(03-19-2023, 08:43 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: I mean, if this is true wouldn't the bucs just stay out and take Peter?

The Buccaneers need multiple starters one being left tackle specifically. They get Williams at half the price and get to keep all their picks so they can fill holes they have on the DL, Safety etc. This trade would be similar to what the Bengals did to get Cordy Glenn.

(03-19-2023, 09:34 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Nor mine, if Collins gets his knee right, and there's no reason to think he won't, he is our best option at RT. Zuess, Carman, Karras, Cappa and Collins is a pretty damn good o line. 

Oh definitely true!  The line should be much improved! I can only imagine what Joe could do with a few more seconds to throw and so so in the pocket. 

(03-19-2023, 09:34 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Nor mine, if Collins gets his knee right, and there's no reason to think he won't, he is our best option at RT. Zuess, Carman, Karras, Cappa and Collins is a pretty damn good o line. 

Jackson Carman is not a guard! Collins never showed up last season and between his back and his knee I am not certain he will show up this season either and if he does it will more than likely be many games into the season. I would much rather see Carman working at RT. He has the build and the movement for the position. Carman is far better in space than he is in a phone booth.

So are you selling out on Volson after a single rookie season?

(03-19-2023, 10:16 AM)OSUfan Wrote:
Jackson Carman is not a guard! Collins never showed up last season and between his back and his knee I am not certain he will show up this season either and if he does it will more than likely be many games into the season. I would much rather see Carman working at RT. He has the build and the movement for the position. Carman is far better in space than he is in a phone booth.

So are you selling out on Volson after a single rookie season?

I meant Volson (still haven't finished my coffee this morning. I edited it) I am big on Volson. Seems to me like Collins was doing a pretty good job in the run game when Cappa was beside him. And if Carman can beat Collins for the starting position, fine. But I still would not be cutting Collins. 

(03-19-2023, 10:16 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Jackson Carman is not a guard! Collins never showed up last season and between his back and his knee I am not certain he will show up this season either and if he does it will more than likely be many games into the season. I would much rather see Carman working at RT. He has the build and the movement for the position. Carman is far better in space than he is in a phone booth.

So are you selling out on Volson after a single rookie season?

The whole Jackson Carman thing is weird. His 5 starts at RG and 1 start at LG was actually better than Cordell Volson's first 6 starts at Guard. Carman is clearly better than Hakeem Adeniji but he got pulled for Adeniji and then sat behind him this year on the depth chart when you could see on film that should have never been the case. I am not saying Carman is some all-pro but you have to think what's keeping Carman from seeing the field is more than what he's put on film. 

(03-19-2023, 10:54 AM)Synric Wrote: The whole Jackson Carman thing is weird. His 5 starts at RG and 1 start at LG was actually better than Cordell Volson's first 6 starts at Guard. Carman is clearly better than Hakeem Adeniji but he got pulled for Adeniji and then sat behind him this year on the depth chart when you could see on film that should have never been the case. I am not saying Carman is some all-pro but you have to think what's keeping Carman from seeing the field is more than what he's put on film. 

The thing folks overlook on Carman is just how young he was when we drafted him. The kid was barely old enough to drink to celebrate getting drafted. In contrast, Volson was much more mature. Jackson had just turned 21 when we drafted him and Cordell was almost 24. There are guys coming out in this year's draft that are currently older than Jackson.

I'd imagine he was the recipient of some "tough love", but at least JC turned out better than another very young, immature lineman I wanted the year prior: Isiah Wilson

(03-19-2023, 10:54 AM)Synric Wrote: The whole Jackson Carman thing is weird. His 5 starts at RG and 1 start at LG was actually better than Cordell Volson's first 6 starts at Guard. Carman is clearly better than Hakeem Adeniji but he got pulled for Adeniji and then sat behind him this year on the depth chart when you could see on film that should have never been the case. I am not saying Carman is some all-pro but you have to think what's keeping Carman from seeing the field is more than what he's put on film. 

