(03-20-2023, 12:20 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: If Jonah isn't traded, I hope he doesn't hold out and I hope he acts professional. We might need him at RT and we'll need the best out of him.

If he holds out, more cap money for us in 2024. He will lose $741,000 each week he does not play.

He may be upset, but I don't think he is stupid.

If other teams do not want to offer at least a 4th for him, let him cool down and then remind him it is in his best interests in a contract year to show the league he can still healthy and he can help them in 2024.

Sitting out could end his career. Ask Bell how sitting out worked for him.

(03-20-2023, 12:08 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: People out here acting like Lael Collins is going to be our starting RT week 1 are driving me nuts.

The guy tore his ACL and MCL on Christmas. There is ZERO chance he will be ready by week 1 if at all for the entirity of the season. There's also a good chance he won't be the same guy ever.

If Jonah leaves, we legit do not have a decent option at RT.

Agree

I can't imagine Collins will be back before mid-season, if even then. Remember he was sitting out a lot of practices last season with his "back issues". Now add in the knee, umm I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about him being our starting RT next season.

And lets face it he's not all that in passpro. Oh he's ok against middle of the road DE's and below. But against the upper class he's very marginal. I can't imagine with the knee issue that's going to improve this coming season.

(03-20-2023, 01:03 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If he holds out, more cap money for us in 2024. He will lose $741,000 each week he does not play.

He may be upset, but I don't think he is stupid.

If other teams do not want to offer at least a 4th for him, let him cool down and then remind him it is in his best interests in a contract year to show the league he can still healthy and he can help them in 2024.

Sitting out could end his career. Ask Bell how sitting out worked for him.

He is under contract if he sits out more than I think its 6 games he loses the year and the Bengals retain his rights in 2024.

(03-20-2023, 12:19 PM)Garrus Wrote: People are relying on Carmen to be the RT which is nuts to me. He could be good there I guess, but I wouldn't feel good about him starting there. It's why I wouldn't be surprised if we draft a RT at 28 if a decent one is still available. 

I’m not relying on it. I’m hoping he wins the job, and consistently dominates as he has shown flashes of. But by all means, let there be a competition. If CarMAN has matured as some has suggested, then he will need to handle it.

Disappointed in Jonah’s decision here. He hasn’t been healthy, he has to earn some trust here… . Let him go and some RT/swing T depth.

(03-20-2023, 12:19 PM)Garrus Wrote: People are relying on Carmen to be the RT which is nuts to me. He could be good there I guess, but I wouldn't feel good about him starting there. It's why I wouldn't be surprised if we draft a RT at 28 if a decent one is still available. 

Who has said they are relying on Carman to be the RT? I have seen people state that they feel he should get a legit shot at the starting job but I have not seen anyone state that they are relying on it. I hope they do draft a RT at 28, there certainly will be decent ones there. Darnell Wright should be there. 

This could be a situation where we don't see a resolution until well into training camp. There will be injuries to lineman during camp and that is where it'll most likely make sense to move him to a team that went from being good to being desperate. His single year contract in that situation won't be an issue most likely. I am just not sure until that point there is enough demand to move him.

That said the draft can sometimes spark some crazy things. A team who thinks they are going tackle may have someone else fall in their lap then have to figure out how they are going to cover the tackle spot.

(03-20-2023, 04:25 PM)Au165 Wrote: This could be a situation where we don't see a resolution until well into training camp. There will be injuries to lineman during camp and that is where it'll most likely make sense to move him to a team that went from being good to being desperate. His single year contract in that situation won't be an issue most likely. I am just not sure until that point there is enough demand to move him.

That said the draft can sometimes spark some crazy things. A team who thinks they are going tackle may have someone else fall in their lap then have to figure out how they are going to cover the tackle spot.

I just wish he wasn't limiting himself to LT only when his real issue is just staying healthy. If he stays healthy next year and plays average he will get paid won't matter if it's LT or RT. 

(03-20-2023, 04:36 PM)Synric Wrote: I just wish he wasn't limiting himself to LT only when his real issue is just staying healthy. If he stays healthy next year and plays average he will get paid won't matter if it's LT or RT. 

