(03-19-2023, 07:38 PM)TheFan Wrote: Because you don't trade a LT for a player that isn't going improve your team much. He only averaged 4.3 and 4.4 ypc the past 2 years. He has a ton of milage and likely has seen his best years. 

Essentially moving on from two headaches is the way I see it. While acquiring one of the hardest working most physically dominant runners in the NFL in the process.

Marvin draft pick making headlines for all the wrong reasons. Bye. 
A guy who wants out and requested a trade. Bye.

Unique massive RB. Hi.

(03-19-2023, 07:58 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Essentially moving on from two headaches is the way I see it. While acquiring one of the hardest working most physically dominant runners in the NFL in the process.

Marvin draft pick making headlines for all the wrong reasons. Bye. 
A guy who wants out and requested a trade. Bye.

Unique massive RB. Hi.

Derrick Henry and Austin Ekeler both want new contracts. I would guess the Bengals are trying to get out from under large RB contracts not lock themselves in to a large contracts to aging RBs that have had alot of touches. Also neither one of their teams want to give them up for nothing I'd assume low 2 or high 3 at the lowest. 

(03-19-2023, 04:22 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good post, but I kinda disagree on some stuff. 

I am not necessarily buying the idea that Jonah would sit out/sabotage the team next year if he does not get traded. He is not in a good place now, but September is a long ways away. If he is willing to play hard and not be a locker room cancer, we don't have to trade him. 

Regarding reivesting the money. We are not gonna spend starting level money on a reserve OG. Nothing close to what Scott is making  much less Jonah's $12.6. There is not an IOL worth half of Jonah's salary left on the board. Seumalo just got $8 per year, and he was the best on the board. Outside Dalton Schultz or Gardner-Johnson, there isn't a $12 mil guy left on the board anywhere. And given the depth of the TE class and the fact ee just signed Scott, not sure a high $ signing makes a ton of sense at either spot. 

I guess my long winded point is that we are likely gonna utilize Jonah's salary by splitting it up into several smaller signings. A reserve DE and OG. A TE2 type. Backup RB. Apple. We can likely accomplish all that without trading him. Unless we can land a starting level FA with that $$ (or a high pick who helps immediately), we are better on the field next year if Jonah plays. I think that is how the FO views it, and it is hard to disagree. We are in win now mode, and should be. 

Plus, even if we want a trade, any other team can just take Wright or Jones as well. And save money doing so, and have control for longer. And they pick before us. 

I do not know how it shakes out. I'd love to get a nice Day 2 pick and land Schultz (or Byard if Tennessee cuts him) with Jonah's $$$. I just am not sure that is realistic. If it ends up being bit players, I'd rather have Jonah at RT from jump. 

I agree with what you are saying about Jonah. If he wants to put his head down and go to work as a RT I am all for it. h
However, it sounds like he's not even willing to entertain the idea. If that were to change, I'm all for keeping him. I'm not knocking on him. He's been adequate except when facing Garrett or Jones. 

Basically, I was just saying reinvest his money towards needs. The line is a need so was just my first thought. I liked it when we picked Jonah, but I don't see the sky falling if he rolls on. 

(03-19-2023, 05:27 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I want King Henry. Titans need a LT and I'm sure Henry isn't thrilled to be part of a rebuild. Both are due a lot of money in the last year of their contract. Henry would get to compete for a Super Bowl. Jonah gets to stay at LT and  try to earn a big deal in his contract year.

Why would you want a power running back that does not really fit what this team does on offense at all. A back in this offense must be a really capable receiver and that just is not his strength.

(03-19-2023, 08:17 PM)Synric Wrote: Derrick Henry and Austin Ekeler both want new contracts. I would guess the Bengals are trying to get out from under large RB contracts not lock themselves in to a large contracts to aging RBs that have had alot of touches. Also neither one of their teams want to give them up for nothing I'd assume low 2 or high 3 at the lowest. 

Agreed. Any large contract given to a RB is better spent on OL, both starters and depth. Improving your OL helps both your running game regardless of who is in the backfield and more importantly helps protect Joe Burrow, which is really the number one thing that matters on this team.

Draft a RB, let him play out 3/4 years or 4/5 years of his rookie contract, draft another RB, repeat. If you happen to find the second coming of Barry Sanders or Jim Brown we can talk about paying a RB, but short of that keep it churning.

(03-19-2023, 07:58 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Essentially moving on from two headaches is the way I see it. While acquiring one of the hardest working most physically dominant runners in the NFL in the process.

Marvin draft pick making headlines for all the wrong reasons. Bye. 
A guy who wants out and requested a trade. Bye.

Unique massive RB. Hi.

Unique massive RB likely on the decline of his career who doesn't fit your scheme.

