(03-23-2023, 01:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Jermaine Gresham did it in 2010 just fine.
83 targets, 52 rec for 471 yards and 4 TDs.
And he had Chad and TO ahead of him on the targets, and just above slot Jordan Shipley.

If a TE at 28 can do about that, that's perfectly ok with me.

And I think there will be multiple TEs in this draft that can hit that mark as rookies.

those targets to receptions isnt ideal. at all. Especially for this offense

(03-23-2023, 10:49 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: We have not had a real impactful TE under Taylor, CJ had one year rhat pout him probably top 15 and Hurst had middle of road stats as a TE, FACT.

You can throw FACT in there but it really means nothing. What is relative is the use of the TE within the scheme. Mike Gesicki is a great receiving TE but what he is not is a great blocking TE. So do you believe sticking him in the scheme that Taylor and his staff use makes the offense better or worse? Middle of the road in receiving is more than likely going to be common in this scheme because the blocking of the TE is critical within the scheme. Not sure how you make this much cleared to people. Not all players fit in all schemes. Can you adjust here and there within a scheme to cater more to an individual players strengths? Sure you can however changing the blocking role of the TE within this scheme is far more than a tweak.

(03-23-2023, 02:01 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: And I can choose to overlook a silly question if I think it does not merit an answer.

LMAO. Barry Bonds struck out 1600 times in his career. Stephen Curry shoots under 50%. Tom Brady threw almost 240 int's.
And Darnell Wright got bull-rushed a couple times. Hello, McFly !!

(03-23-2023, 01:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True enough, cannot argue with that. Would have to switch up the scheme a bit if we added a route running, pass catching TE.

But we have been visiting with all the top TE's in this draft so I am just preparing myself.

I believe more than anything they are looking for a well rounded TE which is what they had in Uzomah and Hurst. Their skillsets fit really well with what this offense does and they are both sure handed receivers that can make the tough catch and that look for yards after catch. With that said they are really good blockers as well and that is crucially important. I feel their are a number of TEs that fit that billing in this draft.

(03-23-2023, 10:49 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: We have not had a real impactful TE under Taylor, CJ had one year rhat pout him probably top 15 and Hurst had middle of road stats as a TE, FACT.

I think that is completely by design in his offensive system, as he only targets the TE on about 10-12% of offensive snaps.  Hurst had a good year for a Bengals TE, despite missing 4 games due to injury.

On the year he had 65 receptions for 555 yards, 3 TD, 8.55 yds/rec with 33 1st downs. Basically, he moved the chains every other time he touched the ball.  If you project those numbers to cover the 4 games he missed, he might have had 78 receptions for 666 yards, 4 TD and 40 1st downs.

Uzomah on the other hand went down the tubes after getting his payday in NY  21 receptions for 232 yards 2 TD, 10 1st downs.  The only upside is an 11 yards per catch average.

(03-23-2023, 02:08 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I believe more than anything they are looking for a well rounded TE which is what they had in Uzomah and Hurst. Their skillsets fit really well with what this offense does and they are both sure handed receivers that can make the tough catch and that look for yards after catch. With that said they are really good blockers as well and that is crucially important. I feel their are a number of TEs that fit that billing in this draft.

Probably correct. Durham and Strange fit this big time and can be had in the mid rounds pretty sure. 

I really like Whyle's upside though.

(03-23-2023, 11:14 AM)BengalBob Wrote: I don't understand why some on here would invest a 1st round pick on a  position that is probably the LEAST important (TE) for the Bengals offense when this draft is chock full of them.

They must go BPA in round 1 and pick up Laporta in round 2.

Protecting Joe Burrow is not the LEAST important to me and Washigton would help do this very thing while still being a massive safety valve target in the passing game.

But am fine with whatever the team does, they've been slaying to in FA and draft since Zac has arrived.  

(03-23-2023, 02:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that is completely by design in his offensive system, as he only targets the TE on about 10-12% of offensive snaps.  Hurst had a good year for a Bengals TE, despite missing 4 games due to injury.

On the year he had 65 receptions for 555 yards, 3 TD, 8.55 yds/rec with 33 1st downs. Basically, he moved the chains every other time he touched the ball.  If you project those numbers to cover the 4 games he missed, he might have had 78 receptions for 666 yards, 4 TD and 40 1st downs.