It's a tough situation all around. 

For any team to be willing to give up a draft pick for Jonah, they're also going to have to be willing to roll the dice that taking on almost 13m is worth it for a guy coming of 2 dislocated kneecaps and a bad season, and probably not someone you want to extend yet before you see him on the field for awhile. 

The one team I keep coming back to in terms of making the most sense is the Pats. Belichick will roll the dice when it comes to trades, and he's always loved him some Alabama players. They have the money, the opportunity at LT that would let them get Brown back to the right side and they have a few extra day 3 picks.

I dont understand the big deal about RT and LT. Is it an ego thing?
There is not that big of a difference between elite RT and LT salaries enough of being warranted to act like this.
I mean there are outliers like Tunsil's and Trent Williams' contracts but they are the elite Lt's and i dont even think that
Jonah believes himself in that category , does he?

If I was just an average left Tackle I would personally rather be an elite RT or Guard but I guess that is the pride that
NFL players have.

(03-20-2023, 12:08 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: People out here acting like Lael Collins is going to be our starting RT week 1 are driving me nuts.

The guy tore his ACL and MCL on Christmas. There is ZERO chance he will be ready by week 1 if at all for the entirity of the season. There's also a good chance he won't be the same guy ever.

If Jonah leaves, we legit do not have a decent option at RT.

Not all tears are the same. When it happened, Collins was hopeful he could return to the field soon. The imaging revealed the tears. All that points to a less severe tear and a quicker recovery time. 

Now, I agree, opening day is probably pushing it. But I am pretty comfortable with Jonah or Carman over there until he gets healthy. 

We have SEVEN tackles signed. Right now. Brown is a stud. Williams is slightly above average when healthy. So is Collins. Both had poor seasons last year. Both are coming off injury. Carman played really well in the POs. If Collins starts out in PUP, let Adeniji/Ford/Smith fight for the last OT spot until then. 

We are done on the line unless Jonah gets traded. Even then, I think we would either ride with what we have or draft value if it happens. The OT class is thin and the IOL class not real impressive. I think TE, DE, CB, and RB are all deep classes where we have some need. DT & WR depth also could be better, though the DT class is weak. Punter is also possible. I can get to 7 pretty wleasy without taking an OL. 

(03-20-2023, 12:19 PM)Garrus Wrote: People are relying on Carmen to be the RT which is nuts to me. He could be good there I guess, but I wouldn't feel good about him starting there. It's why I wouldn't be surprised if we draft a RT at 28 if a decent one is still available. 

Doesn't matter what people here or the media thinks.  It's all speculation.

Soonerpeace seems to have some kinda of inside information, so I'd be interested in his take.  Though I am always skeptical of inside intel after Brian Pettronia (no offense Sooner).

(03-20-2023, 05:37 PM)bengalfan47 Wrote: I dont understand the big deal about RT and LT. Is it an ego thing?
There is not that big of a difference between elite RT and LT salaries enough of being warranted to act like this.
I mean there are outliers like Tunsil's and Trent Williams' contracts but they are the elite Lt's and i dont even think that
Jonah believes himself in that category , does he?

If I was just an average left Tackle I would personally rather be an elite RT or Guard but I guess that is the pride that
NFL players have.

It's a huge deal to OBJ.  He father was flagged a RT and never got a chance to prove himself as a LT.  OBJ started as a RT and specifically asked to be traded to play LT in KC.  He specifically didn't take RT offers during FA because he wanted to only play LT.

So yeah it matters to some of these guys big time.

(03-20-2023, 04:36 PM)Synric Wrote: I just wish he wasn't limiting himself to LT only when his real issue is just staying healthy. If he stays healthy next year and plays average he will get paid won't matter if it's LT or RT. 

The smooth flip from one side to the other is kind of this long time myth. It has really screwed up some dudes and while some can pull it off fine others it can take a season, or longer, to be able to do it well. I think him already carrying the label of constantly hurt and then potentially moving out of his comfort zone on a one year prove it situation is the issue. I bet if he had been healthy and even just been slightly above average he wouldn't have cared but coming off the season he had, being hurt, he knows he has to perform and he thinks he can do that better at LT than anywhere knew.

