(03-23-2023, 11:24 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Plug and playing a rookie tight end isn’t ideal

(03-23-2023, 11:25 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This sounds like a bad plan for a team that's currently in a Super Bowl window. 

Sample missed most of the year last year with an injured knee/surgery and to be honest, doesn't give you really anything in the passing game. Relying on a rookie tight end to produce is a huge question mark. 

I don't understand why it's so hard for this team to sign a veteran tight end to a reasonable 1 or 2 year deal. Those kinds of deals are being made by other teams - they are there for the taking. I am not sure if this FO is asleep at the wheel or has some master plan but they need to act quick because the amount of quality TEs out there is dwindling fast. 

Probably because the TE draft best in 10 years by most accounts.

(03-23-2023, 10:24 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Wright over Jones all day.  It appears he will defitniely be going higher and he played against the very best every season.

Jones refusing to test is not a good thing at all, especially for us.

I watched Wright get bull rushed two or three plays at 328 pounds if you cannot anchor at that weight, it's a problem that I do not trust our O-line coach to fix.

(03-22-2023, 10:29 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I believe they will look to bring back Wilcox and I would not be shocked to see Sample back either. Even with this news I still do not believe there is true value in a first round TE for this offense. The most targets a TE has had under this staff was 68 last season with Hurst when we were seeing predominantly two high safeties. The TE in this scheme has average under 4.25 targets a game and I do not see how you put value in that with a first round selection.

Well, if we get a TE that Burrow likes to target instead of being the last option the targets and YPC for the TE would most definitely go 
up drastically. I still want Darnell Wright, DaWand Jones and Bergeron but if Mayer is there or we really think we can grow Washington
in the passing game it is possible we use a TE much more. I know people will mention Drew Sample being a 2nd round pick, but he was
overdrafted and it was a late 2nd round pick and he was drafted to block. We are a passing Offense now, much more so then back then.

(03-23-2023, 12:16 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: He's been being mocked in the top 20 in two recent mocks that I've read. Can't remember the team but he might not make it to the late 20s.

Okay, well that takes him out of our thoughts then, been seeing Mayer taken by us in a lot of mocks lately.

I have to be open to the possibility now.

(03-23-2023, 01:29 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I watched Wright get bull rushed two or three plays at 328 pounds if you cannot anchor at that weight, it's a problem that I do not trust our O-line coach to fix.

Is there ANY OT that's never been bull rushed? He's 333 pounds, has elite athleticism for the position and allowed zero sacks playing one of the toughest schedules in the nation including Will Anderson from Alabama whom he shut down and then Anderson said he was the best OT he's faced. 

In 2022 as a senior Wright saw action in 12 games and played a total of 829 snaps for the Volunteers. He allowed a solid 5 QB hurries, 2 QB hits, and no sacks while playing at right tackle.

(03-23-2023, 01:39 PM)Memphis_Bengal Wrote: Is there ANY OT that's never been bull rushed? He's 333 pounds, has elite athleticism for the position and allowed zero sacks playing one of the toughest schedules in the nation including Will Anderson from Alabama whom he shut down and then Anderson said he was the best OT he's faced. 

In 2022 as a senior Wright saw action in 12 games and played a total of 829 snaps for the Volunteers. He allowed a solid 5 QB hurries, 2 QB hits, and no sacks while playing at right tackle.

I guess I cannot have an opinion on who I would like better. Both are going to be gone by mid second round but I am wrong cause you are right lol laughable.

(03-23-2023, 01:42 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I guess I cannot have an opinion on who I would like better. Both are going to be gone by mid second round but I am wrong cause you are right lol laughable.

Answer his simple question about ANY OT that's never been bull rushed before you toss a tantrum.

(03-23-2023, 01:29 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I watched Wright get bull rushed two or three plays at 328 pounds if you cannot anchor at that weight, it's a problem that I do not trust our O-line coach to fix.

Not sure what film you were watching but I watched Alabama and Georgia and those were the games that won me over about selecting Wright. Even with less than elite technique all of the time his pure strength can save him. Yep, every once in awhile even the best will get beat one way or another but that does not diminish their overall talent.

(03-23-2023, 01:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, if we get a TE that Burrow likes to target instead of being the last option the targets and YPC for the TE would most definitely go 
up drastically. I still want Darnell Wright, DaWand Jones and Bergeron but if Mayer is there or we really think we can grow Washington
in the passing game it is possible we use a TE much more. I know people will mention Drew Sample being a 2nd round pick, but he was
overdrafted and it was a late round pick and he was drafted to block. We are a passing Offense now, much more so then back then.


Okay, well that takes him out of our thoughts then, been seeing Mayer taken by us in a lot of mocks lately.

