(03-20-2023, 12:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I fully concur that whoever picked up the brass did so in an attempt to "mask" evidence. I was just disagreeing with the notion that it meant the person didn't fear for their lives/property when they discharged the rounds. 

The question is "Why" the shots were fired and IMO IF the kid was on their property playing badass with his toy gun, he shares in the why. 

In my opinion, if she was that scared before the shooting, I find it hard to believe that she would be that calm after the shooting when a threat could still be out there. If you shoot a threat in the foot, he’s still a treat. Unless he isn’t. Then by all means, police up your brass. (I’m getting ready to go to the range today and I don’t even need to police up my brass there.)

I posted a link earlier that included a media brief by the prosecutor (IIRC) that included a diagram of the scene. I think it was based upon video evidence. (Almost everyone in my neighborhood, at least, has a Ring video camera.) Again, IIRC, the briefing indicated the kid was in his own yard. I don’t know the strength of the evidence, though. (Like are there gaps in the surveillance when he could have been out of view, etc.)

(03-20-2023, 12:59 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: In my opinion, if she was that scared before the shooting, I find it hard to believe that she would be that calm after the shooting when a threat could still be out there. If you shoot a threat in the foot, he’s still a treat. Unless he isn’t. Then by all means, police up your brass. (I’m getting ready to go to the range today and I don’t even need to police up my brass there.)

I posted a link earlier that included a media brief by the prosecutor (IIRC) that included a diagram of the scene. I think it was based upon video evidence. (Almost everyone in my neighborhood, at least, has a Ring video camera.) Again, IIRC, the briefing indicated the kid was in his own yard. I don’t know the strength of the evidence, though. (Like are there gaps in the surveillance when he could have been out of view, etc.)

Yeah, as I said a lot of this one doesn't pass the smell test. IF the kid was on his property why didn't they call 911? Why did the kid refuse treatment? Why haven't we heard a word from the parents or Joe Mixon? 

When you add the red flags piling up around Joe Mixon to the fact that he is overpaid for his role, it is obviously time to move on.  Stupid behavior and guns are a recipe for disaster and we don't want him around when it strikes.

I don't think there's a chance in hell that Brewer mistook the kids game for a real threat.  I'll bet he got annoyed and decided to pop off some rounds to scare them.

I don't think mistaking a Nerf gun for a real gun has anything to do with it.  But the notion that colorful guns are restricted to poor neighborhoods is ignorant.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the cheesy, painted guns I've seen on "On Patrol Live" are just imitations of some of the fashionable guns that aren't cheap.

(03-19-2023, 10:08 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This is exactly, word for word, what you said and i simply pointed out how it was incorrect. 


My post showed that they are. Where and when they're used isn't solely determined on what part of town you are in. 

As an aside to that, actual toy guns are used in real crimes as well. Some dude in Texas recently got blown away trying to rob a restaurant recently with a toy gun. I've also watched many youtube videos of people carrying toy guns, who were shot by police when they brandished them, in all kinds of neighborhoods.

To the point of where and when a real or toy gun is used, regardless of where the incident happens, if you are threatened, it would be silly, negligible and potentially deadly to your safety if you wait to see if the gun is real or not, because real crimes are committed by people who are carrying real guns and fake/toy guns. 

I don't reply like Fredtoast because i ususally employ context, common sense and real-world expierence when i form a thought.

As a nice little added anecdote, just the other day, 3 teens came walking down the street where i work with what, upon closer inspection, looked like 3 assault type rifles that were cut out of wood and painted. If confronted with the decision, with the number of active shooters in the world today, how long do you wait before you decide to brandish your own weapon with the intent to defend yourself?

The entire point being, the world isn't as black and white as you are trying to make it and with hindsight, you can never be wrong. In the moment, though, you can. 

Some questions here regarding the bold....

- Defend yourself from what? Teens walking with wooden toy guns?

- And, the moment you react is when you have utmost certainty. Not scared suspicion.

I understand vigilance. I understand proactive awareness. I understand keeping eyes out..... I don't understand shoot first and figure it out later in the instance you just described. I don't understand brandishing a weapon without KNOWING the situation or what is happening. Acting in that way is completely fear driven and irrational. In most life situations (to steal a quote from my favorite book) "Haste is a poor counselor".