Perine and Mixon had 125 targets last year alone. Henry has had 166 in his entire career. 
Perine and Mixon had 305 carries combined last year compared to Henry's 349. 

He's definitely better than either but it's such a minor upgrade that it's not worth the trade, in my opinion. 

(03-18-2023, 04:52 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Two years ago we went to the Super Bowl and he was our best offensive linemen.

Yes, that’s a true statement but it’s all relative in this case. Jonah was the best in 2021 because the rest of the offensive line was horrible in comparison.

(03-18-2023, 03:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Getting a 4th and letting go of 12.6 mil against the Cap would be a big time win.

Noone is giving up a 4th for a 12 mil 1 year rental on a below average left tackle.

If Williams gets traded, then it is a must that we get a RT in the first or second round of the draft. Not just any rookie RT we need the one that is most polished and does not need coached up. Carman is the best chance at having someone on the team play RT but cannot go into the season on a chance that he can switch from LT to RT without a good backup plan in place.

(03-19-2023, 09:31 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: If Williams gets traded, then it is a must that we get a RT in the first or second round of the draft. Not just any rookie RT we need the one that is most polished and does not need coached up. Carman is the best chance at having someone on the team play RT but cannot go into the season on a chance that he can switch from LT to RT without a good backup plan in place.

If they keep him, what makes anyone think he can just switch to RT?

Back in the great draft debate, it was all about how Jonah was the LT and an upgrade wasn't needed. Well that was wrong. Then it was, all about how it's no sure thing he could switch to RT, and now several of those same people are just expecting him to do it.

I think RT is a need in the draft no matter what happens with Jonah. Collins may not be back, and Carman was more comfortable on the left side obviously.

The biggest takeaway for me from all this is would simply be that Jonah isn't that guy. Remember when Whit was here and they drafted a Tackle in the 1st and 2nd round? He didn't tuck his tail and ask for a trade, dude nutted up and said bring it. It's my job and I'll win it. Don't see that heart and fire in Jonah, instead of it being a challenge and pushing himself to help the team or win the job outright, he just wants to go play elsewhere. 

The Bengals will get offers for him though as there is a true lack of offensive line talent across the league. To those saying the team won't get anything because he is average (which I agree he certainly is) Cedric Ogbuehi was on the Jets roster last year. So, someone is going to come make an offer to avoid having to compete in the FA market.

(03-19-2023, 10:06 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: If they keep him, what makes anyone think he can just switch to RT?

Back in the great draft debate, it was all about how Jonah was the LT and an upgrade wasn't needed. Well that was wrong. Then it was, all about how it's no sure thing he could switch to RT, and now several of those same people are just expecting him to do it.

I think RT is a need in the draft no matter what happens with Jonah. Collins may not be back, and Carman was more comfortable on the left side obviously.

The biggest takeaway for me from all this is would simply be that Jonah isn't that guy. Remember when Whit was here and they drafted a Tackle in the 1st and 2nd round? He didn't tuck his tail and ask for a trade, dude nutted up and said bring it. It's my job and I'll win it. Don't see that heart and fire in Jonah, instead of it being a challenge and pushing himself to help the team or win the job outright, he just wants to go play elsewhere. 

The Bengals will get offers for him though as there is a true lack of offensive line talent across the league. To those saying the team won't get anything because he is average (which I agree he certainly is) Cedric Ogbuehi was on the Jets roster last year. So, someone is going to come make an offer to avoid having to compete in the FA market.

He played RT his freshman year in college, so he is our best option that is currently on the team. We should draft a guy weather Williams stays or not just in case he cannot play RT. So, I agree with you there.

I like the idea of trading Williams and wonder if that was in the Bengals plans all along to get rid of the 12 million cap hit even before he asked for a trade.
They would play it safe and keep him, but the funds go a long way re-signing our big names.

It is hard to get a read on these new Bengals though. In the great draft debate as you put it I just thought 12 million and a 2nd round pick in Carman was too much invested at LT then bam we get Orlando. I was flabbergasted but now we are set at LT LG C and RG for three years or so if Volson can take that second-year step. That is why I think we need that RT that will be here for three plus years the younger the better which is why Collins and Williams do not seem to fit because of injuries and age.

(03-19-2023, 11:54 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: He played RT his freshman year in college, so he is our best option that is currently on the team. We should draft a guy weather Williams stays or not just in case he cannot play RT. So, I agree with you there.

I like the idea of trading Williams and wonder if that was in the Bengals plans all along to get rid of the 12 million cap hit even before he asked for a trade.
They would play it safe and keep him, but the funds go a long way re-signing our big names.

