I just saw an interesting scenario and the question was could the relationship with McVay be a road to swinging a trade with the Rams of Jonah Williams for the 77th overall selection? They have 12 selections in the '23 draft and #77 would be their second of two selections in the 3rd round. Could be a great scenario for both organizations.

(03-17-2023, 04:13 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I just saw an interesting scenario and the question was could the relationship with McVay be a road to swinging a trade with the Rams of Jonah Williams for the 77th overall selection? They have 12 selections in the '23 draft and #77 would be their second of two selections in the 3rd round. Could be a great scenario for both organizations.

Sure it could great intel there Wolverinefan

(03-17-2023, 03:51 PM)Joelist Wrote: The kneecaps dislocated first one then the other. He had this issue most of the games he played. And this type of injury is problematic for a lineman because it directly hampers their ability to anchor. This is why Jonah who in prior seasons was able to handle power rushes suddenly could not hold his point.

Oddly in seasons prior I don't recall Jonah ever standing out as anchoring against power rushers. Maybe I missed that but to my knowledge this has never been considered a real strength of his. He just is not a naturally powerful OT. That is not a knock on him just how it is. He is much more a finesse OT than he is a power OT.

I dont care if its a 4th or 5th rounder. Trade the dude. His money could be used better elsewhere.

We're getting a 3rd rounder at best, don't see any team throwing away a 2rd rounder for Jonah. Also don't think he'll play OG because it'd make him receive less money since OTs usually get more money.

(03-17-2023, 03:12 PM)Garrus Wrote: I think the type of pressures matter. I think Jonah is over hated here and isn't as bad as a lot of people think, but my main issue with him is when he got beat, a lot of times it was from the inside, or he got ran over by a bullrush. Burrow cannot step up into the pocket with pressure like that. Brown meanwhile is too big and strong to be beat inside or to get bull rushed. So, the only way you beat him is around the edge, but QBs with good pocket presence (Like Burrow) can step up to avoid that.

I think also playing for the Chiefs actually hurt Brown a bit because their system, and how deep Mahomes drops back makes their OTs job harder. Burrow doesn't drop back as deep which helps our tackles a bit. I think that is the reason Carmen seemed to look good at OT last season. He is big and strong so DEs had to go around him which Burrow was able to step up away from.

In short, I think Brown will fit our offense better than he did the Chiefs, he will also help our run game which is nice. But Jonah isn't as trash as people think, he could get more interest than you think.

Great perspective! What you are saying also fits why so many KC fans are bashing Brown (other than having their asses chapped by losing him). Mahomes and QBs that play like him can be difficult to protect because you never know where they are. While Burrow has good feet and movement he does not have happy feet and does not just bounce around in the pocket in the manner that Mahomes does.

I'm okay with this.

I like the move overall to larger, more powerful offensive lineman.

Jonah was always looked at as more of a technician. But I was never sure if he'd be big enough to hold up and he hasn't ever held up to the elite rushers.

I think the bigger lineman will translate to a better run game and overall more effective line.

Obviously freeing up his salary would benefit us, but I'm not sure how much we would be required to keep on our cap.

(03-17-2023, 04:22 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I'm okay with this.

I like the move overall to larger, more powerful offensive lineman.

Jonah was always looked at as more of a technician. But I was never sure if he'd be big enough to hold up and he hasn't ever held up to the elite rushers.

I think the bigger lineman will translate to a better run game and overall more effective line.

Obviously freeing up his salary would benefit us, but I'm not sure how much we would be required to keep on our cap.

Zero Dead cap money

All 12.6 million would be added to our 2023 cap in a trade

(03-17-2023, 02:56 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: he gave up the 6th most sacks in 2021, not 2nd most. You dont even know the facts.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/jonah-williams/41651?season=2021

and that 2021 grade is better than Orlando Brown's best year. All Im saying

I've been wanting him gone for years. The money they save if they are able to trade him would be equivalent for what they will pay for. Orlando Brown this year. Think about that.

(03-17-2023, 04:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote:

3rd actually. I just noticed that PFF defaults to regular and post season combined. 

