(03-21-2023, 11:19 AM)Housh Wrote: James Rapien of Locked on Bengals said he’s coming back or came back for a second visit

Gotcha, thanks.

I’d think a second visit portends a signing. This would be a good pickup


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(03-21-2023, 09:48 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Moreau is a good talent and I'm especially liking the idea of signing him so Duke isn't beholden to picking a TE in the '23 draft. If Moreau joins the team then Duke has options to use round 1 for a Mayer or Washington type or he can wait until later rounds to look at LaPorta or even Kraft, Schoonmaker, or Whyle. Duke could even ignore TE altogether and look at other positions.

If we go into the draft without Moreau then I contend there is a more urgent need to draft one.

I've not looked ahead. Are there any anticipated June 1 cuts the Bengals might target as a FA during the summer at the TE position?

I'm so against a 1st Round TE. I think there are other bang for the buck positions.

I don’t see anything about him having a 2nd visit. Checked Rapien’s twitter and everything.

(03-21-2023, 11:27 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm so against a 1st Round TE. I think there are other bang for the buck positions.

TE and RB in the first round are just a no go for me. There are so many better ways to spend that pick. Having a good CB, DE or OT on a rookie deal is infinitely more valuable than having a TE or a RB on a rookie deal. The surplus value in the former cases vs the latter cases is insane. 

To put it another way, it doesn't matter how good the incoming rookie class is, a top 10 OT is not signing a 1 year 9 million dollar prove it deal.

And RBs have so little value that second contracts for running backs are being regretted across the NFL daily. Titans are shopping Henry, Elliot was cut, Mixon is being talked about as a cut, Aaron Jones took a pay cut, Kamara may go to jail (granted, unrelated to his play on the field but still noteworthy).

Maybe Dalvin Cook? I'm not sure.

(03-21-2023, 11:45 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: TE and RB in the first round are just a no go for me. There are so many better ways to spend that pick. Having a good CB, DE or OT on a rookie deal is infinitely more valuable than having a TE or a RB on a rookie deal. The surplus value in the former cases vs the latter cases is insane. 

To put it another way, it doesn't matter how good the incoming rookie class is, a top 10 OT is not signing a 1 year 9 million dollar prove it deal.

I’m with you both on this. Especially given that tight ends don’t typically hit the ground running their rookie season. By the way, it was just reported Schultz signed for $6.25m with $2.75m in incentives. What are they waiting on?

(03-21-2023, 11:27 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm so against a 1st Round TE. I think there are other bang for the buck positions.

I'm against a RB in round 1 and probably round 2 alot of the time especially depending on the amount of abuse he took in college. The days in college of backs running 30-35 carries are pretty much a thing of the past and, ironically, you'll see 2 5-star/high 4-star RB's commit to the same school to eliminate wear and tear to protect their careers..

But when you find elite, athletic TE's that can block, run and get open that's a definite weapon and a 3 down player. I have no issue spending a 1st on that type of player because he's the best of both worlds in the run game, the short pass game, downfield plus the opportunities he opens up for your WR's to get more single coverage.

(03-21-2023, 11:48 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: I’m with you both on this. Especially given that tight ends don’t typically hit the ground running their rookie season. By the way, it was just reported Schultz signed for $6.25m with $2.75m in incentives. What are they waiting on?

That's even sadder haha. I knew Gesicki signed an. Incentive laden deal, but I thought Dalton's was at least a clean 9M. What an indictment of the value the NFL places on the position. 

(03-21-2023, 11:45 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: TE and RB in the first round are just a no go for me. There are so many better ways to spend that pick. Having a good CB, DE or OT on a rookie deal is infinitely more valuable than having a TE or a RB on a rookie deal. The surplus value in the former cases vs the latter cases is insane. 

To put it another way, it doesn't matter how good the incoming rookie class is, a top 10 OT is not signing a 1 year 9 million dollar prove it deal.

