?

It wouldn't. Some people on here have no idea what they are talking about. 

(03-17-2023, 02:53 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He gave up the 6th most pressures and 2nd most sacks. 

If he was 11th best that year, my ass was 12th best.

I believe he was the 11th best pass blocker and that was due to pass block win rate. Which essential tries to tell us because he had 150 more pass block snaps that high amount of pressures and his high pressure to sack conversion rate matter a ton less than it should. 

Id rather balance it. I get the pass block win rate but if the player is also giving up an large amount of negative plays for a season we have an issue. I would have given him an Average Pass blocker grade than a high one in 2021 and couple that with a below average run blocking grade you have a mediocre year at LT. 

I think people are hating on Jonah a bit too much. Having said that I don't think his level of play was where his next contract will be radically effected by playing RT this year. I'm fine either way if we can talk him into playing RT this year I'll be excited. If we trade him for something decent and get a RT in the 1st I'd be happy.

We are not gonna get much for Jonah in a trade. I'd be stunned if we got a 3rd rounder.

However, his real value is in going away andleaving us with $12.6 mil in cap room. We can sign two pretty good players for that. One REALLY good one.

I think the type of pressures matter. I think Jonah is over hated here and isn't as bad as a lot of people think, but my main issue with him is when he got beat, a lot of times it was from the inside, or he got ran over by a bullrush. Burrow cannot step up into the pocket with pressure like that. Brown meanwhile is too big and strong to be beat inside or to get bull rushed. So, the only way you beat him is around the edge, but QBs with good pocket presence (Like Burrow) can step up to avoid that.

I think also playing for the Chiefs actually hurt Brown a bit because their system, and how deep Mahomes drops back makes their OTs job harder. Burrow doesn't drop back as deep which helps our tackles a bit. I think that is the reason Carmen seemed to look good at OT last season. He is big and strong so DEs had to go around him which Burrow was able to step up away from.

In short, I think Brown will fit our offense better than he did the Chiefs, he will also help our run game which is nice. But Jonah isn't as trash as people think, he could get more interest than you think.

(03-17-2023, 03:12 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We are not gonna get much for Jonah in a trade. I'd be stunned if we got a 3rd rounder.

However, his real value is in going away andleaving us with $12.6 mil in cap room. We can sign two pretty good players for that. One REALLY good one.

Yeah, a trade benefits us no matter what honestly.

It is okay, a 4th rounder is just fine, I don't care. It frees up money and Jonah can go be a LT somewhere else.

(03-17-2023, 03:12 PM)Garrus Wrote: I think the type of pressures matter. I think Jonah is over hated here and isn't as bad as a lot of people think, but my main issue with him is when he got beat, a lot of times it was from the inside, or he got ran over by a bullrush. Burrow cannot step up into the pocket with pressure like that. Brown meanwhile is too big and strong to be beat inside or to get bull rushed. So, the only way you beat him is around the edge, but QBs with good pocket presence (Like Burrow) can step up to avoid that.

I think also playing for the Chiefs actually hurt Brown a bit because their system, and how deep Mahomes drops back makes their OTs job harder. Burrow doesn't drop back as deep which helps our tackles a bit. I think that is the reason Carmen seemed to look good at OT last season. He is big and strong so DEs had to go around him which Burrow was able to step up away from.

In short, I think Brown will fit our offense better than he did the Chiefs, he will also help our run game which is nice. But Jonah isn't as trash as people think, he could get more interest than you think.

Nice post Garrus. Brown does seem to fit with what you say here much better than Jonah. Carman could end up being good at RT.

I know he sucked at Guard but that may just be because he likes it better on the edge and doesn't like being in the interior.

Sure hope so, if we have the Tackles for the future along with the interior solid we will be tough to beat with Burrow. Orlando will 
have to get used to some of the Burrow magic though, but hey, like you said he had a bit of that with Mahomes too, so he may be 
prepared as much as any LT to play with Burrow.

(03-17-2023, 01:48 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: No, he had one & played through it. Then he did the other one and was out. 

Yeah, 1+1 = 2. He was out after the 2nd one, but unless you just think it was pure coincidence both kneecaps dislocated in the same season, he has something wrong with his knees. 

(03-17-2023, 11:47 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...I guess he's not too keen on switching positions.

Wonder if we could get a 3rd Round pick for him?

1 year of a league-leading sack allower at $12.6m, coming off a knee surgery for two knee dislocations....

If they get offered a 3rd, they need to find a supersonic flight there so they can't change their mind. Lol

(03-17-2023, 03:12 PM)Garrus Wrote: I think the type of pressures matter. I think Jonah is over hated here and isn't as bad as a lot of people think, but my main issue with him is when he got beat, a lot of times it was from the inside, or he got ran over by a bullrush. Burrow cannot step up into the pocket with pressure like that. Brown meanwhile is too big and strong to be beat inside or to get bull rushed. So, the only way you beat him is around the edge, but QBs with good pocket presence (Like Burrow) can step up to avoid that.

I think also playing for the Chiefs actually hurt Brown a bit because their system, and how deep Mahomes drops back makes their OTs job harder. Burrow doesn't drop back as deep which helps our tackles a bit. I think that is the reason Carmen seemed to look good at OT last season. He is big and strong so DEs had to go around him which Burrow was able to step up away from.

In short, I think Brown will fit our offense better than he did the Chiefs, he will also help our run game which is nice. But Jonah isn't as trash as people think, he could get more interest than you think.

I don’t hate Jonah but I do think they made a major upgrade to the line by replacing him. I’d be all for letting him compete for RT but the Bengals clearly knew he wasn’t happy about that before the Brown trade. Carman handled the left edge well in two big games and he’s a mauler when motivated. I bet he plays RT next season. Just hope the Bengals can get some preseason snaps for the starting line.

(03-17-2023, 03:18 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, 1+1 = 2. He was out after the 2nd one, but unless you just think it was pure coincidence both kneecaps dislocated in the same season, he has something wrong with his knees. 

You made it sound like he was playing on two dislocated kneecaps. At least to me. That never happened. Apologize if I got the wrong drift, there.

I give Jonah a ton of credit for battling through that last year. It helped us and hurt him. It obviously hindered him last year. 

Sounds like Pollack reached out to him. Maybe this all blows over. Two weeks ago Pollack said it would be rough for Jonah to move to RT. Now he thinks he can do it no problem. How times change. 

The kneecaps dislocated first one then the other. He had this issue most of the games he played. And this type of injury is problematic for a lineman because it directly hampers their ability to anchor. This is why Jonah who in prior seasons was able to handle power rushes suddenly could not hold his point.

(03-17-2023, 03:51 PM)Joelist Wrote: The kneecaps dislocated first one then the other. He had this issue most of the games he played. And this type of injury is problematic for a lineman because it directly hampers their ability to anchor. This is why Jonah who in prior seasons was able to handle power rushes suddenly could not hold his point.

Did Jonah put on more weight this year?  Maybe that took a toll on his knees.