This is easily checked. I posted Orlando Brown's and Jonah's PFF Grades here:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-For-those-interested-Orlando-Brown-PFF-grades

Brown:

2018 - Rats RT - Run Block 61.8 Pass Block 73.5

2019 - Rats RT - Run Block 59.4 Pass Block 82.5

2020 - Rats RT - Run Block 73.0 Pass Block 76.7

2021 - Chiefs LT - Run Block 67.0 Pass Block 76.1

2022 - Chiefs LT - Run Block 69.1 Pass Block 77.2

Jonah:

2020 - Run Block 53.4 Pass Block 75.8

2021 - Run Block 79.8 Pass Block 68.8

2022 - Run Block 49.9 Pass Block 63.9

Is Washington a possibility, and perhaps could we get Sam Cosmi in return? I liked him coming out of the draft, and they got Wylie to play RT. LT has been a huge hole of instability since Trent Williams left, and Jonah certainly fits what Bieniemy likes in a tackle. Cosmi may be an odd guy out but I am admittedly not too familiar with their OL picture. I know they signed Norwell for LG last year and Nick Gates at C this year. Also believe they've had a lot of injuries the last few years because the few times I watch a WAS game it feels like they have a different starting 5 every time.

(03-17-2023, 04:53 PM)BuildTheWall Wrote: Is Washington a possibility, and perhaps could we get Sam Cosmi in return? I liked him coming out of the draft, and they got Wylie to play RT. LT has been a huge hole of instability since Trent Williams left, and Jonah certainly fits what Bieniemy likes in a tackle. Cosmi may be an odd guy out but I am admittedly not too familiar with their OL picture. I know they signed Norwell for LG last year and Nick Gates at C this year. Also believe they've had a lot of injuries the last few years because the few times I watch a WAS game it feels like they have a different starting 5 every time.

Leno has been pretty good in his 2 years there, especially as a pass blocker...and better overall than Jonah.

(03-17-2023, 03:12 PM)Garrus Wrote: I think the type of pressures matter. I think Jonah is over hated here and isn't as bad as a lot of people think, but my main issue with him is when he got beat, a lot of times it was from the inside, or he got ran over by a bullrush. Burrow cannot step up into the pocket with pressure like that. Brown meanwhile is too big and strong to be beat inside or to get bull rushed. So, the only way you beat him is around the edge, but QBs with good pocket presence (Like Burrow) can step up to avoid that.

I think also playing for the Chiefs actually hurt Brown a bit because their system, and how deep Mahomes drops back makes their OTs job harder. Burrow doesn't drop back as deep which helps our tackles a bit. I think that is the reason Carmen seemed to look good at OT last season. He is big and strong so DEs had to go around him which Burrow was able to step up away from.

In short, I think Brown will fit our offense better than he did the Chiefs, he will also help our run game which is nice. But Jonah isn't as trash as people think, he could get more interest than you think.

I don’t hate Jonah but I do think they made a major upgrade to the line by replacing him. I’d be all for letting him compete for RT but the Bengals clearly knew he wasn’t happy about that before the Brown trade. Carman handled the left edge well in two big games and he’s a mauler when motivated. I bet he plays RT next season. Just hope the Bengals can get some preseason snaps for the starting line.

He is free to request a trade, but I don't know how much we could get for him in a trade for a 5th year player making 12.6 million dollars with questions about whether or not he can play LT at a competent level and with no real information on whether he'd be better or worst at RT or guard. And, as we know, the Bengals aren't in the business of making other teams better. They aren't going to give away an asset just because he's big mad that he had a bad 2022 season and was replaced at the premium tackle spot (which he honestly probably never should have had to begin with).

If a team comes along and offers us a 2nd round pick or more, sure we can do that. But I wouldn't trade him for anything less. Make him sit on the bench and see if he decides, come September, that not playing RT is worth 12.6 million dollars + a really bad off season next year because he'll be coming off 1 bad year at LT, followed by one year on the bench. He'd probably be forced to take a 1 year prove it deal for the 2024 season for a low amount just to show teams that he is a capable starter, so he wouldn't get his big money extension until 2025 at the earliest.

I think he's better off just playing RT.

I'd also entertain the idea of us trading him and our first round pick for a top 15 pick to go get PJJ or Skoronski.

A possible wildcard could be the Patriots. They moved Trent Brown back to LT last year are publicly saying they're still confident in him, but there have been reports of concern behind the scenes. While they brought in Reiff to play RT...maybe they could move Brown back there, have Reiff as the swing tackle and trade for Jonah. Plus, they have like 20 4th round picks.

(03-17-2023, 04:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 3rd actually. I just noticed that PFF defaults to regular and post season combined. 

It's weird in general he's banging the table about being 2nd or 6th worse. As if both aren't terrible.

(03-17-2023, 05:37 PM)TheFan Wrote: It's weird in general he's banging the table about being 2nd or 6th worse. As of both aren't terrible.

Yep. And it's only "6th" because there are guys tied for the 2nd most and 3rd most. 

Hope a trade happens quickly so they can spend that money on any potential free agents they want to take a crack at.