And RBs have so little value that second contracts for running backs are being regretted across the NFL daily. Titans are shopping Henry, Elliot was cut, Mixon is being talked about as a cut, Aaron Jones took a pay cut, Kamara may go to jail (granted, unrelated to his play on the field but still noteworthy).

Maybe Dalvin Cook? I'm not sure.

I just did a mock on PFF.

1 - Anton Harrison - T - Oklahoma
2 - A Adebawore - DE - Northwestern - Freak athlete
3 - Hodges-Tomlinson - CB - TCU
4 - D McBride - HB - UAB
5 - Moro Ojomo - DI - Texas (It graded this an A+)
6 - Will Mallory - TE - Miami
7 - Mohamed Ibrahim - HB - Minnesotta

It graded my draft an A. But, where we picked in the 1st...I would have been reaching on a RB or TE.

(03-21-2023, 11:27 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm so against a 1st Round TE. I think there are other bang for the buck positions.

I don't know a good TE can be a weapon in the middle of the field. I'm not talkng iTravis Kelce numbers but more like 55 to 65 catches 700 750 yards (the rest of the top 10 TE's lol). That's good slot receiver numbers and with Boyd likely gone in 2024 having that TE already in the offense could be big. 

Kyle Pitts was the best TE to come out in a long time but didn't move the needle for ATL at all compared to what Chase, Sewell, Slater and other top 10 picks of 2021 did for their franchises.

(03-21-2023, 01:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: Kyle Pitts was the best TE to come out in a long time but didn't move the needle for ATL at all compared to what Chase, Sewell, Slater and other top 10 picks of 2021 did for their franchises.

Atlanta also NOTORIOUSLY did not feature Pitts like they should have. This is all known around Atlanta. YouTube the phrase “Why is Kyle Pitts not getting the ball” and you’ll see hundreds of videos detailing the issue. They drafted a TE then proceeded to switch to a run heavy offense. That’s a sign of shit coaching and picking BPA without actually caring how they fit.

If that same Kyle Pitts went to Dallas or somewhere he’d look like a top 5 TE.

(03-21-2023, 12:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I just did a mock on PFF.

1 - Anton Harrison - T - Oklahoma
2 - A Adebawore - DE - Northwestern - Freak athlete
3 - Hodges-Tomlinson - CB - TCU
4 - D McBride - HB - UAB
5 - Moro Ojomo - DI - Texas (It graded this an A+)
6 - Will Mallory - TE - Miami
7 - Mohamed Ibrahim - HB - Minnesotta

It graded my draft an A. But, where we picked in the 1st...I would have been reaching on a RB or TE.

I 100% would take an OT over a TE in the 1st round, especially this draft that is deep at TE but not at OT.

(03-21-2023, 01:17 PM)Housh Wrote: Atlanta also NOTORIOUSLY did not feature Pitts like they should have. This is all known around Atlanta. YouTube the phrase “Why is Kyle Pitts not getting the ball” and you’ll see hundreds of videos detailing the issue. They drafted a TE then proceeded to switch to a run heavy offense. That’s a sign of shit coaching and picking BPA without actually caring how they fit.

If that same Kyle Pitts went to Dallas or somewhere he’d look like a top 5 TE.

I'm not surprised ATL is switching to a run-heavy offense.
Arthur Smith was the OC for the Titans after all.

And yea, as you said, Pitts' targets dropped by 50%.
He still averaged 12.7 YPC last year, so he needs to be used more.
Maybe part of it is the cluster of a QB situation they had, but the 4th overall pick should be more than 3rd on the pecking order.
London and Pitts should be the dynamic duo in the passing game with promising Allgeier in the running game.
Looking back at Smith's offenses in TEN, the TE was definitely lower on the pecking order, which makes you scratch your head why they spent such a high pick on a TE if they aren't going to use him properly.

(03-21-2023, 01:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: Kyle Pitts was the best TE to come out in a long time but didn't move the needle for ATL at all compared to what Chase, Sewell, Slater and other top 10 picks of 2021 did for their franchises.