Uzomah on the other hand went down the tubes after getting his payday in NY  21 receptions for 232 yards 2 TD, 10 1st downs.  The only upside is an 11 yards per catch average.

And they've not had the OL under ZT that lets loose a TE in this offense as they've kept those guys in to block. Not to mention having the top 1-2 receiving groups in the NFL and there's only so many balls to go around.

Once the OL started to gel this season along defenses taking away the deep ball with 2 high S we all saw just how good a year Hurst really had.

(03-23-2023, 10:49 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: We have not had a real impactful TE under Taylor, CJ had one year rhat pout him probably top 15 and Hurst had middle of road stats as a TE, FACT.

why do the bengals need a top 10 tight end when they have the best WR duo and trio in the league?

all you need is a good blocker who has decent athleticism and good hands to get 400+ yards

(03-23-2023, 02:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that is completely by design in his offensive system, as he only targets the TE on about 10-12% of offensive snaps.  Hurst had a good year for a Bengals TE, despite missing 4 games due to injury.

On the year he had 65 receptions for 555 yards, 3 TD, 8.55 yds/rec with 33 1st downs. Basically, he moved the chains every other time he touched the ball.  If you project those numbers to cover the 4 games he missed, he might have had 78 receptions for 666 yards, 4 TD and 40 1st downs.

Uzomah on the other hand went down the tubes after getting his payday in NY  21 receptions for 232 yards 2 TD, 10 1st downs.  The only upside is an 11 yards per catch average.

Thank you! I am not sure how to make it any clearer to people that role of the TE within this offense is relative to output. Blocking by the TE may be more important than receiving output. However, what is expected in receiving is a sure handed player that can make the tough catch and look for yards after the catch. They must have the football IQ to be able to find the soft spot in a zone and make themselves available to the QB. However, the receiving duties are still limited by the scheme.

(03-23-2023, 02:08 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I believe more than anything they are looking for a well rounded TE which is what they had in Uzomah and Hurst. Their skillsets fit really well with what this offense does and they are both sure handed receivers that can make the tough catch and that look for yards after catch. With that said they are really good blockers as well and that is crucially important. I feel their are a number of TEs that fit that billing in this draft.

Almost have to go that route. And I think if pressed, they value blocking slightly more than receiving.

(03-23-2023, 01:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This, plus Wright played against top competition at RT. He just fits what we need to a T.


Well I mean, doesn't matter how big or strong an OL is if they are caught off guard on a certain play which is what I assume happened
when he did get bullrushed a few times. When Darnell Wright is ready and prepared pre snap, he dominates everybody. DaWand Jones 
fits us to a point, big dude, tough to get around and fits a Gap scheme which I assume we will run with Orlando's addition.

Bergeron is a mean, nasty sumbitch in the run game too who I really like. Not as big on Anton Harrison as I think he is more for a RPO
type of Offense and being a LT which we now have. Harrison is a bit finesse for my liking even if he is really good.

I am not really looking at LT's only want a RT. I do not really trust Pollack enough to draft a LT to play RT. Even with coaching excluded all players can not make that switch to the other side so it is a gamble. With Orlando on the team another LT would be unless if he cannot make the switch maybe move the guy to guard but we do not need a guard our hole is at RT and Volson will be ok at LG if he can improve some.

(03-23-2023, 02:24 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I am not really looking at LT's only want a RT. I do not really trust Pollack enough to draft a LT to play RT. Even with coaching excluded all players can not make that switch to the other side so it is a gamble. With Orlando on the team another LT would be unless if he cannot make the switch maybe move the guy to guard but we do not need a guard our hole is at RT and Volson will be ok at LG if he can improve some.

Bergeron played RT and LT at Syracuse. I think he is built to play RT in the NFL. Carries the proper demeanor and everything to be a really good one at the position.

(03-23-2023, 02:26 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Bergeron played RT and LT at Syracuse. I think he is built to play RT in the NFL. Carries the proper demeanor and everything to be a really good one at the position.

How much RT his freshman year like J Williams or like 2 or 3 years? I watch some of Bergeron tape he did look pretty strong. I liked a lot of tape on Darnell as well I just hope we get that RT spot filled with a healthy body that can last a rookie contract. We are pretty solid from LT to RG with Volson being the only questionable guy.