(03-20-2023, 07:17 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Some questions here regarding the bold....

- Defend yourself from what? Teens walking with wooden toy guns?

- And, the moment you react is when you have utmost certainty. Not scared suspicion.

I understand vigilance. I understand proactive awareness. I understand keeping eyes out..... I don't understand shoot first and figure it out later in the instance you just described. I don't understand brandishing a weapon without KNOWING the situation or what is happening. Acting in that way is completely fear driven and irrational. In most life situations (to steal a quote from my favorite book) "Haste is a poor counselor".

But you seem to understand or at least not comment on walking down the street with objects designed to look like assault weapons. I don't understand why someone would do that and not expect to provoke a reaction. 

(03-20-2023, 07:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But you seem to understand or at least not comment on walking down the street with objects designed to look like assault weapons. I don't understand why someone would do that and not expect to provoke a reaction. 

I didn't comment because the question I asked was my comment. It was rhetorical. Defend yourself from what? The answer was NOTHING. A painted piece of wood is NOTHING. The kids are allowed to have painted pieces of wood designed to look like Deez Nuts if they want. They don't deserve to get shot.

You never played guns as a kid? I had a wooden tommy gun that shot rubber bands. I had all sorts of toy guns that made noise. I had all sorts of nerf guns. I had real wooden nunchucks, toy swords, etc etc. My friends and I played guns, rode bikes with these things. It's part of playing and being outside.

Someone walking down the street with a toy gun... EVEN A REAL GUN... does not = taking the law into your own hands and going Rambo before they actually begin do something to anyone.

I've watched Die Hard, too.... That doesn't mean I'm looking to live it out in real life. Being vigilant comes with the responsobility of using good judgement.

The idea that people feel like a POSSIBLE threat is cause to shoot someone is just incredible to me. Black Hoodies, anyone? Where does it start and stop? Who gets to determine what a credible threat is? Now it's someone walking down the street with a wooden toy gun? Even if they wanted it to look real... Holding a toy gun that looks real doesn't = private citizen has a right to blast away.

(03-20-2023, 09:08 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I didn't comment because the question I asked was my comment. It was rhetorical. Defend yourself from what? The answer was NOTHING. A painted piece of wood is NOTHING. The kids are allowed to have painted pieces of wood designed to look like Deez Nuts if they want. They don't deserve to get shot.

You never played guns as a kid? I had a wooden tommy gun that shot rubber bands. I had all sorts of toy guns that made noise. I had all sorts of nerf guns. I had real wooden nunchucks, toy swords, etc etc. My friends and I played guns, rode bikes with these things. It's part of playing and being outside.

Someone walking down the street with a toy gun... EVEN A REAL GUN... does not = taking the law into your own hands and going Rambo before they actually begin do something to anyone.

I've watched Die Hard, too.... That doesn't mean I'm looking to live it out in real life. Being vigilant comes with the responsobility of using good judgement.

The idea that people feel like a POSSIBLE threat is cause to shoot someone is just incredible to me. Black Hoodies, anyone? Where does it start and stop? Who gets to determine what a credible threat is? Now it's someone walking down the street with a wooden toy gun? Even if they wanted it to look real... Holding a toy gun that looks real doesn't = private citizen has a right to blast away.

I did when I was about 5. I had a cap gun, a hat, and chaps. 

Did you continue to play with your Tommy Gun into your teens?  Seems to me the ones "playing Rambo' are the teens running around with guns; fake or otherwise. 

I don't get where you think I said anyone deserves to get shot. I'd just prefer teens not walk around neighborhoods with guns; real or otherwise. 

I'm all about personal responsibility. As to who gets to determine a credible threat? I'd go with a court of law. 

(03-20-2023, 07:17 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Some questions here regarding the bold....

- Defend yourself from what? Teens walking with wooden toy guns?

- And, the moment you react is when you have utmost certainty. Not scared suspicion.

I understand vigilance. I understand proactive awareness. I understand keeping eyes out..... I don't understand shoot first and figure it out later in the instance you just described. I don't understand brandishing a weapon without KNOWING the situation or what is happening. Acting in that way is completely fear driven and irrational. In most life situations (to steal a quote from my favorite book) "Haste is a poor counselor".