Atlanta is in a clear teardown/rebuild though compared to the others. Putting up 1k yards for 15ypr in your rookie year is nothing shabby though. No single player outside of a top tier QB is going to turn a franchise around in 1-2 years. 

(03-21-2023, 01:52 PM)TheFan Wrote: Atlanta is in a clear teardown/rebuild though compared to the others. Putting up 1k yards for 15ypr in your rookie year is nothing shabby though. No single player outside of a top tier QB is going to turn a franchise around in 1-2 years. 

I guess you’d have to ask would Jamarr Chase have lit the world up the same way if say the 49ers drafted him


And to that i have to say yea. Justin Jefferson is also a guy who i think is a non QB that’s good enough to turn around a franchise.
Kinda hard to make those statements when those guys play with such good QBs Though.

(03-21-2023, 01:54 PM)Housh Wrote: I guess you’d have to ask would Jamarr Chase have lit the world up the same way if say the 49ers drafted him


And to that i have to say yea. Justin Jefferson is also a guy who i think is a non QB that’s good enough to turn around a franchise.
Kinda hard to make those statements when those guys play with such good QBs Though.

In my opinion If you put Chase or Jefferson on Atlanta with Mariota/Ridder as QB they aren't putting up these stats and don't become a playoff caliber team. 

If you switch Pitts with either I think both Bengals and Vikings are still playoff teams. I think our QB, coach, team and offensive scheme is just way better than what's going on in ATL the last 2 years.

(03-21-2023, 11:45 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: TE and RB in the first round are just a no go for me. There are so many better ways to spend that pick. Having a good CB, DE or OT on a rookie deal is infinitely more valuable than having a TE or a RB on a rookie deal. The surplus value in the former cases vs the latter cases is insane. 

To put it another way, it doesn't matter how good the incoming rookie class is, a top 10 OT is not signing a 1 year 9 million dollar prove it deal.

And RBs have so little value that second contracts for running backs are being regretted across the NFL daily. Titans are shopping Henry, Elliot was cut, Mixon is being talked about as a cut, Aaron Jones took a pay cut, Kamara may go to jail (granted, unrelated to his play on the field but still noteworthy).

Maybe Dalvin Cook? I'm not sure.

I think this is sound reasoning. However, I am a bit less fanatical about it. There comes a point where the value of the players available at the higher value positions is lower than that of the value of the players at the lower value positions. 

I'd rather have the stud TE, RB, LB, C, G, or S than reach for a OT, WR, CB, DE whom isn't significantly better than the guys available in Rd2 at those spots. 

If you offered me Creed Humphrey for 5 years at #28, I'd take him. You? I'd haveno problem taking Micah Parsons or Christian McCaffery or Travis Kelcie or George Kittle at #28. 

Plus, we already have stud level guys at QB, LT, WR1, WR2, DE, and NT. My #1 option is always gonna be the stud level guy (all pro/pro bowl level) at a premium position. But I'd rather take the exceptional guy at a lower value position than the average guy at the high value position. Especially if there is no glaring need there. 

I'd take Wright, Van Ness, Kancey, or any of the top 3 CBs (Witherspoon, Gonzalez, Porter) if available. But if it is Banks, Dawand Jones, Keon White, and Bijan Robinson? That is closer. TE value is so good I probably wait, but Washington really has unicorn potential. He is almost like taking a RT. 

(03-21-2023, 01:25 PM)Garrus Wrote: I 100% would take an OT over a TE in the 1st round, especially this draft that is deep at TE but not at OT.

^^^^^^^

I agree 100%. I can see a very good TE available in round 2 for us. I don't see a great OL/OT available in round 2.

But, I could also see us taking a CB with 1st pick.

(03-21-2023, 01:25 PM)Garrus Wrote: I 100% would take an OT over a TE in the 1st round, especially this draft that is deep at TE but not at OT.

Pretty good chance if Moreau doesn’t come they will draft a TE 1. Adebawore Won’t be there in the second.