It is hard to get a read on these new Bengals though. In the great draft debate as you put it I just thought 12 million and a 2nd round pick in Carman was too much invested at LT then bam we get Orlando. I was flabbergasted but now we are set at LT LG C and RG for three years or so if Volson can take that second-year step. That is why I think we need that RT that will be here for three plus years the younger the better which is why Collins and Williams do not seem to fit because of injuries and age.

There is no doubt, the line is in the best shape on paper that we've seen in a long time. I think drafting a RT is the correct move but hopefully Collins can get healthy and play and let the rookie sit back and learn and come along slow versus having to be out there week 1.

(03-19-2023, 11:54 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: He played RT his freshman year in college, so he is our best option that is currently on the team. We should draft a guy weather Williams stays or not just in case he cannot play RT. So, I agree with you there.

I like the idea of trading Williams and wonder if that was in the Bengals plans all along to get rid of the 12 million cap hit even before he asked for a trade.
They would play it safe and keep him, but the funds go a long way re-signing our big names.

It is hard to get a read on these new Bengals though. In the great draft debate as you put it I just thought 12 million and a 2nd round pick in Carman was too much invested at LT then bam we get Orlando. I was flabbergasted but now we are set at LT LG C and RG for three years or so if Volson can take that second-year step. That is why I think we need that RT that will be here for three plus years the younger the better which is why Collins and Williams do not seem to fit because of injuries and age.

Brown and his agent approached Cincy Tuesday. They had unexpectedly lost all of Bates/Bell/Hurst/Perine. They’d not even looked at OBJr as a possibility. Tuesday they told Pollack to look over his film. Zac called his contacts in Norman about his character and the price was much lower ( 16m) than they ever imagined but they gave him a lot of upfront money to make it work. Zac fell asleep on the couch with his kids at 8:30 woke up at 12:30 and his phone had blown up from his grade school buddies with Boomer Sooners and figured it had gone through (10:30). He said he had to scroll through a bunch to get to Steven Radicevic’s.

La’el Collins is broken down and a bad RT

I cannot believe some of you think he’ll somehow bounce back to when he was a good RT years ago

(03-20-2023, 12:24 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: La’el Collins is broken down and a bad RT

I cannot believe some of you think he’ll somehow bounce back to when he was a good RT years ago

It was actually a year ago

(03-20-2023, 12:41 AM)bfine32 Wrote: It was actually a year ago

He was a very bad pass protector last year. And now he has more wear and tear. LC is a back up

(03-20-2023, 01:13 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: He was a very bad pass protector last year. And now he has more wear and tear. LC is a back up

LC had a poor year last year, but it hasn't been "years" since he was good. 

(03-20-2023, 01:13 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: He was a very bad pass protector last year. And now he has more wear and tear. LC is a back up

I posted numbers in another thread...maybe in the free agency forum. An "average" T will give up about 5 sacks and 34 pressures in about 1K snaps. 

LC gave up...5 sacks and 34 pressures last year. Now, he did it in 951 snaps, but that's not too far off "average" but he's not very bad, or even bad for that matter. 

Jonah has been much worse. 

(03-20-2023, 01:20 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I posted numbers in another thread...maybe in the free agency forum. An "average" T will give up about 5 sacks and 34 pressures in about 1K snaps. 

LC gave up...5 sacks and 34 pressures last year. Now, he did it in 951 snaps, but that's not too far off "average" but he's not very bad, or even bad for that matter. 

Jonah has been much worse. 

It is the way Collins blocks outside rushers diving to the ground and pushing the guy up field to give Dalton a sec to get rid of it. Collins is laying on his face and it all happens right in front of Joe, so Joe knows he has to get rid of the ball now or take a sack. That is far from proper blocking technique but Burrow bails him out of giving up a sack because he sees it all happen. Williams on the other hand is blocking Joes blind side and if he did what Collins does, he would get Joe killed. 

And I am glad Williams is not protecting Joes blind side we need a great guy at that spot and now we have one in Orlando. Joe will see the pressure coming from the RT weather it is Collins, Williams, Carman enter draft picks name here. For that very reason we are much better off this year on the O-line. 

(03-20-2023, 01:20 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I posted numbers in another thread...maybe in the free agency forum. An "average" T will give up about 5 sacks and 34 pressures in about 1K snaps. 

LC gave up...5 sacks and 34 pressures last year. Now, he did it in 951 snaps, but that's not too far off "average" but he's not very bad, or even bad for that matter. 

Jonah has been much worse. 

Guess you don’t have eyes. LC would get beat so quickly constantly. He pass protection grade was like 46

Thankfully Burrow and the offense relied on quick release passing game

It’s getting ridiculous when people reference sacks allowed like that is what defines a good pass blocker.

Just re-watch how bad LC was in the Chiefs game during the regular season. It’s like the offense was designed to mask his inefficiencies at RT