Carman is not a guard and that seems very apparent. People have judged him by his interior play but being able to play tackle does not mean that you can play guard. I believe that Adeniji and Carman both are testaments to this. The positions are completely different animals and require different skill sets. While Adeniji did not set anything on fire even at tackle he looked far better than he did inside. I believe the playoffs showed that Carman is a better player in space and I believe he earned a legit shot at the starting RT job. 

(03-19-2023, 10:21 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I meant Volson (still haven't finished my coffee this morning. I edited it) I am big on Volson. Seems to me like Collins was doing a pretty good job in the run game when Cappa was beside him. And if Carman can beat Collins for the starting position, fine. But I still would not be cutting Collins. 

Collins finished the season a grade below 58 and had given up 5 sacks. Looking pretty good in the run game is one thing but the Bengals are a pass first team and he really struggled in pass protection. The Bengals can save between 6 and 10 mil in cap space by releasing him with an injury settlement depending on the timing of that cut. 

Carman in the playoffs graded just over 58 at LT. Yes that is a limited sample size but that was being thrust into action when the chips were down.

(03-19-2023, 11:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: The thing folks overlook on Carman is just how young he was when we drafted him. The kid was barely old enough to drink to celebrate getting drafted. In contrast, Volson was much more mature. Jackson had just turned 21 when we drafted him and Cordell was almost 24. There are guys coming out in this year's draft that are currently older than Jackson.

I'd imagine he was the recipient of some "tough love", but at least JC turned out better than another very young, immature lineman I wanted the year prior: Isiah Wilson

Awesome perspective.

(03-19-2023, 11:10 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Carman is not a guard and that seems very apparent. People have judged him by his interior play but being able to play tackle does not mean that you can play guard. I believe that Adeniji and Carman both are testaments to this. The positions are completely different animals and require different skill sets. While Adeniji did not set anything on fire even at tackle he looked far better than he did inside. I believe the playoffs showed that Carman is a better player in space and I believe he earned a legit shot at the starting RT job. 

So much FINALITY for a player that had 6 starts at guard his rookie year... and was improving when he got pulled from the lineup. Guess we can add Cordell Volson to the list of Tackles that can't play Guard because you know he was near the bottom of the league. 

(03-18-2023, 04:52 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Two years ago we went to the Super Bowl and he was our best offensive linemen.

If we can't get fairly compensated. He will be on our roster.

2 years ago he had 2 healthy knees. A LT rehabbing 2 bad knees with 1 year left on the deal is not worth much, at all. If you were the bengals, and we didn’t have Brown or Jonah, and say he was on the Lions (I picked a random team), what would you trade for him? We’d all be saying for a 1 year rental with injury issues, let’s offer a 6-7th to see what he’s got. No one is giving a 2nd for him, or even a 3rd.

(03-19-2023, 10:06 AM)Synric Wrote: The Buccaneers need multiple starters one being left tackle specifically. They get Williams at half the price and get to keep all their picks so they can fill holes they have on the DL, Safety etc. This trade would be similar to what the Bengals did to get Cordy Glenn.

I agree with Big Ern. The bucs are in rebuild mode, why would they trade for a LT with 1 year left and lose out on a more premium pick. If they want a LT, take one at #19 and have his control for 5 years instead of 1.


I’ve said it 3x on the board- Jonnah Williams isn’t worth much at all. He’s coming off injuries, he’s often injured, and he’s often giving up sacks. And the absolute biggest reason is he has 1 year left. Any team who wants him will have to resign him to a multi year deal to make the trade worth it. His play has not trumped the risk of singing a player you don’t know how he’ll truly fit in on your team.

(03-19-2023, 11:24 AM)Synric Wrote: So much FINALITY for a player that had 6 starts at guard his rookie year... and was improving when he got pulled from the lineup. Guess we can add Cordell Volson to the list of Tackles that can't play Guard because you know he was near the bottom of the league. 

So you are saying that you felt Carman looked better playing guard than he did starting at LT in the playoffs? I would disagree as I felt Carman looked far more comfortable and natural playing in space. There is also the difference in that Carman had never taken a snap at guard until getting to Cincinnati while Volson had experience at North Dakota State playing every line position other than center.