I have to be open to the possibility now.

I completely understand what you are saying Nate but you have to consider the scheme as well. Primarily the Cincinnati TE is a blocker and after that a safety valve, and then there are situational routes where the TE is used to exploit the seams or to settle down into the open area of a zone. I think Joe liked targeting both Hurst and Uzomah however the scheme limits the route tree for the TE.

(03-23-2023, 01:39 PM)Memphis_Bengal Wrote: Is there ANY OT that's never been bull rushed? He's 333 pounds, has elite athleticism for the position and allowed zero sacks playing one of the toughest schedules in the nation including Will Anderson from Alabama whom he shut down and then Anderson said he was the best OT he's faced. 

In 2022 as a senior Wright saw action in 12 games and played a total of 829 snaps for the Volunteers. He allowed a solid 5 QB hurries, 2 QB hits, and no sacks while playing at right tackle.

This, plus Wright played against top competition at RT. He just fits what we need to a T.

(03-23-2023, 01:42 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I guess I cannot have an opinion on who I would like better. Both are going to be gone by mid second round but I am wrong cause you are right lol laughable.

Well I mean, doesn't matter how big or strong an OL is if they are caught off guard on a certain play which is what I assume happened
when he did get bullrushed a few times. When Darnell Wright is ready and prepared pre snap, he dominates everybody. DaWand Jones 
fits us to a point, big dude, tough to get around and fits a Gap scheme which I assume we will run with Orlando's addition.

Bergeron is a mean, nasty sumbitch in the run game too who I really like. Not as big on Anton Harrison as I think he is more for a RPO
type of Offense and being a LT which we now have. Harrison is a bit finesse for my liking even if he is really good.

(03-23-2023, 01:45 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Answer his simple question about ANY OT that's never been bull rushed before you toss a tantrum.

I do not need to answer any question do I. We both have a choice of two RT in this draft Dewan or Darnell lots of drafts have them within 4 or so picks of each other. Pick one I will not point out what is wrong with your choice or expect you to defend it or answer any questions I pose to you. Why because I am not obligated to do so it is my choice to choose between the two tackles and I chose Dewan weather you like it or not.

(03-23-2023, 01:49 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I completely understand what you are saying Nate but you have to consider the scheme as well. Primarily the Cincinnati TE is a blocker and after that a safety valve, and then there are situational routes where the TE is used to exploit the seams or to settle down into the open area of a zone. I think Joe liked targeting both Hurst and Uzomah however the scheme limits the route tree for the TE.

True enough, cannot argue with that. Would have to switch up the scheme a bit if we added a route running, pass catching TE.

But we have been visiting with all the top TE's in this draft so I am just preparing myself.

(03-23-2023, 11:24 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Plug and playing a rookie tight end isn’t ideal

Jermaine Gresham did it in 2010 just fine.
83 targets, 52 rec for 471 yards and 4 TDs.
And he had Chad and TO ahead of him on the targets, and just above slot Jordan Shipley.

If a TE at 28 can do about that, that's perfectly ok with me.

And I think there will be multiple TEs in this draft that can hit that mark as rookies.

(03-23-2023, 01:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This, plus Wright played against top competition at RT. He just fits what we need to a T.


Well I mean, doesn't matter how big or strong an OL is if they are caught off guard on a certain play which is what I assume happened
when he did get bullrushed a few times. When Darnell Wright is ready and prepared pre snap, he dominates everybody. DaWand Jones 
fits us to a point, big dude, tough to get around and fits a Gap scheme which I assume we will run with Orlando's addition.

Bergeron is a mean, nasty sumbitch in the run game too who I really like. Not as big on Anton Harrison as I think he is more for a RPO
type of Offense and being a LT which we now have. Harrison is a bit finesse for my liking even if he is really good.

Only think worrying me about Jones is that weight ballooning to 400 lbs.along with knees going to hell. He lost lbs. at OSU and then at the combine he was in the 370 range.

(03-23-2023, 12:45 PM)Synric Wrote: I hate the argument against drafting a Tight End because the production has been mediocre from that position group. The main reason there has been average production is because they have had average Tight Ends.

No that would simply be your opinion as to why. The targets have remained rather steady since Taylor and his staff have taken over the helm here in Cincinnati. The production per targets has not been that bad since they have been in charge. So you do not suppose at all that the TE output has anything to do with the scheme that Cincinnati employs? You do not feel there is a reason that the staff maintains such an emphasis on the blocking ability of the TE here in Cincinnati? You do not feel that when they drafted Sample and stressed heavily that he was the best blocking TE in the class that it was all smoke and mirrors?