That was just a real life, recent example of a split second encounter. Nothing came of it. To give more detail, one of my co-workers was on a ladder, working on something on the front of our shop. His back was turned to the guys walking down the street and he just happened to be coming down and turned around as they were right next to him. He doesn't carry a gun and i'm not going to just pull mine if i was in his shoes, but the sight of something that looks like an assault rifle, right next to you, in an instant is going to at least startle most people. 

I wasn't saying, and i don't believe, shoot first ask questions later. It's way to easy to sit here on the computer, with hindsight and say "he should have done this...i would have done this...etc, etc". In the moment, any given situation could require a split second decision that could alter your's or someone else's life. 

I wouldn't be pulling a gun out, in my yard, if kids were running around outside. I'd certainly find a way to check what was going on but different people respond to situations differently. I'm pretty sound of mind and cautious (being a gun owner and CCW carrier) but i don't know how mentally stable the dude that popped some rounds off is. Up to this point, i've never taken my gun out of it's holster as a means to confront something that was happening around or in front of me.

(03-20-2023, 09:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I did when I was about 5. I had a cap gun, a hat, and chaps. 

Did you continue to play with your Tommy Gun into your teens?  Seems to me the ones "playing Rambo' are the teens running around with guns; fake or otherwise. 

I don't get where you think I said anyone deserves to get shot. I'd just prefer teens not walk around neighborhoods with guns; real or otherwise. 

I'm all about personal responsibility. As to who gets to determine a credible threat? I'd go with a court of law. 

In the United States acourt of law would tell you it's a free country and that people of all ages can play with toy guns. They are LEGALLY ALLOWED TO, regardless of age. They can legally walk around with toy or wooden guns. Your opinion that it's childish or not what you prefer doesn't matter. The idea that anyone needs to have any kind of reaction to it is asinine. 

- In the United States kids and adults of all ages play with airsoft and paintball guns every day and it is perfectly legal. Kids and adults use toy guns to play with each other in their yards all the time. My kid has some huge Nerf guns. One is like the minigun, Old Painless, in Predator. I couldn't imagine playing Nerf with him in the front yard and someone next door being like "Honey, grab your Kriss Vector. Shit is going down!". You would have to be an absolute moron to do that.

BB Guns, Paintball guns, airsoft guns, Nerf guns.... Hell, I bought my 10 year old a full auto AK47 BB gun that uses CO2 cartridges and it is PERFECTLY LEGAL for us to shoot it in our yard whether my neighbor doesn't prefer it or not.

- You're actually allowed to pretend to be Rambo in the United States. You can pretend to be Cobra Commander, any Ninja Turtle you want, Sgt Slaughter, whatever.... You just can't actually do Rambo or Cobra Commander things and blast away at people for doing stuff you don't prefer them to do.

- Kids, specifically high school teens, play with wooden guns all the time.... every day in the United States... as members of their high school color guard teams. 



- What you prefer people to do doesn't give you or anyone else the right to shoot them for doing or not doing it. Before you say you didn't say that... WTF is your point, then? Just to be contrarian?

- The kids next to Joe Mixon's house were teens playing with Nerf guns. Perfectly legal. Just like my boy and I do in our yard.

In fact, the only illegal thing done in this discussion was Joe Mixon's family shooting a kid for playing outside. Regardless of their reasons, that was illegal on several different levels.

Playing with any of these things is legal and aren't deemed credible threats enough for private citizens to take a position of self defense in any way. What you or, more specifically, Joe Mixon's family prefers doesn't matter. You cannot shoot someone for playing guns in their yard because you don't like it.

(03-20-2023, 09:52 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That was just a real life, recent example of a split second encounter. Nothing came of it. To give more detail, one of my co-workers was on a ladder, working on something on the front of our shop. His back was turned to the guys walking down the street and he just happened to be coming down and turned around as they were right next to him. He doesn't carry a gun and i'm not going to just pull mine if i was in his shoes, but the sight of something that looks like an assault rifle, right next to you, in an instant is going to at least startle most people. 

I wasn't saying, and i don't believe, shoot first ask questions later. It's way to easy to sit here on the computer, with hindsight and say "he should have done this...i would have done this...etc, etc". In the moment, any given situation could require a split second decision that could alter your's or someone else's life. 