(03-23-2023, 02:04 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: those targets to receptions isnt ideal. at all. Especially for this offense

Ok. The point isn't the catch percentage. That's the player/scheme that was ran.
My point is that a TE can come in and be a solid contributor as a rookie, which Gresham was.
Eifert put up 445 yards and 2 TDs at a 65% catch percentage his rookie season.
I think you're worrying too much about whether a rookie TE can contribute, but if they can block well and make a decent amount of catches in the passing game, they'll contribute enough IMO.

(03-23-2023, 12:24 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Drafting a TE round 1 is a horrible decision.

Knowing how the bengals draft, they typically draft 1 year ahead. CB (Awuzie),  DE (Hendrickson), DT (Reader), LB (Wilson) are all on there last year. Those are the best players on D!

I would bet a large amount of money they go CB or D Line. Those positions are far more important than our 5th option TE (3 wr and rb). Our TE get about 400-500 yards in our offense. Burrow could have made Uzomah or Hurst a 1,000 receiver but we just don’t throw to TE much when you have 3 stud receivers and Joe Mixon.


Personally I want a RT, but if one doesn’t match up for the value, go CB, DE or DT.

Tee Higgins contract is up as well. Would love to get a Reader, Hendrickson, or Awuzie type talent at #28  but not counting on 27 teams passing on these type guys. 

Not going to buy the Bengals letting Logan walk and expect him to be a priority.

If every team grabs OL, DL, and DB's early and you just follow suit ?  You will give them the best at those positions and then the best at other positions and you will get 2nd fiddle with each round.  

Think you have to grab elite talent and that will happen by not following suit. I 100% always say OL or DL so its an odd opinion for me. But the Bengals usually draft so much higher where those players can be had with more certainty.   

(03-23-2023, 02:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ok. The point isn't the catch percentage. That's the player/scheme that was ran.
My point is that a TE can come in and be a solid contributor as a rookie, which Gresham was.
Eifert put up 445 yards and 2 TDs at a 65% catch percentage his rookie season.
I think you're worrying too much about whether a rookie TE can contribute, but if they can block well and make a decent amount of catches in the passing game, they'll contribute enough IMO.

bengals are in win now mode. A first round selection on a good blocking TE with 400 yard potential isnt worth the selection IMO

(03-23-2023, 02:39 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: bengals are in win now mode. A first round selection on a good blocking TE with 400 yard potential isnt worth the selection IMO

So what's your solution?

The FAs have been picked pretty clean.
The longer you wait in the draft, the more difficult it is to get an immediate contributor.
Your best bet to get an immediate contributor at TE is Pick #28.

The Bengals MIGHT be able to find a guy left in FA, but are they really going to instill any confidence of having a "win-now" TE

You might say a Day 2 TE is going to be fine, but you won't necessarily know who will fall all the way to the 2nd round selection.
The only guys I see as potential immediate starter TEs in the draft are Washington, Mayer, Musgrave, Kincaid (only really in a big slot type role though), Kraft, and LaPorta.
If you wait until 2nd round selection and teams knowing you desperately need a TE, it's possible all those guys are gone by that 2nd round selection.
There are other guys I like as TE2-caliber guys after those guys, but none of which I would be confident in being a solid starter.

(03-23-2023, 01:57 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I was watching a film breakdown of the senior bowl practice tape it happened 2 or 3 times within an hour that is a concern to me. If we choose the other dude cool I will root for the guy. But I can still have an opinion of which I like better. Or at least we use to have this choice in America not so sure anymore.

Watching practice tape... well we all stand corrected.  I guess all those analysts predicting him to go as high as #14 missed that tape... They probably only watched his actual GAME tape that showed him handling multiple 1st Round draft picks over and over in the most talented conference.  But sure, take another guy that refuses to test (we have had so much luck with these) and projected to go lower.  

(03-23-2023, 02:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: why do the bengals need a top 10 tight end when they have the best WR duo and trio in the league?

all you need is a good blocker who has decent athleticism and good hands to get 400+ yards

Doubt Washington would be a top 10 TE in NFL but think he is exactly the type TE the Bengals need.  

Unless they plan on replacing Tee with a TE, then need to focus on a route runner and top 10 guy imo. Yet suspect that is not their plan

Those skeptical should remember Zac took Sample with an early pick