(03-23-2023, 01:45 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Not sure what film you were watching but I watched Alabama and Georgia and those were the games that won me over about selecting Wright. Even with less than elite technique all of the time his pure strength can save him. Yep, every once in awhile even the best will get beat one way or another but that does not diminish their overall talent.

I was watching a film breakdown of the senior bowl practice tape it happened 2 or 3 times within an hour that is a concern to me. If we choose the other dude cool I will root for the guy. But I can still have an opinion of which I like better. Or at least we use to have this choice in America not so sure anymore.

(03-23-2023, 01:42 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I guess I cannot have an opinion on who I would like better. Both are going to be gone by mid second round but I am wrong cause you are Wright lol laughable.

fyp haha. I just offered a counter to your point. That's the way reasonable discourse works. 

(03-23-2023, 12:47 PM)phil413 Wrote: It's good to note that there are many stable TE3 types that can at least help block if pressed for TE2 work for a few games.  I also agree that ideal TE1 guys are not available via FA.  

They need to take advantage of what is available.  It's been said that Irv Smith Jr. could bet on himself as a showcase TE. He would see the writing on the wall that Cincy could go TE as early as the 1st, but he still has a(n injury prone) leg up as a vet.  They could still double dip at TE, with Asiasi being TE4.  

That opens the door to another convo.  If they end up with more move type TEs or big slot types, at what point do you finally consider snaps outside for Boyd?  I get that his bread and butter is in the spot, but rather than be so loyal to ST types mailing it in outside, you have better talent inside including the slot type guys behind Boyd.  Even if they draft a WR, the learning curve can be higher. So, TE looks bare at the moment but we could actually still stack enough NFL ready talent to make it a strength.  Even if Burrow likes 4 wide sets, a few of those wides could be spit out TEs. 

Not many agree with me, but I think upgrading our WR depth is important. I firmly believe we win the Chief's game if Boyd does not get hurt. After that, they swarmed Chase & Higgins and no one else could consistently get open. 

Now, adding a legit 4th weapon on offense does not necessarily have to be a WR. An early TE (Mayer, Kincaid, etc) fills that role. As would Bijan Robinson. If JSN or Flowers is there at #28, I'd strongly consider it. But I think it unlikely. 

Even if we go TE early, I'd still like a day 3 WR. Whether it is a slot/Taylor upgrade (Charlie Jones, Parker Washington), a good blocker who can actually get open/Morgan upgrade (Ronnie Bell) or some deep speed in any form outside of Chase (Mingo, Iosivas, Ford-Wheaton). 

(03-23-2023, 01:57 PM)Memphis_Bengal Wrote: fyp haha. I just offered a counter to your point. That's the way reasonable discourse works. 

And I can choose to overlook a silly question if I think it does not merit an answer.

(03-23-2023, 10:45 AM)Graphicguy Wrote: Yeah…but with a better TE, the targets would probably go up.


Like this plan, a lot.

I think with the “non-movement” on Mixon, they’re looking to the draft.  That is, unless he agrees to a pay cut.  There are just too many good RBs in this draft.  True of TE’s, too.

That is pure speculation. As I said in another reply, the targets within this offense under Taylor and his staff has remained really consistent. The guys we have had in Uzomah and Hurst have had really decent production for the targets they have had. However, there is a reason that Taylor and his staff stress blocking by the TE and that is because the blocking by the TE is critical to the way their scheme functions. That is why a Mike Gesicki would not be a good fit within this scheme. Yeah he is an outstanding receiver but his weakness is inline blocking.

(03-23-2023, 01:56 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Only thing worrying me about Jones is that weight ballooning to 400 lbs along with knees going to hell. He lost lbs. at OSU and then at the combine he was in the 370 range.

Yes, that would have to be the concern with DaWand. But Jason Peters was a monster and lasted forever yah never know.

(03-23-2023, 01:58 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Not many agree with me, but I think upgrading our WR depth is important. I firmly believe we win the Chief's game if Boyd does not get hurt. After that, they swarmed Chase & Higgins and no one else could consistently get open. 

Now, adding a legit 4th weapon on offense does not necessarily have to be a WR. An early TE (Mayer, Kincaid, etc) fills that role. As would Bijan Robinson. If JSN or Flowers is there at #28, I'd strongly consider it. But I think it unlikely. 

Even if we go TE early, I'd still like a day 3 WR. Whether it is a slot/Taylor upgrade (Charlie Jones, Parker Washington), a good blocker who can actually get open/Morgan upgrade (Ronnie Bell) or some deep speed in any form outside of Chase (Mingo, Iosivas, Ford-Wheaton). 

I guess I am not against adding another talented WR for depth. Just don't know if this is the year to do it or not.

TE seems like the bigger hole right now and if we get a good Receiving TE that could be the answer you are looking for at least this year.