I wouldn't be pulling a gun out, in my yard, if kids were running around outside. I'd certainly find a way to check what was going on but different people respond to situations differently. I'm pretty sound of mind and cautious (being a gun owner and CCW carrier) but i don't know how mentally stable the dude that popped some rounds off is. Up to this point, i've never taken my gun out of it's holster as a means to confront something that was happening around or in front of me.

I get that it would be startling or odd to see. But you can't just blast someone for it because you're scared.... as you also pointed out.

(03-20-2023, 10:46 PM)PDub80 Wrote: In the United States acourt of law would tell you it's a free country and that people of all ages can play with toy guns. They are LEGALLY ALLOWED TO, regardless of age. They can legally walk around with toy or wooden guns. Your opinion that it's childish or not what you prefer doesn't matter. The idea that anyone needs to have any kind of reaction to it is asinine. 

- In the United States kids and adults of all ages play with airsoft and paintball guns every day and it is perfectly legal. Kids and adults use toy guns to play with each other in their yards all the time. My kid has some huge Nerf guns. One is like the minigun, Old Painless, in Predator. I couldn't imagine playing Nerf with him in the front yard and someone next door being like "Honey, grab your Kriss Vector. Shit is going down!". You would have to be an absolute moron to do that.

BB Guns, Paintball guns, airsoft guns, Nerf guns.... Hell, I bought my 10 year old a full auto AK47 BB gun that uses CO2 cartridges and it is PERFECTLY LEGAL for us to shoot it in our yard whether my neighbor doesn't prefer it or not.

- You're actually allowed to pretend to be Rambo in the United States. You can pretend to be Cobra Commander, any Ninja Turtle you want, Sgt Slaughter, whatever.... You just can't actually do Rambo or Cobra Commander things and blast away at people for doing stuff you don't prefer them to do.

- Kids, specifically high school teens, play with wooden guns all the time.... every day in the United States... as members of their high school color guard teams. 



- What you prefer people to do doesn't give you or anyone else the right to shoot them for doing or not doing it. Before you say you didn't say that... WTF is your point, then? Just to be contrarian?

- The kids next to Joe Mixon's house were teens playing with Nerf guns. Perfectly legal. Just like my boy and I do in our yard.

In fact, the only illegal thing done in this discussion was Joe Mixon's family shooting a kid for playing outside. Regardless of their reasons, that was illegal on several different levels.

Playing with any of these things is legal and aren't deemed credible threats enough for private citizens to take a position of self defense in any way. What you or, more specifically, Joe Mixon's family prefers doesn't matter. You cannot shoot someone for playing guns in their yard because you don't like it.

You're just kinda making this up as you go along. 

I never said anyone can not do whatever they want in their own yard. My comments are directed at "walking around the neighborhood" and/or "on other folk's property". It's why I replied to a post about kids walking around approaching another's residence. 

I'm glad you've already determined who is culpable in the Mixon incident without knowing any/all facts. You'll save the taxpayers the unnecessary money of financing a trial. 

Really....their High School Color Guard Team? That's not playing with guns and it's damn sure not walking around a neighborhood or in someone else's yard with a gun. 

Can I come into your yard at night and play with my guns uninvited? I'm not saying if the guns are real or not

(03-20-2023, 10:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You're just kinda making this up as you go along. 

I never said anyone can not do whatever they want in their own yard. My comments are directed at "walking around the neighborhood" and/or "on other folk's property". It's why I replied to a post about kids walking around approaching another's residence. 

I'm glad you've already determined who is culpable in the Mixon incident without knowing any/all facts. You'll save the taxpayers the unnecessary money of financing a trial. 

Really....their High School Color Guard Team? That's not playing with guns and it's damn sure not walking around a neighborhood or in someone else's yard with a gun. 

Can I come into your yard at night and play with my guns uninvited? I'm not saying if the guns are real or not

- You're allowed to walk around neighborhoods and, yes, even step foot on someone else's property with toy guns.

- Given the facts presented thus far, I'm confident in my judgement, but open to appeals if new evidence comes out. Other than crossing your fingers for it, what other evidence or facts do you have that refute the police reports?

The tax payers will thank me later when I upgrade the stereos on their street car with the savings.