(03-19-2023, 11:38 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: I agree with Big Ern. The bucs are in rebuild mode, why would they trade for a LT with 1 year left and lose out on a more premium pick. If they want a LT, take one at #19 and have his control for 5 years instead of 1.


I’ve said it 3x on the board- Jonnah Williams isn’t worth much at all. He’s coming off injuries, he’s often injured, and he’s often giving up sacks. And the absolute biggest reason is he has 1 year left. Any team who wants him will have to resign him to a multi year deal to make the trade worth it. His play has not trumped the risk of singing a player you don’t know how he’ll truly fit in on your team.

Again the Left Tackles are already off the board by 19 in this scenario. Peter Skoronski is most likely a guard.

(03-19-2023, 11:42 AM)OSUfan Wrote: So you are saying that you felt Carman looked better playing guard than he did starting at LT in the playoffs? I would disagree as I felt Carman looked far more comfortable and natural playing in space. There is also the difference in that Carman had never taken a snap at guard until getting to Cincinnati while Volson had experience at North Dakota State playing every line position other than center.

Cordell Volson never played guard an NDSU. Carman also had good games when he started at guard. The first Ravens game jumps out he had a really nice day as a run blocker and with all the stunts Wink was throwing at him. He took a couple really ugly rib shots that day.

Really it doesn't matter if I think he can play guard or if you think he can't because he is a backup and if he wants to see the field he better be able to step in at LT, LG, RG, RT. That's what the 6th Offensive Lineman does. 

(03-19-2023, 11:51 AM)Synric Wrote: Cordell Volson never played guard an NDSU. Carman also had good games when he started at guard. The first Ravens game jumps out he had a really nice day as a run blocker and with all the stunts Wink was throwing at him. He took a couple really ugly rib shots that day.

Really it doesn't matter if I think he can play guard or if you think he can't because he is a backup and if he wants to see the field he better be able to step in at LT, LG, RG, RT. That's what the 6th Offensive Lineman does. 

Hate to break this to you but you are wrong.

https://gobison.com/sports/football/roster/cordell-volson/17521

(03-19-2023, 11:55 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Hate to break this to you but you are wrong.

https://gobison.com/sports/football/roster/cordell-volson/17521

Yep you're right according to their website. I went by NFL.com who doesn't mention it.


https://www.nfl.com/prospects/cordell-volson/3200564f-4c52-5986-6322-2a4e76aa5d7a

As Synric said the whole Carman deal is weird. He had back issues coming into his rookie season. He did not start well with the staff. His work ethic wasn’t great. Don’t know if he wasn’t happy even then on playing guard. Hell OBJr doesn’t want to play RT or Jonah. Cody Ford doesn’t want to play guard.

Collins had some issues surrounding a drug suspension ( the drug is no longer banned). Mostly about bribing a worker. He came here with back issues and hardly practiced.

Frankly if it were me ( some said trade Jonah to the Bucs and swap picks @ #19) or the Pats at 14. Tennessee is another possibility. I’d go best available either tackle or TE but get a sure fire star in the making.

To me putting Collins and Carman on a lifeline could make them produce.

I’ve worn it out but I think Volson is going to really take a huge leap. Being a rookie is a huge leap and coming from FCS makes it bigger.

Here’s my thoughts on Carman, reading the comments and various viewpoints
1) He did just fine in the playoffs. Wish we had a bigger sample size.
2) He has had some VERY nice flashes of dominance. Including the playoffs.
3) He seems to have matured
4) He might be able to develop at guard as well as at T

Given this I think he should be given every chance to win RT. If he doesn’t make it, he is the swing T, 6th lineman (I think he would excel here, and enjoy it).

My 2 cents

(03-19-2023, 11:55 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Hate to break this to you but you are wrong.

https://gobison.com/sports/football/roster/cordell-volson/17521

To be completely fair, I can see why NFL.com didn't mention his play those positions. We are talking about a very limited amount of playing time. In his five years at NDSU, he played a couple of quarters at left guard and two games RG. So, less than three games total at G, or 4% of his total appearances. He definitely did play it, I just don't know how much value I would put in that experience.