(03-21-2023, 12:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Brown is an upgrade over injured last season Jonah.

Not sure Brown is an upgrade over the Jonah from 2 years ago.

But, out of 4 NFL Seasons, Jonah has only been above average to good once.

Jonah's great season of 2021 he did post a slightly higher PFF than Brown but Jonah still gave up 8 sacks.  Brown gave up 4.

This is great. Zeus is so intelligent and the Mayfield story.
https://youtu.be/_VKG4_L5zNA

(03-21-2023, 12:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Brown is an upgrade over injured last season Jonah.

Not sure Brown is an upgrade over the Jonah from 2 years ago.

But, out of 4 NFL Seasons, Jonah has only been above average to good once.

Brown is a four time probowler (take pro bowls for what they are worth) who has given up just one more sack in his career (13) than Jonah gave up last year (12).

2021 was forever ago, and even then Jonah really was “ok” at best.

2022-2023 jonah stinks. He was just as much a weak link as the rest of the OL from 2022. We just wanted so bad for it to pan out. I’m glad that the bengals agreed.

(03-22-2023, 12:28 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Brown is a four time probowler (take pro bowls for what they are worth) who has given up just one more sack in his career (13) than Jonah gave up last year (12).

2021 was forever ago, and even then Jonah really was “ok” at best.

2022-2023 jonah stinks. He was just as much a weak link as the rest of the OL from 2022. We just wanted so bad for it to pan out. I’m glad that the bengals agreed.

OBJr is a borderline top 10 tackle. Williams in his best year wasn’t.

(03-22-2023, 01:24 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: OBJr is a borderline top 10 tackle. Williams in his best year wasn’t.

PFF had Williams’ 2021 higher than Brown’s best year

So do we keep referencing pro bowls and pff or not? Seems like you guys just reference it when convenient for whatever point you’re trying to make

(03-22-2023, 12:28 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Brown is a four time probowler (take pro bowls for what they are worth) who has given up just one more sack in his career (13) than Jonah gave up last year (12).


2022-2023 jonah stinks. He was just as much a weak link as the rest of the OL from 2022. We just wanted so bad for it to pan out. I’m glad that the bengals agreed.

pro bowls isn’t an argument

And we’re just gonna ignore the dislocated knee thing when referencing his 2022? lol

His 2020 was promising, his 2021 was better, and then he suddenly became bad out of nowhere? No, it was clearly playing through a knee injury

Here's the thread with both of their PFF scores for every year, also by run block and pass block:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-For-those-interested-Orlando-Brown-PFF-grades

Jonah's best pass blocking year was 2020 at 75.8. Orlando Brown Jr. beat that 4 out of his 5 seasons (only his 2018 rookie campaign was lower).

Jonah's best run blocking year was 2021 at 79.8. Orlando Brown Jr's best run blocking year was 2020 at 73.0.

2022 Jonah clearly struggled and yes having both knees be dislocated at different points did not help things. And injury history is a big issue here - 2021 is the only complete season he has played. 24 games missed in his first 4 seasons.

(03-22-2023, 01:27 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: PFF had Williams’ 2021 higher than Brown’s best year

So do we keep referencing pro bowls and pff or not? Seems like you guys just reference it when convenient for whatever point you’re trying to make

And yet Williams still gave up 8 sacks in his best season. The most Brown has ever given up in a season is 4. We get it you like Jonah that is awesome. However, your trying to degrade a quality player like Orlando Brown Jr. because of your passion for Jonah is kind of ridiculous. Jonah is not terrible but he also is not above average because of injuries and sacks allowed. Those are two very important parts of the puzzle.

(03-22-2023, 09:15 AM)OSUfan Wrote: And yet Williams still gave up 8 sacks in his best season. The most Brown has ever given up in a season is 4. We get it you like Jonah that is awesome. However, your trying to degrade a quality player like Orlando Brown Jr. because of your passion for Jonah is kind of ridiculous. Jonah is not terrible but he also is not above average because of injuries and sacks allowed. Those are two very important parts of the puzzle.

Seems this way

(03-22-2023, 09:15 AM)OSUfan Wrote: And yet Williams still gave up 8 sacks in his best season. The most Brown has ever given up in a season is 4. We get it you like Jonah that is awesome. However, your trying to degrade a quality player like Orlando Brown Jr. because of your passion for Jonah is kind of ridiculous. Jonah is not terrible but he also is not above average because of injuries and sacks allowed. Those are two very important parts of the puzzle.