- The Wooden color guard gun comment was referencing the vague "people walking around with wood guns painted to look real". Who knows what that means? Wood color guard guns are a thing, so it is plausible teens would have them walking around.

- It wouldn't bother me if you did. If I was that worked up over it I would call the cops. I'm sure we would all bfine...

I brought this point up once and I will bring it up again because it goes to the core issue of this whole debate. You have to know what you are shooting at. Thats the law. You see this time and time again in hunting season where you have someone see movement in the woods and they just start shooting because they think its a deer or bear or whatever else and they end up shooting another person. You cant just start shooting at something when you dont clearly know what it is even if you think it may be a threat. Mixon's sister and her boyfriend are very lucky the outcome wasnt worse than what is was.

(03-20-2023, 09:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I did when I was about 5. I had a cap gun, a hat, and chaps. 

Did you continue to play with your Tommy Gun into your teens?  Seems to me the ones "playing Rambo' are the teens running around with guns; fake or otherwise. 

I don't get where you think I said anyone deserves to get shot. I'd just prefer teens not walk around neighborhoods with guns; real or otherwise. 

I'm all about personal responsibility. As to who gets to determine a credible threat? I'd go with a court of law. 

Hit.

(03-21-2023, 01:43 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Hit.

*runs camera*

Sent from my SM-S515DL using Tapatalk

(03-20-2023, 12:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, I fully concur that whoever picked up the brass did so in an attempt to "mask" evidence. I was just disagreeing with the notion that it meant the person didn't fear for their lives/property when they discharged the rounds. 

The question is "Why" the shots were fired and IMO IF the kid was on their property playing badass with his toy gun, he shares in the why. 

You do know there is a video of the shooting right? And a diagram showing where the kid was walking before the shooting and after he was shot and took cover next to a shrub called a tree a foot away from the corner of his house. The video was linked in this thread if you would like to get a better understanding of what took place.

The video of the shooting is Joe Mixons sercurity cams.

(03-20-2023, 07:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But you seem to understand or at least not comment on walking down the street with objects designed to look like assault weapons. I don't understand why someone would do that and not expect to provoke a reaction. 

Because you can walk down the street in some states with a fully loaded AR15 and be completely legal and within your rights. We have the right to bare arms in this country.

(03-21-2023, 07:48 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: Because you can walk down the street in some states with a fully loaded AR15 and be completely legal and within your rights. We have the right to bare arms in this country.

You're right, you can, but just because you can do something doesn't mean it's smart. This whole argument has gone off the rails. Some people want to blame Mixon, some people want to blame the kids. Now somehow a plastic gun has become a wooden gun. If wea re going to blame someone, how about blaming the guy who fired the shots. 

Look, Joe Mixon' sister is obviously hanging out with a felon who still carries a gun in violation of the law. You can't pick your family. Best thing he could do is bar her from bringing this clown around. I highly doubt anyone was scared. More likely he went out and yelled at them to get off the lawn and got a smartass response and got mad. That will all work itself out in court. My only responses in this thread were to incorrect statements about real guns never being colorful, home invasions never happening in rich neighborhoods, etc. 

I think it's time for the team to move on from Mixon, but it's not due to this incident, I just think he's done and I get tired of seeing him run into the back of our line and falling down. 

(03-21-2023, 08:03 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You're right, you can, but just because you can do something doesn't mean it's smart. This whole argument has gone off the rails. Some people want to blame Mixon, some people want to blame the kids. Now somehow a plastic gun has become a wooden gun. If wea re going to blame someone, how about blaming the guy who fired the shots. 

Look, Joe Mixon' sister is obviously hanging out with a felon who still carries a gun in violation of the law. You can't pick your family. Best thing he could do is bar her from bringing this clown around. I highly doubt anyone was scared. More likely he went out and yelled at them to get off the lawn and got a smartass response and got mad. That will all work itself out in court. My only responses in this thread were to incorrect statements about real guns never being colorful, home invasions never happening in rich neighborhoods, etc. 

I think it's time for the team to move on from Mixon, but it's not due to this incident, I just think he's done and I get tired of seeing him run into the back of our line and falling down. 

Or being tackled at first contact the guy goes down too easy.

(03-21-2023, 08:11 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: Or being tackled at first contact the guy goes down too easy.

Right. So we can agree to leave it at that and just want a BETTER running back.