I get it from his perspective. 

(03-20-2023, 03:33 PM)SladeX Wrote: I’m not relying on it. I’m hoping he wins the job, and consistently dominates as he has shown flashes of. But by all means, let there be a competition. If CarMAN has matured as some has suggested, then he will need to handle it.

Disappointed in Jonah’s decision here. He hasn’t been healthy, he has to earn some trust here… . Let him go and some RT/swing T depth.

Carman has to compete for his spot. Can he play RT? Bengals seems to think so. They also knew Jonah wouldn’t want to shift to RT prior to the Brown signing so a trade request had to cross their mind. At this point the Bengals can call it a day on RT. It’s either Jonah or Carman starting. If Jonah’s agent can swing a deal on draft day that nets a chance to draft a good tackle prospect then send him off. Just one rule. No Adeniji at RT ever again.

I feel the Bengals should give Jonah's agent the opportunity to contact teams about a possible trade.

He may find he is coveted by a team or two or find out he has no trade value. He may see other teams see him as a guard or RT.

Bengals control the compensation, so this process is no harm no foul if Bengals don't get an offer to their liking.

But, under no circumstances would I just give him away. He does have value. He is young and experienced.

(03-20-2023, 05:37 PM)bengalfan47 Wrote: I dont understand the big deal about RT and LT. Is it an ego thing?
There is not that big of a difference between elite RT and LT salaries enough of being warranted to act like this.
I mean there are outliers like Tunsil's and Trent Williams' contracts but they are the elite Lt's and i dont even think that
Jonah believes himself in that category , does he?

If I was just an average left Tackle I would personally rather be an elite RT or Guard but I guess that is the pride that
NFL players have.

It is an ego thing but players like Big Willie proved that being the best RT in the league comes with a huge amount of respect. Also, the Big Willie situation has proven that a completely dominant RT does not come around every day!

(03-20-2023, 06:07 PM)Stewy Wrote: It's a huge deal to OBJ.  He father was flagged a RT and never got a chance to prove himself as a LT.  OBJ started as a RT and specifically asked to be traded to play LT in KC.  He specifically didn't take RT offers during FA because he wanted to only play LT.

So yeah it matters to some of these guys big time.

Yeah , I can understand if it is so personal of a thing, but I mean for just the regular guy without such an emotional attachment to it. 
I mean I could see if they benched Jonah and said we are trying a different approach but they are still going to have him starting at almost 
an equally important position. An NFL player would rather leave the team he started with, move his family and start over just because of a position?

(03-20-2023, 01:03 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If he holds out, more cap money for us in 2024. He will lose $741,000 each week he does not play.

He may be upset, but I don't think he is stupid.

If other teams do not want to offer at least a 4th for him, let him cool down and then remind him it is in his best interests in a contract year to show the league he can still healthy and he can help them in 2024.

Sitting out could end his career. Ask Bell how sitting out worked for him.

(03-20-2023, 01:22 PM)Synric Wrote: He is under contract if he sits out more than I think its 6 games he loses the year and the Bengals retain his rights in 2024.

I don't think the hold out fine money goes back into your salary cap. 

The go-to move nowadays is the Hold In. You show up, claim a minor soft tissue injury that keeps on nagging, and you spend all your time on the rehab field. You get paid, and you get your credit towards a year, and the team can't fine you for not showing up.

(03-20-2023, 10:11 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Bengals just need to trade Jonah and Mixon for picks and load up in this draft with players on rookie deals.

I don’t see any teams trading for that Mixon contract.

(03-20-2023, 07:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't think the hold out fine money goes back into your salary cap. 

The go-to move nowadays is the Hold In. You show up, claim a minor soft tissue injury that keeps on nagging, and you spend all your time on the rehab field. You get paid, and you get your credit towards a year, and the team can't fine you for not showing up.

It is not fine money if you fail to honor your contract, it is lost salary so yes the money is removed from the 2023 cap.

Why would the NFL team punish a team for a player not honoring their contract and force then to pay him anyway??

How would faking an injury help his value to 2024 after already having injury concerns? If Jonah wants another contract, he needs to earn it by playing well in 2023.