Ok so if I catch you referencing pff when discussing which player is better, I’m gonna remind you that Jonah’s best year is graded higher than any Orlando Brown year. And that was the 8 sacks year, which you love to bring up

Crazy how when we get good guys, other teams’ fans just HAVE to act like he sucks now lol


I didn’t think about it but after winning so many games and destroying so many teams, fans are gonna start to hate us. It’s hilarious because we’ve been the leagues doormat for decades and now that we finally can win consistently we now have haters lol

(03-22-2023, 11:42 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Ok so if I catch you referencing pff when discussing which player is better, I’m gonna remind you that Jonah’s best year is graded higher than any Orlando Brown year. And that was the 8 sacks year, which you love to bring up

Feel free to bring that up any time you wish. That also does nothing to change the fact that even in his best season Jonah still allowed 8 sacks while in Orlando's worst season he didn't give up 8 sacks. So we can put you down for not finding it important for your QB not to get sacked correct?

(03-22-2023, 02:47 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Feel free to bring that up any time you wish. That also does nothing to change the fact that even in his best season Jonah still allowed 8 sacks while in Orlando's worst season he didn't give up 8 sacks. So we can put you down for not finding it important for your QB not to get sacked correct?

I do think the Sacks will start to go down even if Burrow gets sacked more than most QB's with Orlando Brown here and Ted, Alex
and company growing chemistry together. Going to be fun times.

(03-22-2023, 02:47 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Feel free to bring that up any time you wish. That also does nothing to change the fact that even in his best season Jonah still allowed 8 sacks while in Orlando's worst season he didn't give up 8 sacks. So we can put you down for not finding it important for your QB not to get sacked correct?

We’ve all seen Jonah. This year was bad and he’s not that bad as I think his injuries factored. But you and Frank can go back and forth but anybody comparing the two’s overall body of work Brown’s is better. I do agree with Frank that Brown is overrated on here and Jonah underrated. But we’ve upgraded. Orlando has never had a really bad year like Jonah.

(03-22-2023, 03:04 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: We’ve all seen Jonah. This year was bad and he’s not that bad as I think his injuries factored. But you and Frank can go back and forth but anybody comparing the two’s overall body of work Brown’s is better. I do agree with Frank that Brown is overrated on here and Jonah underrated. But we’ve upgraded. Orlando has never had a really bad year like Jonah.

I have already stated that Jonah is not a terrible LT and in fact he is a very average LT and there is value in that. However, availability is a huge asset when it comes to being a player and unfortunately he has missed a considerable amount of time since he has been in the league. I would think the major issue that most have with Jonah is how often he is able to be driven backward to the QB. You will have a hard time overpowering Orlando Brown Jr. I agree that many are attempting to degrade the game of Jonah in an attempt to elevate the position of Brown. 

The fact is that even in his worst graded season Orlando gave up no more than 4 sacks and in Jonah's best graded season he gave up 8 sacks. Those are the facts of the situation. Protecting the franchise means keeping him standing.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jonah-williams/32005749-4c13-2676-fb3e-2b3d97cbfc66

The Bengals are responsible for Jonah not living up to his draft reputation.

"His cerebral nature and potential versatility should make him a safe pick and successful, long-time starter in the NFL."

(03-22-2023, 03:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jonah-williams/32005749-4c13-2676-fb3e-2b3d97cbfc66

The Bengals are responsible for Jonah not living up to his draft reputation.

"His cerebral nature and potential versatility should make him a safe pick and successful, long-time starter in the NFL."

Oh do tell...this should be rich.

(03-22-2023, 04:13 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Oh do tell...this should be rich.

Tell what?

How many Bengals lineman over the last 5 years improved from Year 1 to Years 2, 3, 4?

Guys started like MJ and stayed the same or got worse.

Pretty clear that they struggle to develop offensive lineman.

(03-22-2023, 03:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jonah-williams/32005749-4c13-2676-fb3e-2b3d97cbfc66

The Bengals are responsible for Jonah not living up to his draft reputation.

"His cerebral nature and potential versatility should make him a safe pick and successful, long-time starter in the NFL."

Yeah, they should have done a better job coaching up his kneecaps. 

(03-22-2023, 04:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Tell what?

How many Bengals lineman over the last 5 years improved from Year 1 to Years 2, 3, 4?

Guys started like MJ and stayed the same or got worse.

Pretty clear that they struggle to develop offensive lineman.

So the player holds no responsibility in his development? Oh wait as was pointed out earlier his highest graded season was in 2021 which was a pretty good jump from that of 2020 so would you not say that was improvement? What they cannot help is his inability to stay healthy.